Post-Trib Model Failure: "YOU" vs "THEY"

[NJBeliever]

1) I am not a pre-tribber. The classic, commonly advocated Pre-trib model is not a correct interpretation of Scripture.

2) Again, no one is actually addressing the Scriptural application that I assert. I welcome any responses or critiques in this regard. Saying this is a "straw man" is factually incorrect. Saying it's "semantics" is precisely what it is that I'm doing. Word matter and have meaning. Especially when it comes to Bible interpretation. God bless.

 

[warhorse]

1) I am not a pre-tribber. The classic, commonly advocated Pre-trib model is not a correct interpretation of Scripture.

2) Again, no one is actually addressing the Scriptural application that I assert. I welcome any responses or critiques in this regard. Saying this is a "straw man" is factually incorrect. Saying it's "semantics" is precisely what it is that I'm doing. Word matter and have meaning. Especially when it comes to Bible interpretation. God bless.

This is a strawman argument because you are posting a position that they do not hold, and then shooting it down. and defining who you and they are for everone else. it really doesnt matter who you or they are, because the position is laid out in front of you there in black and white.

Mathew 24v 29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
Oh and just for accuracy (they) in this statement is (all the tribes).

 

[Sam21]

While I'm with E. W. Bullinger on the rapture timing, I want to also point out that the Matthew passages deal with Israel (i.e. the elect) and when Jesus talks about gathering his elect he's alluding to a passage in Isaiah. Remember, before the Spirit was given, there was no church, so Jesus was talking to his brethren. And to also quote J. H. Allen, there are the elect of race (from a family, i.e. Israel) and the elect of grace. Too often the former, which are the ones Jesus is talking about in Matthew, is confused with the latter. (Don't confuse both elections with personal salvation--- one can be elect of race and not be saved)

And again, referencing Bullinger, the church is the dispensation of grace and a totally different entity from Israel. While the two are integral in God's plan, they can also be mutually exclusive of each other. And to think, unlike Bullinger, I do not take an ultra-dispensationist stand, but I do agree there are such divisions in history where we come to a covenantal crossroad as God reveals His plan and purpose--- the "age of grace" being where non-Israelite Gentiles are also included in the promises to Abraham.

However, despite my rapture timing position, the mere fact that this subject is debated so hotly tells me that for whatever reason scripture is not straightforward on it, but rather has to be deduced and prophetically understood as to its purpose --- the problem is that everyone and his brother believes that they have the right answer to their position. I am one of the few that step back and admit that considering all the sides have interesting arguments, that I may actually be wrong in my belief.

Jesus gave the return of Christ to His disciples and told those disciples to teach that doctrine to the church, there is an extra biblical idea that Jesus was actually describing Christ return for the nation of Israel, however Jesus Himself absolutely did not teach that, so I believe what Jesus taught, that He would return for the church after the tribulation. The reason this part of the bible is so hotly debated is because the bible clearly teaches a post-trib rapture but people will not let go of that false pre-trib rapture because they love it more than truth itself.

 

[warhorse]

Jesus gave the return of Christ to His disciples and told those disciples to teach that doctrine to the church, there is an extra biblical idea that Jesus was actually describing Christ return for the nation of Israel, however Jesus Himself absolutely did not teach that, so I believe what Jesus taught, that He would return for the church after the tribulation. The reason this part of the bible is so hotly debated is because the bible clearly teaches a post-trib rapture but people will not let go of that false pre-trib rapture because they love it more than truth itself.

Bullseye sam, you have nailed it.

 

[Eventide]

This is what happens when the mystery pertaining to the nation of Israel is ignored.. amillennialism and replacement theology abounds..

Israel is blinded in part until the fulness of the GENTILES be come in.. not very complicated but completely ignored by multitudes within Christendom.