[_ Old Earth _] Praying...

[SethBartlett]

This suddenly hit me when I was in my Youth group on Sunday.

Now to set the stage or whatever you want to call it, I will give a small, very small history of myself for why I think of things like this all the time.

I have been an evolutionist basically since I was younger, so all of my life I have been. I didn't come to Christ until about 2 years ago or so. Going on 3, fairly close. I don't really have a date of when I accepted Jesus as My Savior.

Okay but since I have accepted Christ as my Savior I am constantly looking for things to 'put down' or disprove evolution, because I was an evolutionists and I thought I could take on the world (Go Macho Me lol).

For those who are Christians from since they were little this one is a little harder to see or think about. But here goes, sorry I'm taking so long ^_^. Have you ever noticed even as a non-believer you 'pray' in dire situations.

Even as a full-blown athiest you 'pray' in situations, things like "Oh God please" or "Oh God why?" or usually it's a "Please don't let it be or happen" type thing. But if you didn't believe in God or a higher power then why would you pray, even if in a dire situation, why wouldn't you just be like "Cmon this shouldn't happen" instead of trying to get it not to happen.

My point being, we are not told or showed examples of this, no one ever tells you to pray or anything in a dire situation as a non-believer. It comes naturally which I find quite odd. This is just my rambling and something that came across my mind which interested me ^_^

 

[Slevin]

Even as a full-blown athiest you 'pray' in situations, things like "Oh God please" or "Oh God why?" or usually it's a "Please don't let it be or happen" type thing. But if you didn't believe in God or a higher power then why would you pray, even if in a dire situation, why wouldn't you just be like "Cmon this shouldn't happen" instead of trying to get it not to happen.

My point being, we are not told or showed examples of this, no one ever tells you to pray or anything in a dire situation as a non-believer. It comes naturally which I find quite odd. This is just my rambling and something that came across my mind which interested me ^_^

I don't pray in dire situations. Even the statement "Oh God please" is just an expression and not necessarily an appeal to a higher power.

 

[Atonement]

I'm still trying to find the Science in all this?

 

[SethBartlett]

You can move it accordingly, I wasn't sure where to put it?

 

[jwu]

Okay but since I have accepted Christ as my Savior I am constantly looking for things to 'put down' or disprove evolution, because I was an evolutionists and I thought I could take on the world (Go Macho Me lol).

Note that evolution does not equal atheism. The majority of Christians worldwide are theistic evolutionists.

 

[LittleNipper]

Note that evolution does not equal atheism. The majority of Christians worldwide are theistic evolutionists.

They just can not explain Biblically. why....

 

[jwu]

How about things like "let the earth bring forth..." instead of "let there be a poof and a smoke cloud and suddenly there is..."?

 

[LittleNipper]

How about things like "let the earth bring forth..." instead of "let there be a poof and a smoke cloud and suddenly there is..."?

GOD spoke and everything came into existance. How is that so unreasonable when compaired with, Billions and Billions of years ago, we believe a tightly packed pinpoint of matter reached critical mass and exploded and from that the universe came to be what it is today----of course who needs a god. Cosmic Evolution Scientists have simply dropped the words Once Upon at Time and replaced it with Billions and Billions. And pixy dust is now call star stuff----sounds more scientific.

 

[SethBartlett]

I never said evolutionists were athiests or anything of the sort. But being an evolutionist Christian or Evolutionist Creationism person thingy(lol sorry). Believing in evolution and God at the same time or well that they "co-exist" is not possible. I've heard of people claiming to be or not so good of reasons for someone to be or anything. They conflict each other and can not co-exist, it's one or the other.

 

[jwu]

Why?

There are many things in the Bible which science finally found out that they have to be interpreted as non-literally. E.g. Jesus being taken onto an "exceedingly high mountain" by the devil in order to show him all the kingdoms of the world. We know there is no such mountain, there couldn't even be one on a spherical world.

Genesis makes a lot of sense as an allegory about the intellectual and moral development of mankind. Well...and the noachian flood is outright falsified, there was no global flood 4400 years ago. Moreover, the earth is clearly older than a few thousand years. We can discuss the evidence if you are interested.

 

[LittleNipper]

Why?

There are many things in the Bible which science finally found out that they have to be interpreted as non-literally. E.g. Jesus being taken onto an "exceedingly high mountain" by the devil in order to show him all the kingdoms of the world. We know there is no such mountain, there couldn't even be one on a spherical world.

Genesis makes a lot of sense as an allegory about the intellectual and moral development of mankind. Well...and the noachian flood is outright falsified, there was no global flood 4400 years ago. Moreover, the earth is clearly older than a few thousand years. We can discuss the evidence if you are interested.

Just because the devil whisked JESUS to a very high mountain, and then showed Jesus all the kingdoms of the world, doesn't mean that it was because of the height of the mountain that Jesus could see them. Obviously, Jesus was lifted by the power the devil possessed to that mountain top. The mountain represented the destruction of GOD's original landscape by the ravages of the FLOOD which involved the Devil. Satan, could easily have conjured a sort of magic lantern show to TRY to impress Jesus. The earth was created complete, perfect and MATURE by GOD. Adam likely appeared as a 30 year old guy. That does not mean that Adam was ALREADY 30 when GOD created him ----- Adam had the physical characteristic of someone 30 or there abouts. The ecological system was CREATED in all its maturity within a 6 day period. It is unregenerated logic which insists placing the wrong age on it.

 

[jwu]

That's exactly what i am talking about. Due to the scientific knowledge of the shape of the earth this passage is interpreted in a specific way - as a symbolic mountain, or as a factor completely unrelated to showing the kingdoms of the earth.

 

[LittleNipper]

That's exactly what i am talking about. Due to the scientific knowledge of the shape of the earth this passage is interpreted in a specific way - as a symbolic mountain, or as a factor completely unrelated to showing the kingdoms of the earth.

However, any interpretation of scripture must not contradict any other passage of scripture taken in context. Scripture is true in its context and is not contrary to any other passage taken in its context... The HOLY SPIRIT (and not human wisdom) guides the faithful in an understanding of the context...

 

[jwu]

Then where do all those denominations come from? Is there one that is right about everything which is the sole one whose members are led by the holy spirit?

 

[LittleNipper]

Then where do all those denominations come from? Is there one that is right about everything which is the sole one whose members are led by the holy spirit?

Many (NOT all) denominations sprang from a specific Christian founder at a specific time in history, in a specific country. Some denominations should not even be considered Christian because their focus is not GOD nor HIS WORD). Many denomination share all major doctrines but have their own form of government, considerations and checks and balances... The HOLY SPIRIT does not care if a church is painted white or purple. The HOLY SPIRIT does not care if there is a steeple a dome, or nothing at all.... The HOLY SPIRIT is not concerned if the LORD's Supper happens every Sunday, once a month or once a year. The HOLY SPIRIT enlightens and nurtures believers and brings in new believers. The HOLY SPIRIT keeps the CHURCH (body of all redeemed believers) evaluating their position with GOD through the study of HIS standard (the BIBLE). I have attended a Independent Community church, An Open Bible church, a Methodist church, a Brethren church, a Mennonite church, and an Independent Bible Believing Fundamentalist church, a Roman Catholic church, an Episcopal church, a Luthern church, and a Presbyterian church. I have found many similarities. Historically, I find MORE similarities then differences; however, as churches drift from accepting GOD's standard as divinely inspired, I have noticed that they become less concerned with a personal relationship with GOD and more concerned with the number of members attending.... That is what I observe.

 

[jwu]

So the followers of which particular denomination are guided by the holy spirit? They usually differ by more than just the preferred shape of the bell tower...and there should not be any difference regarding the interpretation of scripture between two denominations if both are guided by the holy spirit.

 

[LittleNipper]

So the followers of which particular denomination are guided by the holy spirit? They usually differ by more than just the preferred shape of the bell tower...and there should not be any difference regarding the interpretation of scripture between two denominations if both are guided by the holy spirit.

Not really. Cults aside, the major doctrines of Christianity are that JESUS CHRIST was/is GOD in the flesh, and that GOD is TRIUNE in nature (three personages in one essence); GOD the FATHER, GOD the SON, and GOD the HOLY GHOST. All three together constitute TOTAL GOD and any one is GOD demonstrated by each having the ability to create, heal, control. There is ONLY one way for anyone to be saved eternally and that is by placing one's faith and trust in CHRIST for one's salvation. There is not any other means one may be save. CHRIST paid the perfect sacrifice for fallen imperfect man.

 

[jwu]

Agreement about major aspects does not make disagreement about other aspects go away. You didn't answer the question. There should not be any disagreement if the Holy Spirit guides the interpretation. Or does the Holy Spirit only guide the interpretation of some passages, as the others aren't so important?

 

[LittleNipper]

Agreement about major aspects does not make disagreement about other aspects go away. You didn't answer the question. There should not be any disagreement if the Holy Spirit guides the interpretation. Or does the Holy Spirit only guide the interpretation of some passages, as the others aren't so important?

Not everyone is listening to the leading of the HOLY SPIRIT. MANY people believe only their own wisdom or that of others in authority. MANY do not hold to Bible inerrancy in these last days. As a result, they miss the leading of the HOLY SPIRIT and replace it with their own valves, wisdom, etc...

 

[jwu]

So who exactly isn't listening to the Holy Spirit? Name denominations whose members largely do so, and how you know that that is so.