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Loren Michael
Guest
is pedophilia explicitely banned in the bible? if so, where and how?
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Solo
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Any sexual acts outside of marriage is adultery, and is against God's Word. Fornication is expressly forbidden by the scriptures, and pedophilia is fornication. The laws of those in authority over a culture are to be obeyed by the populace or the Word is not being followed therefore pedophilia is forbidden.
19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, 20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, 21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God. Galatians 5:19-21
19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, 20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, 21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God. Galatians 5:19-21
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Rick W
Guest
I think we'll be battling that question in the future and perhaps sooner than we'd like. Right now the term means as we understand it, sex with minors or underage children.
I seriously believe the term will be cut apart, scutinized, diced and sliced to mean something else with conditions attached such as the questions of age of consent, tolerance to that form of sexual preference and of course, love.
Those having a well defined understanding of the term today may very well find themselves repulsed by what may come in the future. After all, we're teaching 10 year olds about all forms of sexual behavior both heterosexual and homosexual in public schools today. These kids are our future and exposure at such an early age may very well instill a much more tolerant view toward sex with kids. The 10 year olds today will be the rebels against current social custom tomorrow in a matter of a few years.
I seriously believe the term will be cut apart, scutinized, diced and sliced to mean something else with conditions attached such as the questions of age of consent, tolerance to that form of sexual preference and of course, love.
Those having a well defined understanding of the term today may very well find themselves repulsed by what may come in the future. After all, we're teaching 10 year olds about all forms of sexual behavior both heterosexual and homosexual in public schools today. These kids are our future and exposure at such an early age may very well instill a much more tolerant view toward sex with kids. The 10 year olds today will be the rebels against current social custom tomorrow in a matter of a few years.
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Loren Michael
Guest
thank you for the clarification.
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Rick W
Guest
Sexual immorality
This one has been turned, twisted and shaped to mean anything else that doesn't stand in the way of current social tolerance. In one forum one poster simply defined it as rape and adultery while married. Nothing else applied.
Pedophilia still comes across today as something undesirable to put it very lightly, biblical or not. Currently even those who disclaim the existence of God are still avidly opposed to pedophilia. Yet, there's a slight opposition to the use of the term on the horizon citing love and permission by the minor. As opposition is pressed normalization will occur as society hears about special situations and circumstances enough times that the word pedophilia will no longer incited the reaction we see today. In short, people will become numb to the stimuli allowing opposition to press more deeply.
In the name of love, personal preference, equality and tolerance the age of consent will be attacked again and again. Stories of children being emotionally hurt by current thinking because they can't "be" with the one/s they love will eventually take front and center to work on the heart strings of a sympathetic society.
Don't think so?
Heck, I've lived a time when "shacking up" was something to be abhored. But today "co-habitation" is so common it doesn't even raise an eyebrow. And some day, if one lives long enough, you too will be viewed as behind-the-times, an old fogey or even ....... bigoted. <gasp!>
:wink:
This one has been turned, twisted and shaped to mean anything else that doesn't stand in the way of current social tolerance. In one forum one poster simply defined it as rape and adultery while married. Nothing else applied.
Pedophilia still comes across today as something undesirable to put it very lightly, biblical or not. Currently even those who disclaim the existence of God are still avidly opposed to pedophilia. Yet, there's a slight opposition to the use of the term on the horizon citing love and permission by the minor. As opposition is pressed normalization will occur as society hears about special situations and circumstances enough times that the word pedophilia will no longer incited the reaction we see today. In short, people will become numb to the stimuli allowing opposition to press more deeply.
In the name of love, personal preference, equality and tolerance the age of consent will be attacked again and again. Stories of children being emotionally hurt by current thinking because they can't "be" with the one/s they love will eventually take front and center to work on the heart strings of a sympathetic society.
Don't think so?
Heck, I've lived a time when "shacking up" was something to be abhored. But today "co-habitation" is so common it doesn't even raise an eyebrow. And some day, if one lives long enough, you too will be viewed as behind-the-times, an old fogey or even ....... bigoted. <gasp!>
:wink:
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Rick W
Guest
Vic said:
If so then it won't be long getting to the States or Canada. We've yet to be bombarded by it's artillery (the news media) in preparation for a major attack.
I'm wondering if it's still termed pedophilia though. Usually a new word is used to mask what's underneath. Pro-pedophilia won't cut it.
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Rick W
Guest
LOL!!!
Here we go:
"intergenerational intimacy."
But that's a bit much for the tongue. They'll need something less academic I think.
http://www.boundless.org/2001/regulars/ ... 00582.html
Rumblings, a couple or 3 years ago.
http://theroadtoemmaus.org/RdLb/22SxSo/ ... PAPedo.htm
I've found nothing yet about Europe. Gotta dig more.
Here we go:
"intergenerational intimacy."
But that's a bit much for the tongue. They'll need something less academic I think.
http://www.boundless.org/2001/regulars/ ... 00582.html
Rumblings, a couple or 3 years ago.
http://theroadtoemmaus.org/RdLb/22SxSo/ ... PAPedo.htm
I've found nothing yet about Europe. Gotta dig more.
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Rick W
Guest
Again, about a year and a half old.
I'm tired of being forced into the shadows by society
Less chance if the word pedophile is used.
But, we'll see.
I'm tired of being forced into the shadows by society
Less chance if the word pedophile is used.
But, we'll see.
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Loren Michael
Guest
purely playing the devil's advocate here, but what is (if there is one) the general christian rationale for being against pedophilia? it seems like if the two people involved were married, it would be all right in the eyes of god.
i don't mean to offend anyone or anything, i'd just like to know where everyone is coming from.
i don't mean to offend anyone or anything, i'd just like to know where everyone is coming from.
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SputnikBoy
Guest
Loren Michael said:
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Rick W
Guest
Yes SputnikBoy, it's a touchy subject. Why? Because even non-christians know it's wrong. Well, right now anyway. So a pro-pedophile stance would get rubbutal not only from the christian community but from most of the secular community also.
I agree also that Loren Michael's question is a valid one and for now I don't think it's a pro pedophile question used as an attack on christianity's sense of morality.
And no, I find nothing direct or specific in the bible except God's Word would have us save sexual relations for the wedding bed. So marriage becomes the issue but then I don't think even that will matter when polygamy/polyandry becomes the issue of the day. Christians will be hard put to hold their ground solely by scripture for the purity of the wedding bed. I've lived in Utah where polygamy isn't prosecuted until something is brought to public attention through pedophilia-like behavior among the practicing polygamist. And that only when abuse is cited.
For now christian and non-christians alike are in accord with pedophilia. For now. But that will change. So, why is it that time will prove to be the governing factor on this issue? Like I said, those here that are non-christian will have to accept pedophelia sooner or later or side with the christian in the stuggle against the practice.
Pedophilia will come. And those with a current morality that doesn't include it will have to make up their minds if they will change their ideas of right and wrong, their moral standard, concerning the issue when the time comes.
I agree also that Loren Michael's question is a valid one and for now I don't think it's a pro pedophile question used as an attack on christianity's sense of morality.
And no, I find nothing direct or specific in the bible except God's Word would have us save sexual relations for the wedding bed. So marriage becomes the issue but then I don't think even that will matter when polygamy/polyandry becomes the issue of the day. Christians will be hard put to hold their ground solely by scripture for the purity of the wedding bed. I've lived in Utah where polygamy isn't prosecuted until something is brought to public attention through pedophilia-like behavior among the practicing polygamist. And that only when abuse is cited.
For now christian and non-christians alike are in accord with pedophilia. For now. But that will change. So, why is it that time will prove to be the governing factor on this issue? Like I said, those here that are non-christian will have to accept pedophelia sooner or later or side with the christian in the stuggle against the practice.
Pedophilia will come. And those with a current morality that doesn't include it will have to make up their minds if they will change their ideas of right and wrong, their moral standard, concerning the issue when the time comes.
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Loren Michael
Guest
okay, direct question, i'm going to catch flack for this, i'm sure, but...
why is pedophilia wrong?
i know why i feel that it is wrong, but [anticipating oxymoron joke here] i have a very nonreligious set of morals.
i'm curious as to where other people are coming from when weighing on this subject. the bible makes no mention of it, so it at least seems like it is outside the scope of christian morality (it being derived from the bible).
again, no offense intended. i'm just genuinly curious on the method people use to weigh in on a subject like this.
why is pedophilia wrong?
i know why i feel that it is wrong, but [anticipating oxymoron joke here] i have a very nonreligious set of morals.
i'm curious as to where other people are coming from when weighing on this subject. the bible makes no mention of it, so it at least seems like it is outside the scope of christian morality (it being derived from the bible).
again, no offense intended. i'm just genuinly curious on the method people use to weigh in on a subject like this.
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Rick W
Guest
Well put Loren Michael.
None taken.
I could say it may come from the fact that in ancient days parents decided for their child who they would marry. While this is/was Jewish custom it follows that the Jewish community understood that the child could not make that decision for themselves as a pro-pedophile may advocate. And I think this may very well be the ultimate difference, who makes that decision, the legal parent/guardian or the child themselves.
And one must remember the parents had a lot more authority with their children back then than they do today.
But here again, those children weren't having sex before the wedding either. And it was at an age agreed upon by ancient Jewish law. So again, purity of the wedding bed comes up.
Admittedly I don't know, I've not studied the matter as to a bible study so all I have to offer is guesswork. Sorry.
Yet, there's something about sexual immorality backstage that I can't deny and may well indeed come to be acknowledged. What that is I'm not yet aware of but it's there. (again: sex before marriage???) In the meantime I'm taking the stance against pedophelia.
Loren Michael said:
None taken.
I could say it may come from the fact that in ancient days parents decided for their child who they would marry. While this is/was Jewish custom it follows that the Jewish community understood that the child could not make that decision for themselves as a pro-pedophile may advocate. And I think this may very well be the ultimate difference, who makes that decision, the legal parent/guardian or the child themselves.
And one must remember the parents had a lot more authority with their children back then than they do today.
But here again, those children weren't having sex before the wedding either. And it was at an age agreed upon by ancient Jewish law. So again, purity of the wedding bed comes up.
Admittedly I don't know, I've not studied the matter as to a bible study so all I have to offer is guesswork. Sorry.
Yet, there's something about sexual immorality backstage that I can't deny and may well indeed come to be acknowledged. What that is I'm not yet aware of but it's there. (again: sex before marriage???) In the meantime I'm taking the stance against pedophelia.
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AHIMSA
Guest
I would say pedophillia is wrong because children are not of an age where they can fully understand what sexuality is, they are purely innocent and naive of their own sexual capabilities. I think pedophiles often prey on this state of innocence and derive a pleasure from dominating a weak and innocent child...from deriving sexual pleasure from a being that has not yet awakened to his or her sexuality.
So there can not be consent in this matter, for the child does not know what he or she is really consenting too.
However, the issue becomes more blurred when we reach pubescent pre-teens, who are in the "in-between stage", our young persons who have progressed through puberty at a very young age. Here I think the issue is that consent is a very hard issue to discern when there is such an age gap because adults are seen by those significanly younger as persons of authority. Which is why it is neccessary to set a reasonable age of consent where the issue of consent is less ambiguous.
So there can not be consent in this matter, for the child does not know what he or she is really consenting too.
However, the issue becomes more blurred when we reach pubescent pre-teens, who are in the "in-between stage", our young persons who have progressed through puberty at a very young age. Here I think the issue is that consent is a very hard issue to discern when there is such an age gap because adults are seen by those significanly younger as persons of authority. Which is why it is neccessary to set a reasonable age of consent where the issue of consent is less ambiguous.