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Please read, is this Blasphemy?

S

scribble

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I have a friend, Jake. Jake and I have been going to the same church forever, believe in God, pray, have been baptised, etc. We were all on a school trip to Vatican City, Italy. Some kids were taunting him and trying to rip off his hat, and I could see he was getting mad. So he walked up further with me, and he then said to me in an angry voice, "**** the Catholic Church, **** the Pope." I was shocked by this cause we were always involved in church when we were younger. No sooner than 30 seconds after he said it, he told me that he had no idea what had come over him and why he said it and almost began to cry. I've asked many people if this is Blasphemy and most of the answers I've gotten by church members and pastors was that "it was not right, but it is as forgiveable as any other sin," and also that, "it does not state anywhere in the bible that saying such a thing against the church or pope is wrong."

Wisd. 1:6-7 "Wisdom is a spirit that is friendly to people, but she will not forgive anyone who speaks against God, for God knows our feeling and thoughts, and hears our every word. Since the Lord's spirit fills the entire world, and holds everything in it together, she knows every word that people say."

So please, I'm very concerned... Can he be forgiven?
 
scribble said:
I have a friend, Jake. Jake and I have been going to the same church forever, believe in God, pray, have been baptised, etc. We were all on a school trip to Vatican City, Italy. Some kids were taunting him and trying to rip off his hat, and I could see he was getting mad. So he walked up further with me, and he then said to me in an angry voice, "**** the Catholic Church, **** the Pope." I was shocked by this cause we were always involved in church when we were younger. No sooner than 30 seconds after he said it, he told me that he had no idea what had come over him and why he said it and almost began to cry. I've asked many people if this is Blasphemy and most of the answers I've gotten by church members and pastors was that "it was not right, but it is as forgiveable as any other sin," and also that, "it does not state anywhere in the bible that saying such a thing against the church or pope is wrong."

Wisd. 1:6-7 "Wisdom is a spirit that is friendly to people, but she will not forgive anyone who speaks against God, for God knows our feeling and thoughts, and hears our every word. Since the Lord's spirit fills the entire world, and holds everything in it together, she knows every word that people say."

So please, I'm very concerned... Can he be forgiven?
Click to expand...

Luke 17:4 And if he trespass against thee seven times in a day, and seven times in a day turn again to thee, saying, I repent; thou shalt forgive him.

Asking for forgiveness acknowledges a transgression.
And keep in mind the closer one gets to God the stronger the opposition will be to make one stumble or fall.
 
Thank you for your understanding, that passage really helped!

God bless you.
 
It would not be blasphemy. Blasphemy is a direct attack on God, cursing him. His statements are truly offensive to me as a Catholic but he has my forgiveness and I am sure God's if he is as remorseful as you say he is.

"it does not state anywhere in the bible that saying such a thing against the church or pope is wrong."
Click to expand...
'



I always find such statements interesting as they misuse the Bible, looking for explicit statements in scripture as if it is a set of do's and dont's rather than a guide for life that we can apply to any situation. There are many
passages that indicate that such inflamitory statements are wrong:

1 Pet 3
10: For "He that would love life and see good days, let him keep his tongue from evil and his lips from speaking guile;



James 1
26: If any one thinks he is religious, and does not bridle his tongue but deceives his heart, this man's religion is vain.

Phil 4
8: Finally, brethren, whatever is true, whatever is honorable, whatever is just, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is gracious, if there is any excellence, if there is anything worthy of praise, think about these things.

Scripture is to be applied, not a legalistic set of rules that cover every moral sitation.


Interestingly enough your post shows the natural understanding that saying such things is wrong, obvuscations of those who made the quoted statement above aside. Men have God's laws in their hearts (rom 2:14-16) and do know right from wrong. I post the passages not to increase his guilt but show him going forward that he needs to bridle the tongue, even when he may not agree with the theology of the Pope.
 
Another passage that I think applies from Romans 13:

7: Pay all of them their dues, taxes to whom taxes are due, revenue to whom revenue is due, respect to whom respect is due, honor to whom honor is due.

The context of this passage is not just toward people we agree with. I happen to agree with the Pope but would never use derogatory remarks about Billy Graham or Josh McDowell whom I disagree with on many points. Once again his remorse is accepted. I am just making a point to help him in the future.

The Pope has devoted his life to love and service of God. Even if we do not agree with him that is worth honoring.
 
I understand why you are posting passages, and I will be sure to pass these on to him. I can bet that he really will appreciate this. He hasn't forgotten this and brings it up almost every day and I can tell he wants to cry.

Thank you, God bless!
 
I see you are Catholc. Fulton gave the best advice on the other thread. He should talk to a preist so that he can recieve absolution and KNOW that he is forgiven. Confession is good for the soul it is said. How true it is.
 
This brings up yet another question. Is there a difference between absolution and confession? I was never really sure about that either. Sorry to be a pest!
 
scribble said:
This brings up yet another question. Is there a difference between absolution and confession? I was never really sure about that either. Sorry to be a pest!
Click to expand...

Your not a pest at all. I don't mind answering such questions.

Confession, penance, rconcilliation are all names for the sacrament. The sacrament has a particular form by which the sinner confesses his sin to the priest, admits wrongdoing and gives some expression of repentence. The final part of the process is called "absolution" where the priest assures the penetent that his sins are forgiven. " . The words of the priest are usually:

"God, the Father of mercies, through the death and resurrection of his Son has reconciled the world to himself and sent the Holy Spirit among us for the forgiveness of sins; through the ministry of the Church may God give you pardon and peace, and I absolve you from your sins in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit. Amen."

Very soothing words to say the least.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Absolution

Blessings
 
Ah, okay. I love to hear the preist say that last bit, it makes you feel good.

Thanks, May the Lord be with you.
 
thessalonian said:
"it does not state anywhere in the bible that saying such a thing against the church or pope is wrong."
Click to expand...
I always find such statements interesting as they misuse the Bible, looking for explicit statements in scripture as if it is a set of do's and dont's rather than a guide for life that we can apply to any situation. There are many passages that indicate that such inflamitory statements are wrong
Click to expand...
I added the bolding....

I could not agree with you more. I think we need to look at the Scriptures to extract principles, not a collection of rules. I am inclined to think that, as per Matthew 12 (the disciples picking grain on the Sabbath), the world is so rich and complex that "code / rule" based morality is simply unworkable.
 
Sounds to me like what he did was just a surge of rage he felt at the moment. He probably didn't even think about what he said at the critical moment and just wanted to get his rage out of him. Some kids can be jack#@%$# like that and taunt others, so he needed to do something. So when he said it, I doubt he even meant it, so I say he can easily be forgiven :)
 
It sounds like a venting of an underlying attitude toward authority and the Church to me. The kind that causes division if you know what I mean. So I don't think it is as simple as you say.
 
Final authority is in Almighty God & His Word, the Bible

'Ambassadors for Christ' are only authorised to pass on the message of the King of kings & Lord of lords

Christ's atoning sacrifice at Calvary opened the doors of direct communication to God - that's why God tore the veil of the Temple from top to bottom

Jesus told us to pray direct to the Father in His name - as in John 14-16



Phew: I didn't think I'd get more PC time today

The 'great & glorious gospel of the Lord Jesus Christ' offers full & free forgiveness for every sin, as in John 3, Romans 3, Galatians 2:15-16 & Ephesians 2:8-9,etc

Back to link thread @ the RCC confessional being unbiblical..

http://www.christianforums.net/viewtopi ... 81&start=0


Ian
 
You oughta hear what the clergy say about the Pope (especially the former Pope) when they are together and no-one is around. :lol:
 
:time out

I had to edit the original post and the one after it for questionable content. It's hard to read and not try to pronounce bad, four letter words. Not exactly suitable for a Christian forum. 8-)

:restarts game clock
 
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