Philosophy Fan

[Spockrates]

Hey,

I enjoy thoughtful discussions rather than debate. Is this a good forum to try out?

 

[Eugene]

Dear Stockrates, welcome to CF.net. You are listed as a Christian and as such I do not think the following rule will apply, and I reckon you should seek a certain forum on our site that applies to the rational discussion you seek whether it is the word of God, or current events. You can read the specific rules at the top of any individual forum as you click on to it; e.g., some allow debate, and others don’t. Blessings in Christ Jesus.

2.2: No active promotion of other Faiths is allowed:
You will not post any messages; links, images or photos that promote a religion or belief other than Biblical and historical Christianity (atheism is considered a "belief" for the purposes of this rule). Discussion of these doctrines are is fine, as long as the beliefs foreign to Christianity (as defined above) are not actively promoted or held in balance with orthodox Christianity. . . This is a Christian Forum as the name suggests.

 

[farouk]

Hi, how are you doing? good to see you here; God bless His Word to you.

 

[Spockrates]

Dear Stockrates, welcome to CF.net. You are listed as a Christian and as such I do not think the following rule will apply, and I reckon you should seek a certain forum on our site that applies to the rational discussion you seek whether it is the word of God, or current events. You can read the specific rules at the top of any individual forum as you click on to it; e.g., some allow debate, and others don’t. Blessings in Christ Jesus.

2.2: No active promotion of other Faiths is allowed:
You will not post any messages; links, images or photos that promote a religion or belief other than Biblical and historical Christianity (atheism is considered a "belief" for the purposes of this rule). Discussion of these doctrines are is fine, as long as the beliefs foreign to Christianity (as defined above) are not actively promoted or held in balance with orthodox Christianity. . . This is a Christian Forum as the name suggests.

Thanks, Eugene, for the advice. I'm here to hear what others believe. No promotion of anti-Christian ideas intended. Please tell me what you would consider such unwanted promotion.

 

[Spockrates]

Good to be here, Farouk. Thanks for the warm welcome.

 

[Eugene]

Please tell me what you would consider such unwanted promotion.

Wow, that for me is hard to define unless I would see it. If it doesn't mock Christianity, or attempt to make the word of God of none effect I cannot believe it is harmful, though I've read of philosophers suggesting rational thinking (Or testing everything if I've got it right) as a means of satisfactory life instead of God. I'm pretty sure you'll receive feedback on the subject and it should be interesting.

 

[Spockrates]

Wow, that for me is hard to define unless I would see it. If it doesn't mock Christianity, or attempt to make the word of God of none effect I cannot believe it is harmful, though I've read of philosophers suggesting rational thinking (Or testing everything if I've got it right) as a means of satisfactory life instead of God. I'm pretty sure you'll receive feedback on the subject and it should be interesting.

Thanks for the reply. I tend to question everything.

20 Do not treat prophecies with contempt 21 but test them all; hold on to what is good, 22 reject every kind of evil.

(1 Thessalonians 5)

​

Do you think questioning can be good, if the one asking the questions is sincerely seeking the truth?

 

[Doulos Iesou]

Hey,

I enjoy thoughtful discussions rather than debate. Is this a good forum to try out?

Hey Spockrates,

So you are a Philosophy fan huh? I wonder what positions you take in regards to the various fields of philosophy, I don't often see that discussed around here but it would be refreshing to delve into.

Thanks,
DI

 

[Eugene]

Do you think questioning can be good, if the one asking the questions is sincerely seeking the truth?

It can be if the action of faith is not subject to rational thinking for instance; how can I understand by fact something hoped for as substance else God make it real for me? Many question that which is of the kingdom, and yet without being born of God cannot see or understand that presented.

 

[Spockrates]

Hey Spockrates,

So you are a Philosophy fan huh? I wonder what positions you take in regards to the various fields of philosophy, I don't often see that discussed around here but it would be refreshing to delve into.

Thanks,
DI

Yes, a fan ever since I first asked, "Why?" I suppose every child begins as a philosopher, but many adults, who think they already know, are less so.

For wonder is the feeling of a philosopher, and philosophy begins with wonder.

--Socrates (Theaetetus)

​

I'm not really a partisan of any one philosophical discipline, but I'm willing to consider any if them. I do find Logic and the Socratic Method extremely helpful. What about you, Doulos? What do you think of philosophy?

 

[Spockrates]

Do you think questioning can be good, if the one asking the questions is sincerely seeking the truth?

It can be if the action of faith is not subject to rational thinking for instance; how can I understand by fact something hoped for as substance else God make it real for me? Many question that which is of the kingdom, and yet without being born of God cannot see or understand that presented.

But if only the Born of God can have faith, then doesn't that mean one does *not* need faith to become Born of God?

 

[stovebolts]

Hey there [MENTION=96920]Spockrates[/MENTION] !
Welcome to our little nook!

Love the play on words for your screen name!
Spock + Socrates
Logic + Philosophy

Personally I've always enjoyed G.K. Chesterton. I know he's not a great philosopher, but he does dabble in his own form of philosophy... as we all do in an odd sort of way don't you think?

I haven't read too much of Socrates. A snipit here and there is all. Still, I'm reminded of Bill and Teds great adventrure lol! So-Crates lol! Hey, what can I say?

Welcome!

 

[Spockrates]

Hey there [MENTION=96920]Spockrates[/MENTION] !
Welcome to our little nook!

Love the play on words for your screen name!
Spock + Socrates
Logic + Philosophy

Personally I've always enjoyed G.K. Chesterton. I know he's not a great philosopher, but he does dabble in his own form of philosophy... as we all do in an odd sort of way don't you think?

I haven't read too much of Socrates. A snipit here and there is all. Still, I'm reminded of Bill and Teds great adventrure lol! So-Crates lol! Hey, what can I say?

Welcome!

Thanks for warm welcome, Steve. A good source for getting to know Socrates and his Socratic Method is Plato's Theaetetus. It's actually a quick and entertaining read. There are several places online to read the dialog. Here is one:

http://classics.mit.edu/Plato/theatu.html

 

[Eugene]

But if only the Born of God can have faith, then doesn't that mean one does *not* need faith to become Born of God?

Rom 12:3 For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith.

To ensure the solution we read in Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God. My question would now be is how you believe you were born of God? Is it the visible product of change or philosophical rationalization?

The issue seems to be that we compare scripture with scripture instead of man’s thinking for who can know God but He who reveals Him to us? 2 Tim 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness.

"George Washington Carver once asked God to show him the secrets of the universe. However according to Carver, God started him out with something smaller - the peanut." To realize the great accomplishments George had did he depend on God for help, or his own thinking?
http://www.cbn.com/cbnnews/us/2010/february/george-washington-carver-master-inventor-artist/

 

[Spockrates]

But if only the Born of God can have faith, then doesn't that mean one does *not* need faith to become Born of God?

Rom 12:3 For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith.

To ensure the solution we read in Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God. My question would now be is how you believe you were born of God? Is it the visible product of change or philosophical rationalization?

The issue seems to be that we compare scripture with scripture instead of man’s thinking for who can know God but He who reveals Him to us? 2 Tim 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness.

"George Washington Carver once asked God to show him the secrets of the universe. However according to Carver, God started him out with something smaller - the peanut." To realize the great accomplishments George had did he depend on God for help, or his own thinking?
http://www.cbn.com/cbnnews/us/2010/february/george-washington-carver-master-inventor-artist/

Thank you for the biblical response, Eugene. It would seem, then that not only those born of God have the faith to believe, since everyone--not just those who are born of God--have some measure of faith. I guess then that those who have faith but are not yet born of God either don't have enough faith or don't have faith in the necessary object. Don't you agree?

To answer your personal question about how I know I am born of God, I'd say I don't yet know I am, as I don't yet know what your meaning is for that phrase. Please tell me, so that I may answer your question: What do the words born of God mean to you?

 

[Eugene]

To answer your personal question about how I know I am born of God, I'd say I don't yet know I am, as I don't yet know what your meaning is for that phrase. Please tell me, so that I may answer your question: What do the words born of God mean to you?

Thank you so much for your honesty. Having a measure of faith we have the ability to believe, but do we avail us of so great salvation? As we read, faith was a gift, and eternal life is also to them which partake. Acts 16:31 Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house, and 1 John 5:13 These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life . ., and 1 John 5:1 Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God . .

Simplified, James 2:23 tells us that Abraham believed God and it was imputed to him for righteousness. That is the exercising of the faith given him which seems to many opposed or wrong for we read in Proverbs 16:25, There is a way that seems right unto a man, but the end thereof are the ways of death. With rare exception men attempt to keep laws, sacrifice, or even set up religious works to attain communion with God but we read in Galatians 3:11 But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.

1 John 5:13 I write these things that ye may know that you have eternal life. By faith John 3:16 confirms this: For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. God can take us with a hungry heart and fulfill every answer or need in a moment of time; all we have to do is ask or call on Him. Rom 10:13-14 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved. How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed?

To be born of God is to belong to Him in Jesus. At that moment we know Him experimentally as our Father, and He sees and knows us as sons. May you be blessed in Christ Jesus.

 

[Spockrates]

To answer your personal question about how I know I am born of God, I'd say I don't yet know I am, as I don't yet know what your meaning is for that phrase. Please tell me, so that I may answer your question: What do the words born of God mean to you?

Thank you so much for your honesty. Having a measure of faith we have the ability to believe, but do we avail us of so great salvation? As we read, faith was a gift, and eternal life is also to them which partake. ...To be born of God is to belong to Him in Jesus. At that moment we know Him experimentally as our Father, and He sees and knows us as sons. May you be blessed in Christ Jesus.

Thanks for your knowledgable answer. Yes, I agree that faith is essential, and I'd like to hear more about that. But first, please tell why you believe faith is the gift about which Paul is speaking. Isn't it possible that grace or being saved, rather than faith is the gift, since the grammar allows such an interpretation?

8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.


(Ephesians 2)

​

 

[Eugene]

Please tell why you believe faith is the gift about which Paul is speaking. Isn't it possible that grace or being saved, rather than faith is the gift?

To me the gift is all required to have eternal life with God. He gave us the measure of faith, He gives us grace, and most of all He gave us His Son Jesus.

Romans 5:15 But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many.

Romans 6:23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

Ephesians 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God . .

James 1:17 Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and cometh down from the Father of lights . .

 

[Spockrates]

Yes, I can now see how all three are given. Thanks.

Regarding belief, or faith, I have several questions. Perhaps I should start a discussion thread so you and I and others may think it through together?

 

[Eugene]

Yes, I can now see how all three are given. Thanks.

Regarding belief, or faith, I have several questions. Perhaps I should start a discussion thread so you and I and others may think it through together?

Great idea. You might consider the Christian Talk & Advice forum where discussion and not debate is allowed. :waving