Perdition's Population Clock

[Beetow]

.
● Luke 13:22-24 . . And he went through the cities and villages, teaching, and
journeying toward Jerusalem. Then said one unto him, master, are there few that
be saved? And he said unto them: Strive to enter in at the strait gate; for many, I
say unto you, will seek to enter in, and shall not be able.

● Matt 7:13-14 . . Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is
the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. But small is the gate
and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it.

● Matt 22:14 . . For many are called, but few are chosen.

Webster's defines "many" as consisting of, or amounting to, a large but indefinite
number; while "few" is defined as consisting of, or amounting to, a smaller number;
viz: relative to many then, few is the lesser. Bear with me while I flesh this out.

According to the US Census Bureau: as of Dec 15, 2024 @ 12:08 pm New York
time, the resident population in the United States was approximately 337,561,005
with a death rate of approximately one every 10 seconds; which translates to an
average of 8,640 American deaths of all ages, races, and genders during just one
24-hour calendar day.

According to 2009 US Census data; roughly 27.3% of America's daily deaths were
under the age of 19, which would indicate that approximately 6,281 of the current
daily death rate per 24 hours are adults.

Giving the "many" the benefit of the doubt by limiting their maximum percentage to
51%, would indicate a minimum of 3,203 American adults transferring to perdition
every day: which translates to roughly 133 per hour.

That's a very conservative estimate as Christ didn't really specify exact percentages
to represent the quantities of "few" and "many".

Using the ratio of 3,203 condemned souls per 337,561,005 population: computing
the number of condemned souls worldwide from a currently estimated global
population of 8,088,815,294 people, would suggest something like 76,752 new
arrivals in the fiery sector of the netherworld every 24 hours; which translates to
roughly 3,198 souls every sixty minutes on the clock.

Yankee Stadium's football seating capacity is 54,251. At the rate of 3,198 souls per
hour, those seats would be filled in roughly 16 hours and 58 minutes. In other
words: by 10:58 pm tonight the stadium's seats would be maxed if the globe's daily
number of condemned souls started filing into the stadium at 06:00 am this
morning.

Christmas and New Year are even worse. A study done of 26 years of death
certificates shows that coronary fatalities are, on average, 11.9% higher on those
days than any other days of the year; with non-heart deaths spiking to 12.2%
higher.

If conventional Christianity's perception of Jesus Christ and the hereafter is correct;
then it's apparent that souls never stop cascading into the abyss in an endless
procession like the unbelievable millions of chickens passing annually through
Cargill, Sysco Corp, Hormel, and Tyson poultry processing on their way to Wendy's,
McDonalds, Carl's Junior, Jack in the Box, Burger King, Chic-fil-A, KFC, A&W,
Arby's, Dairy Queen, Panda, Taco Bell, et al; and to supermarkets and restaurants
all over the USA and wherever else those processors vend their meats. The
slaughtering and the butchering never stop.
_

 

[Beetow]

.
Through me; the way to the eternal city.
Through me; the way to eternal sadness.
Through me; the way to lost people.

Justice moved my supreme maker:
I was shaped by divine power,
By highest wisdom, and by primal love.

Before me, nothing was created
That is not eternal: and eternally I endure.
Abandon all hope, you that enter here.
The Divine Comedy
by Dante Alighieri
Inferno: canto 3, v.1-9

Dante's poetic epic is called a comedy because it has a happy ending as opposed to
a tragedy; at least for Dante anyway. The souls he and Virgil pass along the way
through the Inferno portion of Dante's odyssey will never, nor anon, have a happy
ending; hence the sign above the entrance: "Abandon all hope, you that enter
here."

Despair can be roughly defined as to no longer entertain the possibility that a situation
will improve or change. Well; down in the Inferno section of Dante's concept, despair
is a way of life. It's probably not much different in the real inferno.

When people first arrive, they likely start asking around to find out how long they have
to stay. It must be very devastating to encounter folk who've been languishing in the
fiery region of the netherworld since practically the dawn of Man.
_

 

[Beetow]

.
I have never seen the afterlife for myself. So then; I cannot speak about it as
somebody who knows what they're talking about.

But God has seen the afterlife for Himself; so when God speaks about it, He knows
what He's talking about.

It's really important to be aware that Christ was supervised; viz: he didn't speak for
himself; he spoke for God.

● John 8:26 . .He that sent me is true; and I speak to the world those things which
I have heard of Him.

● John 8:28 . . I do nothing on my own initiative, but I speak these things as the
Father taught me.

● John 12:49 . . I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, He
gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak.

● John 14:24 . .The word which you hear is not mine, but the Father's who sent
me.

● Heb 1:1-2 . . In the past God spoke to our forefathers through the prophets at
many times and in various ways, but in these last days he has spoken to us by His
son

So then, when people disbelieve what Christ says about the afterlife, they are
actually disbelieving God; and by doing so they insinuate that God is a dishonest
person of marginal integrity who can't be trusted to tell the truth.

Most Christians know all that without having to be reminded. So instead of outright
disbelieving what Christ says about the afterlife-- insinuating that neither he nor his
Father know what they're talking about --a number of Christians spin what he says;
viz: they tone it down in order to make it compatible with human sensibilities.

But human sensibilities are unreliable; especially seeing as how the source of
human sensibilities was the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. The problem
with a sense of good and evil obtained from the tree is that it's a natural sense
rather than an instructed sense.

For example: right off the bat the first couple concealed their pelvic areas. They did
that not because God expressed disapproval of full frontal nudity, but because their
intuitive sense of good and evil told them that their sexual parts are indecent. In
other words: their sense of propriety wasn't an instructed sense; it was a natural
sense.

Well; as a general rule, God is not offended by nudity; not even the full frontal
variety; and He has yet to issue a "thou shalt not" commandment forbidding it.
(Note that I said "general rule" cf. Ex 20:26)

In point of fact, God created Adam totally bare naked and left him that way; viz: if
God were truly offended by bare nakedness, he would have clothed Adam right
from the outset.

So when people tone down Christ's afterlife teachings in order to make them
compatible with human sensibilities; they exhibit their intimate connection to the
tree of the knowledge of good and evil. You see, though a number of Christians find
the thought of people suffering in a fiery hell repulsive and unacceptable, God
doesn't, no, not in the slightest. In point of fact; He's all for it. I know that's true
because Christ said so.

● John 3:34 . . For he is sent by God. He speaks God's words, for God's Spirit is
upon him without measure or limit
_

 

[hawkman]

The problem
with a sense of good and evil obtained from the tree is that it's a natural sense
rather than an instructed sense.

Who put the natural sense in the Tree ?

Do you really believe the natural sense was in the Tree ?

 

[Beetow]

But human sensibilities are unreliable; especially seeing as how the source of human sensibilities
was the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. The problem with a sense of good and evil
obtained from the tree is that it's a natural sense rather than an instructed sense.

"obtained from the tree" is best taken as an abbreviation of "obtained by means of
the forbidden fruit incident"

There was a time past when I sincerely believed the chemistry of that fruit was
responsible for their altered moral perception. But the woman was first to taste it
and when she did; nothing happened. Eve went right on unashamed in the buff as
usual and it wasn't till the man tasted the fruit that she became concerned about
her appearance.
_

 

[Who Me]

Could you explain what the point of this thread is?

Yes people are dying at a rate that is frightening.
Yes people are not hearing the gospel.
What are you doing about evangelising and what do you want us to do?

 

[Beetow]

Could you explain what the point of this thread is?

Just recently I ran across a couple of lectures on YouTube by a well-respected
expositor named Robert Charles Sproul. I had heard his name in the past but this
was my first encounter.

Anyway; he said: (in so many words)

Jesus taught that the majority is on a road to Hell-- DON'T water it down.
_

 

[Beetow]

.
FAQ: Since God created us the way we are; then He is ultimately responsible for
our conduct; right?

REPLY: Some years ago I went into a music store in San Diego and noticed that one
of its glass display cases contained a rather large variety of curious bottles. So I
asked the clerk what they were. He said they were bongs. You mean for smoking
dope? I asked. He replied: Yes; that is their purpose. So I responded: But isn't
dope illegal? He replied: Yes, dope is illegal, however we don't sell dope; we only
sell the means to smoke it. You see; the responsibility for smoking dope was on the
end-users of bongs rather than upon the sellers of bongs.

In a similar incident, I went into an electronics store to purchase a mobile CB radio
and noticed an array of devices in the display case that I didn't recognize. The clerk
told me they were linear amplifiers; which, he said, are devices for boosting a
standard 5-watt CB's signal strength. I asked the clerk if that was legal. He said no,
it isn't legal to boost the standard signal. However, he said, it isn't illegal to own
equipment with the capability to do so. In other words; the law placed the
responsibility for boosting CB signals on the end-user of linear amplifiers rather
than the sellers of linear amplifiers.

What I'm getting at is: God created humanity with the capability to make bad
choices. But at the same time, He created humanity with the capability to make
good choices too. For example:

"Then Yahweh said to Cain: If you do what is right, will you not be accepted? But if
you do not do what is right, sin is crouching at your door; it desires to have you,
but you must master it." (Gen 4:7)

In the forbidden fruit incident, Adam chose poorly. Does it make sense to blame
God for Adam's choice? No; Adam knew the risk going in; but proceeded anyway.
(Gen 2:16-17, 1Tim 2:14)

But you see: so-called "product liability" is a convenient way of blaming others for
our own failings. In other words: product liability's proponents insist that the
availability of things like forbidden fruit, bongs, and linear amplifiers constitutes
enablement. So these days instead of saying "The Devil made me do it; therefore
my conduct is his fault" now people say "I was provided the means to do it;
therefore my conduct is the provider's fault."

Many of the products under sinks and out in garages are toxic; so manufacturers
put warning labels on them. They do the same thing with electrical equipment,
power tools, and mechanical devices so people can operate them safely and avoid
injury. Now; placing those products for sale to the public constitutes enablement,
but they're assuming end-users are intelligent enough to read warning labels
and/or equipment manuals. If users ignore warning labels and the cautions printed
in manuals; it's their own fault for being stupid.
_

 

[Who Me]

Just recently I ran across a couple of lectures on YouTube by a well-respected
expositor named Robert Charles Sproul. I had heard his name in the past but this
was my first encounter.

Anyway; he said: (in so many words)

Jesus taught that the majority is on a road to Hell-- DON'T water it down.
_

I was always taught to write so that anyone can understand what your writing.

Clarity is important, don't assume everyone is on your wave length.

 

[Beetow]

.
● 2Thss 2:11-12 . . God will send them strong delusion, that they should believe
the lie, that they all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had
pleasure in unrighteousness.

In other words; there's coming a time when God's patience will reach its reasonable
limits, and He will personally, and deliberately, ensure that a certain category of
people be given no chance ever again to be spared the wrath of God.

Back when Noah was preparing the ark, no doubt his neighbors all mocked and
poked fun at him like one of those deranged souls that go around with a sandwich
board that reads: Repent; The End Is Near! But when the rain started, I bet those
very same neighbors panicked and tried to get Noah to open up and let them in.
But even had Noah wanted to; he couldn't. The hatch of the ark was sealed from
the outside: and God was the only one on earth who could open it-- He chose not
to.

● Rev 1:18 . . I am He who lives, and was dead, and behold, I am alive
forevermore. Amen. And I have the keys of Hades and of Death.

● Rev 3:7 . .These are the words of him who is holy and true: who holds the key of
David. What he opens no one can shut, and what he shuts no one can open.
_

 

[Beetow]

.
At some point during Jonah's nautical adventure, he spent some time in sheol
(Jonah 2:2) which he placed at the bottoms of the mountains. (Jonah 2:6)

Well, Jonah's fish was under the sea rather than under the mountains, and seeing
as how no part of a mountain is located in a fish's tummy, then we can be
reasonably certain that Jonah and his body parted company; implying that Jonah
wasn't alive in the fish for the whole three days and three nights reported by Jonah
1:17; which corroborates Jonah 2:9 that the prophet's body underwent putrefaction
and would've been completely destroyed had not God resurrected him in time to
stop the process from getting out of hand.

Jesus appropriated Jonah's experience to illustrate his own. Jesus predicted that at
some time during his three days and nights deceased, he would be in the heart of
the Earth. (Matt 12:40)

Well; Jesus' body was laid to rest on the surface of the Earth; so in order for him to
be down inside the Earth at same time, he and his body had to part company. In
other words: Jesus spent some of his three days and nights at the bottoms of the
mountains, i.e. sheol. And he too was resurrected in time to stop the process of
putrefaction from getting out of hand. (Ps 16:8-10 & Acts 2:25-32)

It's widely believed that when people die they cease to exist. Well; were that belief
a fact; then Jesus would've ceased to exist when he passed away on the cross. As a
result: he would not have been restored to life via resurrection, rather, via creation.

Jonah's experience proves that Jesus continued to exist out of body when he
passed away; and if he and Jonah did, then everyone else probably does too.

BODY COUNT UPDATE: 5 days have transpired since beginning the thread. If the figures
in post No.1 are within reason, then something like 383,760 new arrivals have
checked into the fiery sector of Hades since Dec 15, 2024.
_

 

[Whatever]

Mat 7:13 "Enter by the narrow gate; for wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and there are many who go in by it.
Mat 7:14 Because narrow is the gate and difficult is the way which leads to life, and there are few who find it.

These verses are part of the Sermon on the Mount where Jesus was speaking to Jews that came together.

Also there are 15 verses in Matthew, Mark and Luke where Jesus speaks about "This generation." That show He was talking a lot about what was going to happen to "this generation."
Mat_11:16; Mat_12:41; Mat_12:42; Mat_23:36; Mat_24:34; Mar_8:12; Mar_13:30; Luk_7:31; Luk_11:30; Luk_11:31; Luk_11:32; Luk_11:50; Luk_11:51; Luk_17:25; Luk_21:32.

Luke 13:23 Then one said to Him, "Lord, are there few who are saved?" And He said to them,
Luke 13:24 "Strive to enter through the narrow gate, for many, I say to you, will seek to enter and will not be able.

It is possible that the question was asked about "this generation of Jews,"not the whole population of the Earth.

Rev 7:9 After these things I looked, and behold, a great multitude which no one could number, of all nations, tribes, peoples, and tongues, standing before the throne and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, with palm branches in their hands

So, a great multitude that no man could number will be saved. It could be billions of people but I also think it will be a small percentage of all people.

Hebrews 2:10 For it was fitting for Him, for whom are all things and by whom are all things, in bringing many sons to glory, to make the captain of their salvation perfect through sufferings.

It seems to me that God's purpose was to only bring many sons to glory, not everybody.

Isa 14:24 The LORD of hosts has sworn, saying, "Surely, as I have thought, so it shall come to pass, And as I have purposed, so it shall stand

I know the context was about Assyria, but why wouldn't it also apply to everything God has purposed?

Isaiah 55:11 So shall My word be that goes forth from My mouth; It shall not return to Me void, But it shall accomplish what I please, And it shall prosper in the thing for which I sent it.

If God intended His Word to save everybody, it would accomplish what He pleases and prosper for the thing (purpose) which He sent it.

 

[Bruce.Leiter]

.
● Luke 13:22-24 . . And he went through the cities and villages, teaching, and
journeying toward Jerusalem. Then said one unto him, master, are there few that
be saved? And he said unto them: Strive to enter in at the strait gate; for many, I
say unto you, will seek to enter in, and shall not be able.

● Matt 7:13-14 . . Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is
the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. But small is the gate
and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it.

● Matt 22:14 . . For many are called, but few are chosen.

Webster's defines "many" as consisting of, or amounting to, a large but indefinite
number; while "few" is defined as consisting of, or amounting to, a smaller number;
viz: relative to many then, few is the lesser. Bear with me while I flesh this out.

According to the US Census Bureau: as of Dec 15, 2024 @ 12:08 pm New York
time, the resident population in the United States was approximately 337,561,005
with a death rate of approximately one every 10 seconds; which translates to an
average of 8,640 American deaths of all ages, races, and genders during just one
24-hour calendar day.

According to 2009 US Census data; roughly 27.3% of America's daily deaths were
under the age of 19, which would indicate that approximately 6,281 of the current
daily death rate per 24 hours are adults.

Giving the "many" the benefit of the doubt by limiting their maximum percentage to
51%, would indicate a minimum of 3,203 American adults transferring to perdition
every day: which translates to roughly 133 per hour.

That's a very conservative estimate as Christ didn't really specify exact percentages
to represent the quantities of "few" and "many".

Using the ratio of 3,203 condemned souls per 337,561,005 population: computing
the number of condemned souls worldwide from a currently estimated global
population of 8,088,815,294 people, would suggest something like 76,752 new
arrivals in the fiery sector of the netherworld every 24 hours; which translates to
roughly 3,198 souls every sixty minutes on the clock.

Yankee Stadium's football seating capacity is 54,251. At the rate of 3,198 souls per
hour, those seats would be filled in roughly 16 hours and 58 minutes. In other
words: by 10:58 pm tonight the stadium's seats would be maxed if the globe's daily
number of condemned souls started filing into the stadium at 06:00 am this
morning.

Christmas and New Year are even worse. A study done of 26 years of death
certificates shows that coronary fatalities are, on average, 11.9% higher on those
days than any other days of the year; with non-heart deaths spiking to 12.2%
higher.

If conventional Christianity's perception of Jesus Christ and the hereafter is correct;
then it's apparent that souls never stop cascading into the abyss in an endless
procession like the unbelievable millions of chickens passing annually through
Cargill, Sysco Corp, Hormel, and Tyson poultry processing on their way to Wendy's,
McDonalds, Carl's Junior, Jack in the Box, Burger King, Chic-fil-A, KFC, A&W,
Arby's, Dairy Queen, Panda, Taco Bell, et al; and to supermarkets and restaurants
all over the USA and wherever else those processors vend their meats. The
slaughtering and the butchering never stop.
_

Why are you bringing this topic up, Beetow? I suggest that you spend your time discussing the Bible alone instead of using the census and Webster's Dictionary. Bible dictionaries and lexicons are better resources than those, because they define and discuss the Bible based on its own meanings and teachings. This is true especially on a Christian forum.

 

[Beetow]

.
Certain Christian religions (e.g. Jehovah's Witness and Christadelphians; et al)
insist that when a human being dies, it goes completely out of conscious existence.

Their resurrection doctrine therefore is not in accord with the conventional meaning
of the word, but rather; a re-creation: which essentially implies that when Christ
died on the cross, he ceased to exist; viz: for three days and three nights, there
was no Christ-- neither in this life nor in the next. So in order to "raise" Christ from
the dead, it was necessary for God to create his previous existence back to
existence. In other words: according to the beliefs of some religions; the current
Christ is a second Christ; viz: a redux.

That belief of course assumes that Christ's soul died on the cross right along with
his body; which of course it didn't because assassins can't kill souls.

● Matt 10:28 . . Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul.

In other words: the soul doesn't necessarily perish along with the demise of one's
body. Not that it's impossible; it's just that only God can pull off something like
that.

● Matt 10:28 . . but rather fear Him which is able to destroy both soul and body in
hell.

The Greek word translated "hell" in Matt 10:28 is geénnee which is an entirely different
word than the word for hell in Luke 16:19-31. That word is hádee (a.k.a. hades) which
is borrowed from Hellenistic mythology to indicate the place of all the dead: both the
good dead and the bad dead regardless of age, race, religion and/or gender preference.
In point of fact, Jesus himself spent some time in hades while waiting for his crucified
dead body to be restored to life. (Acts 2:25-32)
_

 

[Beetow]

.
● Mark 9:47-48 . . If your eye causes you to sin, gouge it out. It is better to enter
the kingdom of God half blind than to have two eyes and be thrown into hell; where
the worm never dies and the fire never goes out.

Christ's caution and warning about the fire and worms didn't reveal anything new.
He simply reiterated information that had already been released by an Old
Testament prophet roughly 700 years before Jesus was born.

● Isa 66:22-24 . . From one New Moon to another and from one Sabbath to
another, all mankind will come and bow down before me: says the Lord. And they
will go out and look upon the dead bodies of those who rebelled against me; their
worm will not die, nor will their fire be quenched, and they will be loathsome to all
mankind.

Apparently the fire will be open to the public as a sort of tourist attraction like the
skeletons of prehistoric beasts on display in the La Brea Tar Pits museum in Los
Angeles.

FAQ: The human body is organic. So then, how can it survive in eternal flame as
perpetual nourishment for those worms?

REPLY: The resurrection of the dead depicted at Rev 20:11-15 is a bit of a mystery
in that the chemistry of their bodies isn't revealed. They won't be immortal, that
much is for sure. But although the dead's bodies won't be impervious to death,
they will apparently will be made of a fire resistant material of some kind in order
to provide nourishment for the worms.

FYI: A worm that thrives in flame is pretty amazing, but not unreasonable. The four
inch Pompeii worm lives in sea water temperatures of 176° Fahrenheit: hot enough
to kill salmonella and sanitize an egg. So I guess if God could create a worm like
the Pompeii, it shouldn't be too difficult for Him to create worms that like it even
warmer.
_

 

[Beetow]

.
I sometimes get blasted by conventional Christians for discussing a depressing topic
like perdition at Christmas time. But they seem to forget that the afterlife is an
essential component of Jesus' gospel, and the very reason there even is a
Christmas.

Hell is not a place you want to be. If people down there could step on somebody
right now to get out; I can alomost guarantee you a good number of them wouldn't
hesitate to climb up out of there on the bodies of their own children.

People up here on the surface just don't appreciate how bad it is down there or
they would flock to Jesus for safety-- bellowing, yelping, shouldering, shrieking,
and stepping all over each other --like an insane crowd of holiday shoppers
stampeding through the doors of Macy's when they open for business on Black
Friday; they would trample everybody in their way just for a chance to grab Jesus'
garment and beg for protection.

● Matt 16:18 . . I will build my church; and the gates of Hell shall not prevail
against it.

Maybe the gates of Hell won't prevail against Jesus' church; but they'll certainly
prevail against everybody else if it's for real.
_

 

[hawkman]

● Matt 16:18 . . I will build my church; and the gates of Hell shall not prevail
against it.

Maybe the gates of Hell won't prevail against Jesus' church; but they'll certainly
prevail against everybody else if it's for real.
_

Explain your maybe if you don't mind .

Do you doubt Hell is real ?

 

[Beetow]

Do you doubt Hell is real ?

Posts 1,2,3,7,8,10,11,14,15, & 16 are all premised upon my solemn, honest, sincere, and unwavering conviction that Hell is a very serious reality and that the majority is on track to go there.

Explain your maybe if you don't mind

Most languages contain a variety of expressions that are used to present facts rather
than question their validity. Take for example the little word if like this:

If 2x4=8 then 8÷4=2. Well; no one familiar with arithmetic seriously doubts 2x4=8.

Here's another example; this time from the Bible.

"For if by one man's offense death reigned by one"

Is Paul telling us he doubted the truth of the forbidden fruit incident? No, his use of if
expresses logic rather than debate.
_

 

[hawkman]

Posts 1,2,3,7,8,10,11,14,15, & 16 are all premised upon my solemn, honest, sincere, and unwavering conviction that Hell is a very serious reality and that the majority is on track to go there.

I don't detect any doubt now that you mention it , maybe my gray cells are asleep today .

Most languages contain a variety of expressions that are used to present facts rather
than question their validity. Take for example the little word if like this:

If 2x4=8 then 8÷4=2. Well; no one familiar with arithmetic seriously doubts 2x4=8.

Here's another example; this time from the Bible.

"For if by one man's offense death reigned by one"

Is Paul telling us he doubted the truth of the forbidden fruit incident? No, his use of if
expresses logic rather than debate.
_

Ahhh , I see you speak the language of the Bard's . Maybe I will catch on soon .

 

[Beetow]

.
● Luke 16:25-26 . . Abraham said to him: Son, remember

The older one gets, the more memories we accumulate, and some of those
memories haunt us with terrible regret. However, people in Hell not only have to
cope with their bad memories, but also the good ones too, and I should think it's
remembering the good things they enjoyed in life that makes their situation only
worse in the heat.

If everybody was born and raised in Hell; and never once ventured out-- sort of like
the creatures +/- 6.8 miles below the surface of the Mariana Trench who never
see sunlight or blue sky --that would be the only life they've ever known, so they
wouldn't have a clue what it's like to really be alive.
_