Prayer

[journeymanisnothing]

Hello @T.E. Smith.
In a prayer thread you said,

Thank God for modern medicine, without which the spiritual gift of healing seems to be remarkably ineffective.

First point, whoever and whatever exists are "spiritual gifts", because everything comes from God. I believe in the other thread, believers told you the same. It's a matter of our faith, not yours.
Which brings me to my 2nd point. Your comment "Thank God", seems rather vain coming from an atheist. Personally, I understand why you take his name in vain.

 

[T. E. Smith]

First point, whoever and whatever exists are "spiritual gifts", because everything comes from God. I believe in the other thread, believers told you the same. It's a matter of our faith, not yours.

If it is due to prayer, why does modern medicine make it more effective? Why does God never heal amputees?

Which brings me to my 2nd point. Your comment "Thank God", seems rather vain coming from an atheist. Personally, I understand why you take his name in vain.

True. My comment was partially sarcastic. I take God's name with much less respect than names of other people, because God is not, in my opinion, real, and thus by "taking his name in vain", I can't be offending him.

However, there are many Christians who will say "Thank God for modern medicine."

 

[journeymanisnothing]

If it is due to prayer, why does modern medicine make it more effective? Why does God never heal amputees?

Anymore? I don't know. I'm happy to report my faith in God isn't shaken by it.

T.E. Smith said,
True. My comment was partially sarcastic. I take God's name with much less respect than names of other people, because God is not, in my opinion, real, and thus by "taking his name in vain", I can't be offending him.

We'll see.

However, there are many Christians who will say "Thank God for modern medicine."

I'm one for thr reason I and others have offered.

 

[T. E. Smith]

Anymore? I don't know. I'm happy to report my faith in God isn't shaken by it.

Well, I applaud your honesty. In that case, there's nowhere else I can place my point.

We'll see.

"Thomas! How dare you use my name in vain by saying, 'Thank God'!? Prepare to burn in Hell!" Is the Christian god more mature than that? Eh, if not, then I guess I'm in for a nasty surprise. lol

I'm one for thr reason I and others have offered.

I would not (seriously) thank God for it; I would thank humanity and the doctors who invented it.

 

[hawkman]

Modern medicine and a broken Humerus bone .
About 2 years ago I fell and broke my humerus bone in my arm . Modern medicine x-rayed my arm and said , " Your bone is broke and it will take time to heal , we can prescribe you some pain meds . " No cast needed , much to my dismay . So what healed my arm bone ? My body's built in , designed , healing properties and prayer . And rehab later to get my shoulder loosened up again .

 

[daninthelionsden]

I'm alive by the grace of God. At death's door, I rebounded in the hospital from COVID. One nurse said "You were saved because you have a purpose to fulfill. I asked her to please repeat that and she did. I ran into a Christian at a time when I really needed to hear that after being told by the head doctor that it could go either way. I've escaped death a few times now.

 

[T. E. Smith]

I'm alive by the grace of God. At death's door, I rebounded in the hospital from COVID. One nurse said "You were saved because you have a purpose to fulfill. I asked her to please repeat that and she did. I ran into a Christian at a time when I really needed to hear that after being told by the head doctor that it could go either way. I've escaped death a few times now.

Christian doctors. I went to the hospital once and thanked the doctor after. He said, "Don't thank me, thank God." I looked straight at him and said "Thank you." Then as I was leaving, I said what I always say to Christians when I'm leaving : "Spirits bless you" . EDIT: If Christians can say "God bless you" then I have every right to say "Spirits bless you".

 

[daninthelionsden]

Christian doctors. I went to the hospital once and thanked the doctor after. He said, "Don't thank me, thank God." I looked straight at him and said "Thank you." Then as I was leaving, I said what I always say to Christians when I'm leaving : "Spirits bless you"

Mine was anything, but Christian. They were amazed at how I could possibly recover that quickly. My O2 sat was in the 60s. The clock on the wall looked like a melting synthetic pizza with numbers. I couldn't figure out how to tell time even though I knew it had to be a clock and that I should easily be able to read it. They wanted me to sign a paper. I had no idea how to make my hand do what my brain was trying to tell it to do. They just did the standard protocol, telling me "we'll see" in regards to whether I'd make it.

 

[journeymanisnothing]

Well, I applaud your honesty. In that case, there's nowhere else I can place my point.

No need to applaud me. God works in his own time for our welfare. Also, you've placed your point in your own faith.

"Thomas! How dare you use my name in vain by saying, 'Thank God'!? Prepare to burn in Hell!" Is the Christian god more mature than that? Eh, if not, then I guess I'm in for a nasty surprise. lol

My view of hell fire is meeting our glorified Savior without having prepared yourself to meet him. No eternal suffering. Just torment over the truth of yourself. Then bye.

I would not (seriously) thank God for it; I would thank humanity and the doctors who invented it.

I'll thank God who gives humans life.

 

[T. E. Smith]

No need to applaud me. God works in his own time for our welfare. Also, you've placed your point in your own faith.

My view of hell fire is meeting our glorified Savior without having prepared yourself to meet him. No eternal suffering. Just torment over the truth of yourself. Then bye.

I'll thank God who gives humans life.

My own faith? You're projecting. I have no faith.
If that's the afterlife for non-believers then I have nothing to fear. Woops, I was wrong. Been wrong about many things in my life. Why would I be "tormented" about being wrong here?

 

[journeymanisnothing]

My own faith? You're projecting. I have no faith.

Your trust is that there is no God. That's your faith.

If that's the afterlife for non-believers then I have nothing to fear. Woops, I was wrong. Been wrong about many things in my life. Why would I be "tormented" about being wrong here?

I don't know why you wouldn't be. I know why I would be. I don't want my sins exposed, or do I want my life to end.

 

[T. E. Smith]

Your trust is that there is no God. That's your faith.

I do not have "faith in atheism." Once again that is pure projection. I'm very tired of Christians always talking about how atheists have faith in atheism. It's just straight up false.

I don't know why you wouldn't be. I know why I would be. I don't want my sins exposed, or do I want my life to end.

Perhaps God should have revealed himself more clearly. What sins? I've wronged people before and apologized for it, if that's what you mean. Or if you mean the sin of atheism, I do not consider that a sin, and I would not consider it a sin even if God said it was.

As for my life ending, that is indeed unfortunate, but that's already the fate I've accepted. In a naturalistic universe, my life would just end when I die. Personally, I think belief in the afterlife comes down to arrogance: "I'm too special for the universe to continue without me."

 

[journeymanisnothing]

I do not have "faith in atheism." Once again that is pure projection. I'm very tired of Christians always talking about how atheists have faith in atheism. It's just straight up false.

Maybe faith in what challenges the truth of scripture. So there is no difference.

Perhaps God should have revealed himself more clearly. What sins?

You've shown yourself to have a cursory knowledge of scripture which should answer your own question, or do you want to play dumb now?

I've wronged people before and apologized for it, if that's what you mean. Or if you mean the sin of atheism, I do not consider that a sin, and I would not consider it a sin even if God said it was.

I understand you completely. I'm well aware that what God calls sin is no sin to you at all.

As for my life ending, that is indeed unfortunate, but that's already the fate I've accepted. In a naturalistic universe, my life would just end when I die. Personally, I think belief in the afterlife comes down to arrogance: "I'm too special for the universe to continue without me."

I now see the world as supernatural, as life exists eternally.

 

[T. E. Smith]

Maybe faith in what challenges the truth of scripture. So there is no difference.

No because it's not faith. It's evidence-based and so is not faith.

You've shown yourself to have a cursory knowledge of scripture which should answer your own question, or do you want to play dumb now?

Having read the scripture in-depth I've come to the conclusion that it is man-made, and the more I read it the more I recognize this conclusion as true. For example, the Gospels are not histories but are omniscient narratives that smack of myths in every way.

I understand you completely. I'm well aware that what God calls sin is no sin to you at all.

Ok.

I now see the world as supernatural, as life exists eternally.

I see no evidence for life that exists eternally.

 

[journeymanisnothing]

No because it's not faith. It's evidence-based and so is not faith.

Having read the scripture in-depth I've come to the conclusion that it is man-made, and the more I read it the more I recognize this conclusion as true. For example, the Gospels are not histories but are omniscient narratives that smack of myths in every way.

I understand you find no truth of God from the Bible. That's not what I asked you. I asked you to prove God doesn't exist.

I see no evidence for life that exists eternally.

That's because you don't believe life only comes from life. Life can only come from what is alive. Therefore life has always existed.

 

[T. E. Smith]

I understand you find no truth of God from the Bible. That's not what I asked you. I asked you to prove God doesn't exist.

That's a tough one! How about this: prove to me that Hermes doesn't exist. Then I'll borrow your reasoning to prove that Yahweh/Jesus doesn't exist. Sound good?

By de facto I reject Hermes. If I were to prove that every random god humanity has come up with does not exist, well, I'd be doing that forever. And some of them are unprovable, but should still be rejected because no evidence exists for them. Christopher Hitchens said, "What can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence." So I rejected Yahweh/Jesus de facto.

That's because you don't believe life only comes from life. Life can only come from what is alive. Therefore life has always existed.

That doesn't mean it will always continue to exist.

 

[daninthelionsden]

I do not have "faith in atheism." Once again that is pure projection. I'm very tired of Christians always talking about how atheists have faith in atheism. It's just straight up false.

Perhaps God should have revealed himself more clearly. What sins? I've wronged people before and apologized for it, if that's what you mean. Or if you mean the sin of atheism, I do not consider that a sin, and I would not consider it a sin even if God said it was.

As for my life ending, that is indeed unfortunate, but that's already the fate I've accepted. In a naturalistic universe, my life would just end when I die. Personally, I think belief in the afterlife comes down to arrogance: "I'm too special for the universe to continue without me."

I've never met a humble atheist, but I've met a few humble Christians.

 

[T. E. Smith]

I've never met a humble atheist, but I've met a few humble Christians.

The idea that an ancient book tells us EVERYTHING we need to know about the universe, without the slightest doubt, and that any philosophy, reason, evidence, and science that goes against this ancient book MUST be false and entirely rejected - that's arrogance.

 

[journeymanisnothing]

That's a tough one! How about this: prove to me that Hermes doesn't exist.
Then I'll borrow your reasoning to prove that Yahweh/Jesus doesn't exist. Sound good?

By de facto I reject Hermes. If I were to prove that every random god humanity has come up with does not exist, well, I'd be doing that forever. And some of them are unprovable, but should still be rejected because no evidence exists for them. Christopher Hitchens said, "What can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence." So I rejected Yahweh/Jesus de facto.

There is no earthly reason to compare any other person, real, or imagined to the Messiah.

 

[journeymanisnothing]

The idea that an ancient book tells us EVERYTHING we need to know about the universe, without the slightest doubt, and that any philosophy, reason, evidence, and science that goes against this ancient book MUST be false and entirely rejected - that's arrogance.

You addressed this to daninthelionsden, but I would like to comment by saying, if you believe faith in Jesus leads to arrogancy, you were taught the gospel incorrectly.