Post Office Closures

[stovebolts]

Adjust the length of the jump! You KNOW he will go all out full throttle totopic

Ha ha, he was only at the bottom end of 2nd.... I'm gonna have to move a lot more dirt...

Ok ok!

totopic

 

[Rhea]

Rhea,
I said this a couple years ago, but if you want to save your post office, then start by sending one letter a week, and get your friends and family to do the same.

Our post office closed over 20 years ago. But we do mail letters, too. A lot.

Something has to give and there isn't light at the end of the tunnel. As more and more companies go electronic, less and less will be hand delivered in the mail.

except the goods you're buying.

Now, as far as closing post offices, that does not mean that they are going to stop delivering mail to your house.

as noted, not everyone gets home delivery.

It's really a win win for everyone. Our tax dollars are better spent and it helps the local economy.

usually, when people say this, they are making one enormous, honking assumption. That some for-profit will pick up the slack. But there's no reason to assume this is true - again, look at the rural electrification project.

In my neighborhood, there is no cell service. There is no cable service, there is no DSL service. So all those people claiming I can "just go internet" are making an assumption that is not true. I cannot. I've called to ask about it and the reply is that if I invest $14,000 for a repeater, I could get DSL. So, it is out of reach.

Easy to say the phone company can close down my line because I can "just get a cell". But I cannot. Easy to say I can just pay my bills online, but it is not so possible. These companies will only put in these services (they say) for housing densities of at least 15 houses per mile. While is utterly incompatible with farms. Cell companies will only add a tower for a certain density of receiving customers, also incompatible with farms in hilly areas.

The electricity would not have come out as a market force, either.

As far as the carriers, they keep their routes, but they'll make more because their route is further from the post office. It all works out and believe it or not, the Post Office is hiring...

They won't make more, they will deliver less frequently, if at all.

That reduces employment to part time, which cuts the postal workers income in half... I wouldn't want my wages cut in half.

It's not about charity jobs, it's about charity services. Doesn't matter if we cut your hours, it matters if people can get mail.

I am rural because i want to be.... I am pleased to be as far from government as i can be. I dont want other folks to pay to cover my mail expenses.

But they do, and they are.

I dont want the PO to close but i will adjust.

Will your elderly neighbors adjust? Is it worth putting people into homes or letting them lose touch with friends> To me it is not. I am happy to "gift" the post office to all by paying a little more than I need for my own use.

Around here the UPS driver knows everyone by name and they are not bound by the same restrictions as the USPS

If UPS could make money delivering letters, they would be doing it already. They don't, so who is it you think will start delivering letters?



Interestingly, the post office has asked for the following things to meet the budget without closing down:
The ability to better negotiate salaries
The ability to raise prices more than inflation (since their costs are mostly salary and therefore not related to inflation)
The ability to discontinue Saturday delivery.

I would rather do all of those things first than shut down rural post offices.

 

[stovebolts]

Hi Rhea,

Boy, sounds like your really out in the sticks! When we moved out to the country, I could only get dial up, and most of the time I was less than 20k because we were about 5 miles to the concentrator. On a rainy day, give it up... The data degradation over copper for that distance is just not sustainable.

We suffered with that for years until Sprint came into the area with a repeater, and we used a sprint card for a bit. It was expensive, but it was faster and more reliable than dial up. A couple years ago a guy set up a wireless network, so we hopped on board. It wasn't very stable at first, but he's working the kinks out. I actually checked into opening my own wireless internet company last year but decided not to because the numbers just aren't there for an investment return. But, for about $10,000 - $15,000 and some planning, it looks like it might be a viable option for somebody in your area. Basically you can get a T-1 for about 900 a month and if you set it up right, you can sustain about 50 customers on that line if you load balance it correctly. At $50 a month per customer, that's about $2,500 revenue a month.

As far as the rural post offices closing in your area. The sad reality is that the post office is loosing money on every letter they deliver. You can't run a business like that, it's just not practical.. They have tried several different things to drum up more business, but they are lacking. I know in Michigan they spent millions on a new facility in Pontiac Mi. that will save them a lot more money in the long run, so they are getting more effeciant, but it's just not enough as mail volume continues to drastically decrease.

You made a remark about cutting the postal workers hours to part time status. You just can't do that. The rural postal workers that are still left have taken a lot of pay cuts and many of them are currently working 6 days a week just to get their 40 hours in. This was done by consoldating routes and with the effeciencies from the new plant in Pontiac, it means less sorting at the local office. Many of the rural carries depend on that full time work to pay their bills, and if you drop them to part time, then what are they supposed to do?

 

[Rhea]

Boy, sounds like your really out in the sticks! When we moved out to the country, I could only get dial up, and most of the time I was less than 20k because we were about 5 miles to the concentrator. On a rainy day, give it up... The data degradation over copper for that distance is just not sustainable.

True that. Frustrating with online bill-pay, because the bank security times out before your screen updates. Many sites are just too graphics-heavy to ever load at all. Paying taxes online requires driving down to the library, loading onto a jump drive, driving home, doing taxes, driving back to library to get required updates, driving home again, installing, driving back to library to file.

Interestingly, I'm not all *that* far into the sticks, in my mind. But our "urban hub" is only 20,000 people so there's little brought there and nothing sticks out from it very far.

Basically you can get a T-1 for about 900 a month and if you set it up right, you can sustain about 50 customers on that line if you load balance it correctly. At $50 a month per customer, that's about $2,500 revenue a month.

I'm not sure one can just "get a T-1" at any location. Doesn't it require a landline feed at some point? And doesn't it require hard-wiring to the customers, or at least line of sight? I would have to lay 6 miles of line to get 50 customers....

As far as the rural post offices closing in your area. The sad reality is that the post office is loosing money on every letter they deliver.

Well, as I said, mine closed more than 20 years ago (I just tried a web search to see when, and nothing at all shows up, so it was probably pre-internet that it closed)

You can't run a business like that, it's just not practical..

The rural post office isn't about practical, nor was the rural electrification project - highly impractical. It was about access to services for people.

They have tried several different things to drum up more business, but they are lacking.

They are not allowed to raise their rates to meet the bills, they are limited to consumer price index raises. NO other business is stuck with this.

You made a remark about cutting the postal workers hours to part time status. You just can't do that. The rural postal workers that are still left have taken a lot of pay cuts and many of them are currently working 6 days a week just to get their 40 hours in.

There's no rule that says all jobs have to be full-time. What will the clerks do? Well, probably the same thing they will do when the office closes, right? So they may hire a different person to work part-time, while the old full-timer has to sell their house and leave the area. But if the post offices closes, the full-timer has to... sell their house and leave the area.

Again, it's not about charity jobs, it's about getting mail to people. If that takes a part time job instead of full-time, then that's the right thing to do.

In our town, for example, the clerk works mornings for us and afternoons in the next town. The bookkeeper works for three different towns, commuting a total of about 80 miles to get to them all. We know about part-time, it can be done and can even add up to a FT job with some creativity. If one post office is open M, F and another Tu, Th and and a third open maybe W, Sat. Voila, a full time job.

 

[handy]

Rhea,

I have to agree with you. In our community even if the post mistress loses her full time job...which she is going to no matter what...and doesn't wish to work part time, there are any number of people, including myself, who would jump at the chance to work part time, sans any benefits, just for a supplemental hourly wage.

The building is there and long since paid for. It's quite small and well insulated, so heating it isn't too much of a problem. For the price of the monthly electric bill, and a part-time hourly person, they could keep the post office open. The cost of keeping our post office open could be offset by closing a few more in the more urban areas that have far more options for mail delivery. More than offset as a matter of fact. By closing one post office in Meridian and one in Nampa and putting ours to maybe two afternoons a week...they would save a lot more money than closing just ours.


And, two afternoons of mail delivery a week would still provide for folks around here who are not on the Internet...not everyone around here is. We have a sweet deal for Internet, because our property just happened to be the best place for our ISP to put their tower...however, not everyone can pick up on their signal. Lot's of mountains around here.

And we all know dial-up isn't even an option anymore.

For the folks who don't have Internet for on-line bill paying, email, etc. even having the Post Office open two afternoons a week will enable them to send off their bills, mail a letter, receive a birthday card without having to drive 20+ miles, one way...that's a 40+mile round trip...

Also, about the Inn being a satellite...OK, maybe it can happen. Probably if they close the Post Office, it will. But, where are John and Tracy supposed to put everyone's mail? It's been over 80 years since the building was used as a post office. They are using their space for their restaurant and convenience store. Are they supposed to clear space for the post office now? And, who is going to sort the mail...it will still need to be sorted...will John and Tracy be paid to do that? Not saying that it can't or won't happen...just that it does put them on the spot of how to reorganize their space and time to accommodate this.

 

[stovebolts]

Well, it's going to be interesting regardless.

I know of one post office in our area that was going to get closed and consolidated with another city about 20 miles away, but after looking closer at the logistics it wasn't possible. My wife is a substitute rural carrier and is only slated one day a week at her home post office, but she picks up days here and there from the other smaller offices when they need some help. Anyway, the consolidation would have eliminated the need for her, so I suppose I'm coming from the outlook of somebody who has a financial stake in this whole thing.

One reason they didn't consolidate the offices was space. They didn't have enough room to combine both post offices. Also, a lot of the offices are rentals except the ones that they recently built and own.

Anyway, at the very least I would think that they would have to put up a big mailbox like the kind you see at apartment buildings etc. I know they have those in some of the rural areas out by me, so even if you did loose your post office, you would still have a box. Who knows though huh?

Rhea,
There are several T1 suppliers so you would just have to check around. Several were willing to pull it right to my house. Basically they provide the cabling to your location and the main router. How you distribute your bandwidth from there is your decision. It's pretty flat in Michigan, so one wireless tower can provide access to a lot of square miles. However, like Handy said, if your in the mountains you're talking a whole different game. You really have to get a map that shows elevation and over lay it with population. Each tower is going to run you about 3 grand or so if you get the good one so you'll have to figure out how many towers it would take to cover a specific area. From there, you would have to do a survey to see who would be a potential customer. Over 50 customers and your looking at another T1, which is another 900 bucks... So you can see depending on bandwidth usage, 55 customers could really cause you a delimna... It's one big balancing act.

 

[handy]

Anyway, at the very least I would think that they would have to put up a big mailbox like the kind you see at apartment buildings etc. I know they have those in some of the rural areas out by me, so even if you did loose your post office, you would still have a box.

Well, in our case, it would be just as easy to have the carrier put the mail in the boxes in our existing post office. Like I said, the building is paid for...if no one is working there, there would be no need to keep the electricity running, it's not like there is any bathrooms or running water in the place...no worries of freezing, broken pipes. If the mail is sorted down in Emmett, the carrier can just place the sorted mail in the existing boxes. One would have to buy stamps and packaging elsewhere, but that's not such a big deal...we're all used to having to go to town for supplies.

 

[Rhea]

However, like Handy said, if your in the mountains you're talking a whole different game. You really have to get a map that shows elevation and over lay it with population.

Yup. There is a reason there's no cell service here.

 

[handy]

Just for fun...here's the center of the controversy....cute, isn't it.

View attachment 2072

 

[reba]

cute real cute!

 

[stovebolts]

Ha! that's great Dora! Reminds me of some of the pictures where my Dad grew up in Northern Idaho.

Knowing the union, somebody would have to maintain that building and it wouldn't be the mail carrier. It will be very interesting to see if they actually shut down every post office they have slated, or if they will change their mind, like the one they were going to consolidate here, but decided not to for about the same reasons your describing.... Logistics.

It will be very interesting to see how all this sorts itself out. Keep us posted