Powerful Warrior Angels.

[JAG ..]

Where is the guarantee of this? Do you know there’s a verse in Corinthians where Paul writes that some of the members of the church, Christians obviously, have died because of their behavior? It did not end up well. There are conditions for God working things to do.

The Christian Church is not going to ever give
up and abandon the clear promise of God to His people
in Romans 8:28-30

which says:

28And we know that in all things God works for the good of those who love him, who have been called according to his purpose. 29For those God foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brothers and sisters. 30And those he predestined, he also called; those he called, he also justified; those he justified, he also glorified.

He had many daughters. They weren’t all born nine months later. From the description, it doesn’t seem to diminish his suffering.

The only point was that the period of time that Job suffered could have been a
short period of time. There are zero reasons to believe that it was a period of time
longer than say 9 months. Job's daughters have nothing to do with this short-period-of-suffering
possibility point.

I’ve counseled them. I can’t recall
them saying it was a good thing they were raped.

The promise in Romans 8:28 ff is not dependent on what the rape victims think at
any given point of time. In fact it's not dependent on what they think at any time
in their lives. They can go to their grave believing that God did not work for their good
within their rape experience and that would not mean that they were correct in their
conclusion. The clear and bold promise of God in Romans 8:28 trumps what any mere
human believes.

Peter thought they were christians as did the entire community. Peter said that they had “lied to the Holy Spirit” not they needed to get saved. We have no reason to think they weren’t. They were even talking to the Holy Spirit, odd for unbelievers.

But do you think we can simply conclude that when things don’t turn out well that the victims’ problem is that they weren’t christians?

There is no Bible verse that says Peter and the Christian community thought
that Ananias and Sapphira were true born again Christians. And there are zero
reasons why false Christians cannot lie to the Holy Spirit. There is no credible
reason to believe they were true Christians. And false believers can talk to God
as did their master Satan in the book of Job.

JAG

 

[Edward]

The Christian Church is not going to ever give
up and abandon the clear promise of God to His people
in Romans 8:28-30

which says:

28And we know that in all things God works for the good of those who love him, who have been called according to his purpose. 29For those God foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brothers and sisters. 30And those he predestined, he also called; those he called, he also justified; those he justified, he also glorified.





The only point was that the period of time that Job suffered could have been a
short period of time. There are zero reasons to believe that it was a period of time
longer than say 9 months. Job's daughters have nothing to do with this short-period-of-suffering
possibility point.

The promise in Romans 8:28 ff is not dependent on what the rape victims think at
any given point of time. In fact it's not dependent on what they think at any time
in their lives. They can go to their grave believing that God did not work for their good
within their rape experience and that would not mean that they were correct in their
conclusion. The clear and bold promise of God in Romans 8:28 trumps what any mere
human believes.

There is no Bible verse that says Peter and the Christian community thought
that Ananias and Sapphira were true born again Christians. And there are zero
reasons why false Christians cannot lie to the Holy Spirit. There is no credible
reason to believe they were true Christians. And false believers can talk to God
as did their master Satan in the book of Job.

JAG

WHat you are saying rings as truth in my ears.There's just too much scriptural support for what you say.
Psalm 91:9-10 Psalm 34:7Psalm 121:7-8 Proverbs 1:33 1Peter 3:13....

So as you can see, there's quite a bit of circumstantial evidence that the lady who was raped was in fact not a Follower.

And in fairness, let us suppose for the moment that the victim is in fact a Follower and child of God, some deep mystery of God's of why to allow that to happen?
Scripture promises us suffering on this earth in general, many tribulations for us to overcome.

I have wondered before if when these type of tragedies happen, is God allowing it to so it will be demonstrated to man where not following the Lord will take you too?

We also do not know if God did try to warn her in His still small voice (don't go through the park) and she didn't hear it or was not listening? Or maybe it's just the kind of suffering that the Lord will avish rewards upon her for that will be beyond comprehension good?

 

[JAG ..]

WHat you are saying rings as truth in my ears.There's just too much scriptural support for what you say.
Psalm 91:9-10 Psalm 34:7Psalm 121:7-8 Proverbs 1:33 1Peter 3:13....

So as you can see, there's quite a bit of circumstantial evidence that the lady who was raped was in fact not a Follower.

And in fairness, let us suppose for the moment that the victim is in fact a Follower and child of God, some deep mystery of God's of why to allow that to happen?
Scripture promises us suffering on this earth in general, many tribulations for us to overcome.

I have wondered before if when these type of tragedies happen, is God allowing it to so it will be demonstrated to man where not following the Lord will take you too?

We also do not know if God did try to warn her in His still small voice (don't go through the park) and she didn't hear it or was not listening? Or maybe it's just the kind of suffering that the Lord will avish rewards upon her for that will be beyond comprehension good?

Thank you for your comments and thank you for those 5 verses up there.
I just added them to my collection (I put them on 4 X 6 index cards.)

JAG

 

[Edward]

Thank you for your comments and thank you for those 5 verses up there.
I just added them to my collection (I put them on 4 X 6 index cards.)

JAG

Those came right out of my new Bible Promise Book. I just looked up protection and it has two pages of scriptures about protection! I like this book.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

The Christian Church is not going to ever give
up and abandon the clear promise of God to His people
in Romans 8:28-30

which says:

28And we know that in all things God works for the good of those who love him, who have been called according to his purpose.

So do you see the conditions for this promise or not?

29For those God foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brothers and sisters. 30And those he predestined, he also called; those he called, he also justified; those he justified, he also glorified.

You do realize that this is a promise to be made like Jesus, not have everything work out for good, right?

The only point was that the period of time that Job suffered could have been a
short period of time. There are zero reasons to believe that it was a period of time
longer than say 9 months. Job's daughters have nothing to do with this short-period-of-suffering
possibility point.

No way God restored many children in 9 months. No way.

The promise in Romans 8:28 ff is not dependent on what the rape victims think at
any given point of time. In fact it's not dependent on what they think at any time
in their lives. They can go to their grave believing that God did not work for their good
within their rape experience and that would not mean that they were correct in their
conclusion.

So you’d tell war victims and rape victims and crime victims that God will just work it out for the good. A poster here has his granddaughter or niece experience being robbed of her fruit stand, fruit and cash. Do you want to tell him to tell her that it all work out for her good? She’s hurting. Maybe that will comfort her. Tell her even if she never sees that promise you extracted fulfilled, it doesn’t matter. Just how much will you stand behind your statements?

The clear and bold promise of God in Romans 8:28 trumps what any mere
human believes.

The conditions as God sees them, must be fulfilled.

There is no Bible verse that says Peter and the Christian community thought
that Ananias and Sapphira were true born again Christians.

Yes there is!!! He didn’t talk to them like unbelievers but believers. He said they lied to the Holy Spirit. Unbelievers don’t even talk to the Holy Spirit. I think you don’t want them to be believers as it destroys your position.

You realize that if all things don’t work for your benefit, by your standard, we can say there’s then no reason why you were a believer, right?

And there are zero
reasons why false Christians cannot lie to the Holy Spirit.

He didn’t say they were false,

There is no credible
reason to believe they were true Christians.

Yes there is. Peter talked to them as christians.

And false believers can talk to God
as did their master Satan in the book of Job.

Who? Which false believer talked to God inthe Bible?

JAG

 

[Edward]

In today's world the lady should have been wearing a pistol.

Pistols are for when there's not time to pray.

 

[JAG ..]

So do you see the conditions for this promise or not?

You do realize that this is a promise to be made like Jesus, not have everything work out for good, right?

No way God restored many children in 9 months. No way.


So you’d tell war victims and rape victims and crime victims that God will just work it out for the good. A poster here has his granddaughter or niece experience being robbed of her fruit stand, fruit and cash. Do you want to tell him to tell her that it all work out for her good? She’s hurting. Maybe that will comfort her. Tell her even if she never sees that promise you extracted fulfilled, it doesn’t matter. Just how much will you stand behind your statements?

The conditions as God sees them, must be fulfilled.

Yes there is!!! He didn’t talk to them like unbelievers but believers. He said they lied to the Holy Spirit. Unbelievers don’t even talk to the Holy Spirit. I think you don’t want them to be believers as it destroys your position.

You realize that if all things don’t work for your benefit, by your standard, we can say there’s then no reason why you were a believer, right?

He didn’t say they were false,

Yes there is. Peter talked to them as christians.

Who? Which false believer talked to God inthe Bible?

There are zero conditions to be met in Romans 8:28-36
ALL born again Christians are called according to His purpose.
And Romans 8:28-36 fully applies to ALL true Christians.

The Bible clearly and boldly teaches that God works in all things
for the good of His children and the notion that God does NOT
work in all things for the good of His children -- is NOT on the table
for serious discussion in my world.

Regarding Ananias and Sapphira:
The points you made about that are repetitive assertions
not supported by any evidence, so there is no need for me
to address your assertions -- for example your assertion that
Peter talked to them like they were Christians is a pure bald assertion.
I could just as easily assert that Peter talked to them like they were
false believers. It is impossible to know for a fact if they were, or were
not, Christians. My point was: There is no reasons in the passage for us
to assume they were true Christians. Also its reasonable, if we are going
to do the "assume thingy" to assume that they were NOT true Christians
because the Holy Spirit did NOT make a way for them to repent and be
saved physically, but just the opposite, namely God killed them on the spot.
I do not believe God has ever treated one of His children like He treated
Ananias and Sapphira.

Any human being can lie to the Holy Spirit. Unsaved people can make
promises to God and them not keep them which is lying -- and this is
an obvious truth that does not need demonstration.

Regarding false believers talking to God in the Bible:
Saul was a false believer who talked to God. Saul was
a murderer who wanted to murder his own son for the
"crime" of eating honey. Saul tried to murder David.
Saul was a wicked man.
Saul claimed to be a believer in the LORD, but the LORD
put Saul to death for his evil wicked sins.

And Job's later children had zero to do with my point that
said there was no reasons to assume that Job's suffering
lasted longer than 9 months. Job's later children came AFTER
his suffering was over. So? So there was no time limit on how
long it took for God to give Job more children later in his life.

Closing point: There is no emotional-comfort or mind-comfort in
you interpretation of the Romans 8:28-36 passage. Your comfort
level would be greatly increased if you would rethink your approach
and your interpretation of Christendom's great Romans 8:28-36 comfort
passage.

God Bless.

JAG

[]

 

[Dorothy Mae]

There are zero conditions to be met in Romans 8:28-36
ALL born again Christians are called according to His purpose.
And Romans 8:28-36 fully applies to ALL true Christians.

The Bible clearly and boldly teaches that God works in all things
for the good of His children and the notion that God does NOT
work in all things for the good of His children -- is NOT on the table
for serious discussion in my world.

Regarding Ananias and Sapphira:
The points you made about that are repetitive assertions
not supported by any evidence, so there is no need for me
to address your assertions -- for example your assertion that
Peter talked to them like they were Christians is a pure bald assertion.
I could just as easily assert that Peter talked to them like they were
false believers. It is impossible to know for a fact if they were, or were
not, Christians. My point was: There is no reasons in the passage for us
to assume they were true Christians. Also its reasonable, if we are going
to do the "assume thingy" to assume that they were NOT true Christians
because the Holy Spirit did NOT make a way for them to repent and be
saved physically, but just the opposite, namely God killed them on the spot.
I do not believe God has ever treated one of His children like He treated
Ananias and Sapphira.

Any human being can lie to the Holy Spirit. Unsaved people can make
promises to God and them not keep them which is lying -- and this is
an obvious truth that does not need demonstration.

Regarding false believers talking to God in the Bible:
Saul was a false believer who talked to God. Saul was
a murderer who wanted to murder his own son for the
"crime" of eating honey. Saul tried to murder David.
Saul was a wicked man.
Saul claimed to be a believer in the LORD, but the LORD
put Saul to death for his evil wicked sins.

And Job's later children had zero to do with my point that
said there was no reasons to assume that Job's suffering
lasted longer than 9 months. Job's later children came AFTER
his suffering was over. So? So there was no time limit on how
long it took for God to give Job more children later in his life.

Closing point: There is no emotional-comfort or mind-comfort in
you interpretation of the Romans 8:28-36 passage. Your comfort
level would be greatly increased if you would rethink your approach
and your interpretation of Christendom's great Romans 8:28-36 comfort
passage.

God Bless.

JAG

[]

Guess you have made up your mind. The only thing I will say is that the truth is very comforting. It actually sets you free, as Jesus said it would. For those christians who insist that God is working out everything they experience to good, I say more power to you because you will have a very difficult time trying to figure out how somethings are good. It will be mental gymnastics that will bring no comfort and have no power because it will not be true. Jesus knew that all things would work to his good not because of mental gymnastics to make it so but because he fulfilled the conditions and it was clearly to be seen without any effort. This is scripture and it matches my experience as well and it is deeply satisfying. I know that if I fulfill his conditions, HE WILL fulfill his part of the covenant. It is wonderful and I highly recommend it. It is very comforting.

 

[JAG ..]

Guess you have made up your mind. The only thing I will say is that the truth is very comforting. It actually sets you free, as Jesus said it would. For those christians who insist that God is working out everything they experience to good, I say more power to you because you will have a very difficult time trying to figure out how somethings are good. It will be mental gymnastics that will bring no comfort and have no power because it will not be true. Jesus knew that all things would work to his good not because of mental gymnastics to make it so but because he fulfilled the conditions and it was clearly to be seen without any effort. This is scripture and it matches my experience as well and it is deeply satisfying. I know that if I fulfill his conditions, HE WILL fulfill his part of the covenant. It is wonderful and I highly recommend it. It is very comforting.

■ Thanks for the reply.

■ I don't ever *try to figure it out. I just rest by faith in Romans 8:28 ff
and in many other passages that clearly teach that God is in total and
absolute control of our lives -- right down to the small details eg
Jesus' statements about sparrows and hairs -- not a single sparrow falls
to the ground apart from the will of God and the very hairs of our head
are numbered. "So? So we cast all our anxiety upon Him and we don't
try to figure it out. That means no mental gymnastics for me.

"The *secret things belong to God" Deut 29:29

Best.

JAG

 

[Dorothy Mae]

■ Thanks for the reply.

■ I don't ever *try to figure it out. I just rest by faith in Romans 8:28 ff
and in many other passages that clearly teach that God is in total and
absolute control of our lives -- right down to the small details eg
Jesus' statements about sparrows and hairs -- not a single sparrow falls
to the ground apart from the will of God and the very hairs of our head
are numbered. "So? So we cast all our anxiety upon Him and we don't
try to figure it out. That means no mental gymnastics for me.

"The *secret things belong to God" Deut 29:29

Best.

JAG

"In all that you get, get understanding."
"Let he who boasts, boast in this, that he understands Me."
"My people perish for lack of understanding."

All of the writers of the Bible understood God. They asked him for wisdom and He gave generously and they understood and wrote of what they knew. God reveals the secret things to those He chooses. All of these want to understand and are willing to do the work to receive that understanding. It is preferable to ignorant trust by far.

 

[metalfangirl]

i heard a story like this one on youtube

 

[JAG ..]

"In all that you get, get understanding."
"Let he who boasts, boast in this, that he understands Me."
"My people perish for lack of understanding."

All of the writers of the Bible understood God. They asked him for wisdom and He gave generously and they understood and wrote of what they knew. God reveals the secret things to those He chooses. All of these want to understand and are willing to do the work to receive that understanding. It is preferable to ignorant trust by far.

There is no such thing as "ignorant trust" as a concept
to be found anywhere in the Bible. That concept was
originated by mere human beings and therefore carries
only the weight and force of mere human assertion.

Regarding the secret things: The fact that there is a body
of secret things that will never be revealed to any humans
in this life has been solidly established and is not arguable.
Deuth 29:29 is compelling: There are secret things that belong
to God. And in Acts chapter 1 the Lord Jesus told His disciples
that it was not for them to know, about certain truths.

Best

JAG

 

[Dorothy Mae]

There is no such thing as "ignorant trust" as a concept
to be found anywhere in the Bible. That concept was
originated by mere human beings and therefore carries
only the weight and force of mere human assertion.

Regarding the secret things: The fact that there is a body
of secret things that will never be revealed to any humans
in this life has been solidly established and is not arguable.
Deuth 29:29 is compelling: There are secret things that belong
to God. And in Acts chapter 1 the Lord Jesus told His disciples
that it was not for them to know, about certain truths.

Best

JAG

People who believe something they didn’t look into that isn’t true have an ignorant trust in what they believe. Not every state of the human mind is in the Bible. It’s not meant to be an exhaustive book on human thinking.

 

[JAG ..]

People who believe something they didn’t look into that isn’t true have an ignorant trust in what they believe. Not every state of the human mind is in the Bible. It’s not meant to be an exhaustive book on human thinking.

There is a problem buried within your phrase "that isn't true"
and here is the problem: There is no authority on what is or
is not true. Think about that for a minute. Who exactly gets to say
what is, or is not, true? Would that me? You? Trump? Biden?

Let's put it another way:
There is no such thing as The International Authority On What Is, Or Is Not, True.
And the examples are in the hundreds.
The ongoing arguments/debate on Christian eschatology.
The ongoing arguments/debate between the Armenians and the Calvinists.
The ongoing arguments/debate between Democrats and Republicans.

What often happens is this:
Each individual person makes their claim that it is THEY that know the truth
and they are here to instruct you what the truth is.
Of course that always ends up in endless arguments. Just read any lengthy thread
on the web.

In the end the only thing that really matters is the position that the Sovereign God
blesses and exalts.

Best

JAG

[]

 

[Dorothy Mae]

There is no such thing as "ignorant trust" as a concept
to be found anywhere in the Bible.

Of course it is. Jesus said there would be those who trust (ignorantly) that they are serving God by killing you. They are trusting in their thinking but are actually ignorant of the truth.

That concept was
originated by mere human beings and therefore carries
only the weight and force of mere human assertion.

It’s actually found everywhere throughout time. People get swindled by ignorantly trusting another. It’s rampant in human societies, all cultures.

Regarding the secret things: The fact that there is a body
of secret things that will never be revealed to any humans
in this life has been solidly established and is not arguable.

True but of what value is that?

Deuth 29:29 is compelling: There are secret things that belong
to God.

And He reveals them to whom He wishes. Do you disagree?

And in Acts chapter 1 the Lord Jesus told His disciples
that it was not for them to know, about certain truths.

Best

JAG

I think there’s no argument that there are matters that we don’t understand. Those are truths we are ignorant of. But Jesus told us that if we keep his teaching we will know the truth, not exhaustively but definitely truly.

Best
DM

 

[Dorothy Mae]

There is a problem buried within your phrase "that isn't true"
and here is the problem: There is no authority on what is or
is not true. Think about that for a minute. Who exactly gets to say
what is, or is not, true? Would that me? You? Trump? Biden?

Jesus or God, if you will. Each man makes choices based on what he thinks is true. Upon this we build our lives. When what we build upon is not true, that is, we haven’t been DOING the teaching of Jesus, the storms of life can knock it down. But that man thought he was authority of truth and what he thought was true….problem was it wasn’t and life revealed this.

Jesus said if we keep his teaching (do what he said, not merely believe we are saved by his grace) then, and only then, we will know the truth and KNOW we know the truth.

Truth is an absolute in that it is there whether we have grasped it or not.

Let's put it another way:
There is no such thing as The International Authority On What Is, Or Is Not, True.
And the examples are in the hundreds.

Yes there is. Jesus is the international Authority on what is or not. But frankly speaking, in other ways we all are. A woman sees a teenager steal a coat out of a store. She is the authority on that matter. It really happened and in the end, God Himself would say it happened. No one says, “ ah, but no one is the authority of whether that teen (now wearing the coat) stole it.” It’s sounds lofty but we don’t live like that.

The ongoing arguments/debate on Christian eschatology.
The ongoing arguments/debate between the Armenians and the Calvinists.

The ongoing war between truth and lies, for example.

The ongoing arguments/debate between Democrats and Republicans.

That’s not in the same class. They’re not looking for truth and don’t espouse that they are.

What often happens is this:
Each individual person makes their claim that it is THEY that know the truth
and they are here to instruct you what the truth is.
Of course that always ends up in endless arguments. Just read any lengthy thread
on the web.

Paul went constantly into the synagogue and debated with the men there that Jesus was the Christ. Ought he to have given up because there’s just “no knowing the truth?” Do you see that presenting the truth is an important weapon of our warfare not against flesh and blood, but the enemy? It’s the sword of truth. Sometimes some people recognize it’s ring.

In the end the only thing that really matters is the position that the Sovereign God
blesses and exalts.

Best

JAG

[]

Ah, nicely put. What God blesses is truth. What He exalts is a love of the truth. But one must believe truth is there for one, and we CAN know it for two. Jesus said, “all who are of (love) the truth hear my voice.” There’s loving the truth and there’s loving pleasing and comfortable lies. All lies about matters of God I’ve found to be comfortable. They appeal to
something wrong in us so we embrace them and hold on for dear life.

Nice chatting!

DM

 

[JAG ..]

Yes there is. Jesus is the international Authority on what is or not. But frankly speaking, in other ways we all are.

Maybe I did not make my point clear.
I will try again.
Yes indeed the Lord Jesus is THE authority, BUT the Lord Jesus
must be interpreted.

Let us take for example what the Lord Jesus said in John 10:28
He said regarding His sheep: "They shall never perish."

Okay now I JAG being a Calvinist, interpret Jesus to mean
that His sheep cannot even possibly lose their salvation.

However our Armenian brethren say that Jusus did NOT mean
by His "they shall never perish" that His sheep could not lose
their salvation, and in fact true Christians can lose their salvation
and end up in Gehenna.

Let us say that there are two Christians, one named Bob and one named Tom.

Bob holds that Jesus' "They shall never perish" means that Jesus is teaching that
it is impossible for a true Christian to lose their salvation.

Tom holds that Jesus' "They shall never perish" does NOT mean that true Christians
can never lose their salvation.

Now each Christian can have his position on this issue, and he can
be 100% settled in his own mind on this issue, BUT there is no such thing as
The International Authority To Decide If Bob Is Correct Or If Tom Is Correct.

Maybe you agree with Bob. If you do, then you can be 100% convinced in your
own mind that Bob's position is correct, but that does NOT settle the issue for
Christendom. It only settles the issue for you - as far as you are concerned it is
a settled issue. And that is all it settles.

Nice chatting with you too.

God Bless.

JAG

[]

 

[Dorothy Mae]

Maybe I did not make my point clear.
I will try again.
Yes indeed the Lord Jesus is THE authority, BUT the Lord Jesus
must be interpreted.

The Lord Jesus only needs to be interpreted if one does not hear his voice and follow Him. The next best thing is to try to figure out on one's own (interpret) what He said to others.

Let us take for example what the Lord Jesus said in John 10:28
He said regarding His sheep: "They shall never perish."

Okay now I JAG being a Calvinist, interpret Jesus to mean
that His sheep cannot even possibly lose their salvation.

Yes, that is the Calvinist interpretation. Of course you have to ignore the times when Jesus talked about many falling away from the faith or many coming to him in faith and trust to whom he said "depart from me."

However our Armenian brethren say that Jusus did NOT mean
by His "they shall never perish" that His sheep could not lose
their salvation, and in fact true Christians can lose their salvation
and end up in Gehenna.

Well, that is not quite the position of those who are not Calvinists. Their position is that true Christians can fall away from the faith at which point they are no longer true followers of Jesus (Christians.) You do not have to agree with the opposition but you ought to state their position fairly.

Let us say that there are two Christians, one named Bob and one named Tom.

Bob holds that Jesus' "They shall never perish" means that Jesus is teaching that
it is impossible for a true Christian to lose their salvation.

Tom holds that Jesus' "They shall never perish" does NOT mean that true Christians
can never lose their salvation.

Now each Christian can have his position on this issue, and he can
be 100% settled in his own mind on this issue, BUT there is no such thing as
The International Authority To Decide If Bob Is Correct Or If Tom Is Correct.

Maybe you agree with Bob. If you do, then you can be 100% convinced in your
own mind that Bob's position is correct, but that does NOT settle the issue for
Christendom. It only settles the issue for you - as far as you are concerned it is
a settled issue. And that is all it settles.

Nice chatting with you too.

Quite well said and I agree. Of course when we stand before him the issue will be settled once and for all and all of us will find out where we were in error (guaranteed) and where we had the mind of Christ (that is our understanding of the matter matched his knowledge.)

God Bless.

JAG

[]

Glad you enjoy the chatting. Btw, is JAG your initials? I worked with the legal branch of the Army for a time although not a part of JAG.

D

 

[JAG ..]

The Lord Jesus only needs to be interpreted if one does not hear his voice and follow Him.

It is utterly impossible to NOT interpret any statement in any written text.
(If you are going to assert what it means or does not mean)

The one and only way you can escape interpreting a Bible verse is to NOT
assert or say what it means or does not mean.

Interpret means that you assert what the statement means and does not mean
with regards to the ramifications of various subjects associated with the statement.

To assert that the statements of the Lord Jesus do not need to be interpreted
is to enter The Land Of The Irrational.

The one and only way you can not interpret John 10:28 "they shall never perish"
is to merely quote the verse, then NEVER say anything ABOUT that verse and NEVER
answer any questions about that verse. Never say what it means or does not mean.
Just quote the verse and never say anything more than merely quoting the verse.

But of course 99.9 % of Christians never do that. What do they do? They assert what they
think the verse means as applied to related issues. In other words they interpret the verse.


JAG is not related to the military.

Best Regards,

JAG

[]

 

[Dorothy Mae]

It is utterly impossible to NOT interpret any statement in any written text.
(If you are going to assert what it means or does not mean)

You are confusing interpreting with understanding. If those who read or listened to your words gave themselves the freedom to interpret them any way that suits them, you would object. If you said, "please pick up some bread on your way home" to a sweetheart you live with, and they went to the store and literally lifted bread into the air, put it back down and walked out of the store without any bread, you would not accept that they INTERPRETED your words. They did, in fact, interpret them, but failed to understand them.

The one and only way you can escape interpreting a Bible verse is to NOT
assert or say what it means or does not mean.

As you can see, this is not the case. There is understanding what the author had in his thoughts when he wrote it. That is called understanding. Interpreting is allowing yourself to change what was meant, perhaps. Sometimes the understanding is obscure for planned reasons and so both are involved.

Interpret means that you assert what the statement means and does not mean
with regards to the ramifications of various subjects associated with the statement.

No, that is understanding. As a text is obscure, interpretation involves considering the matters you mention above.

To assert that the statements of the Lord Jesus do not need to be interpreted
is to enter The Land Of The Irrational.

No, it is to apply one's mind to actually having the same understanding or thinking as the author.

The one and only way you can not interpret John 10:28 "they shall never perish"
is to merely quote the verse, then NEVER say anything ABOUT that verse and NEVER
answer any questions about that verse. Never say what it means or does not mean.
Just quote the verse and never say anything more than merely quoting the verse.

As you can see, understanding has been left out of your consideration on the matter. Now, "they shall never perish" needs to be seen, as you said earlier, in the light of various other matters surrounding the text AND what is said elsewhere assuming Jesus was very consistent.

But of course 99.9 % of Christians never do that. What do they do? They assert what they
think the verse means as applied to related issues. In other words they interpret the verse.

Depends upon other factors. It can be that they really understand the verse.

JAG is not related to the military.

It stands for Judge Advocate General and yes, it is very much a branch of the military.

Best Regards,

JAG

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Best regards to you as well,
DM