Prophecy and Spirituality

[Rockytopva]

The churches I visit normally keep their eschatology simple with a statement such as...

"We believe in the premillennial second coming of Jesus. First, to resurrect the righteous dead and to catch away the living saints to Him in the air. Second, to reign on the earth a thousand years."

And a chat on my views on eschatology with a preacher of that view will normally result in a simple, "Looking for Jesus" reply along with a smile. To get any heavier in Revelation is never fruitful so I rarely bring it up outside Christian web forums. Even on Christian forums the chats normally end up unproductive and one makes more enemies as it is rare to find Christians who have studied Revelation, church history and have arrived at the same conclusions. Folks will get angry at you for disagreeing with them and one creates more enemies than friends, To make a long story short a detailed view of Revelation often comes across as ego, as the Apostle says...

Knowledge puffeth up, but charity edifieth. - 1 Corinthians 8:1

Spirituality... But I believe that a key to true spirituality is in the looking for the appearing of the Lord Jesus Christ...

Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is. And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure. - 1 John 3:2-3

11 For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,
12 Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world;
13 Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ; - Titus 2

1 Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us,
2 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God. - Hebrews 12

A good man will continue to look unto Jesus and that hope to "see him as he is" is a sanctifying hope. A man heavily into eschatology seldom comes across as a charitable soul.

 

[dwb001]

You may not change the mind of the person you are debating... but that is usually not the purpose of a debate.
A debate allows the audience to hear both sides of the story.
I don't expect to change the mind of the person I am debating... and they seldom change mine(it has happened though).
Both sides make their points and the audience can evaluate the ideas.

As to charity in a debate... it rarely happens... not the place for it.
Jesus was not charitable in His debates... for the most part... nor did His Disciples.
Charity is mainly for personal interaction, education, correction... etc.

So if you were to meet me in person my presentation of the same ideas would have an entirely different tenor.
Forums don't engender themselves to a friendly dialogue.
Text does not convey emotion or tone.
How many times have you misunderstood a text... not the words but the "feel".

So a debate is confrontational... without malice or hate.
A discussion can be kind and gentle... as it is a different situation.

 

[Rockytopva]

You may not change the mind of the person you are debating... but that is usually not the purpose of a debate.
A debate allows the audience to hear both sides of the story.
I don't expect to change the mind of the person I am debating... and they seldom change mine(it has happened though).
Both sides make their points and the audience can evaluate the ideas.

As to charity in a debate... it rarely happens... not the place for it.
Jesus was not charitable in His debates... for the most part... nor did His Disciples.
Charity is mainly for personal interaction, education, correction... etc.

So if you were to meet me in person my presentation of the same ideas would have an entirely different tenor.
Forums don't engender themselves to a friendly dialogue.
Text does not convey emotion or tone.
How many times have you misunderstood a text... not the words but the "feel".

So a debate is confrontational... without malice or hate.
A discussion can be kind and gentle... as it is a different situation.

You have got some who will study prophecy and then proceed to say...
But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief. - 1 Thessalonians 5:4
And then go on to imply that the rest of us are in darkness for not going along with all of their date settings.

 

[dwb001]

You have got some who will study prophecy and then proceed to say...
But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief. - 1 Thessalonians 5:4
And then go on to imply that the rest of us are in darkness for not going along with all of their date settings.

And then you can evaluate their claims and make a determination.
Not every person who studies prophecy is a "nice guy".
Let them speak so that their nature can be exposed.

So do you have a problem with eschatology or with "date setting"?

 

[Rockytopva]

And then you can evaluate their claims and make a determination.
Not every person who studies prophecy is a "nice guy".
Let them speak so that their nature can be exposed.

So do you have a problem with eschatology or with "date setting"?

I don't have a problem with date settings. If I had to pick an end time date I would go with the scientist, Isaac Newton, who also had a word for those who brought the sacred prophecies into discredit.

And I heard the man clothed in linen, which was upon the waters of the river, when he held up his right hand and his left hand unto heaven, and sware by him that liveth for ever that it shall be for a time, times, and an half. Daniel 12:7

From a folio cataloged as Yahuda MS 7.3g, f. 13v:

"So then the time times & half a time are 42 months or 1260 days or three years & an half, reckoning twelve months to a year & 30 days to a month as was done in the Calendar of the primitive year. And the days of short lived Beasts being put for the years of lived kingdoms, the period of 1260 days, if dated from the complete conquest of the three kings A.C. 800, will end A.C. 2060." - Isaac Newton

As Charlemagne was crowned king on December 25, 800 by Pope Leo the III so the day of Christ's coming will be on Christmas Day, 2060. If the rapture of the saints (1 Thessalonians 4:16-17) occurs seven years before the time of Christ’s coming the date of the rapture 12.25 2053. However... Isaac Newton notes...

"It may end later, but I see no reason for its ending sooner. This I mention not to assert when the time of the end shall be, but to put a stop to the rash conjectures of fancifull men who are frequently predicting the time of the end, & by doing so bring the sacred prophesies into discredit as often as their predictions fail. Christ comes as a thief in the night, & it is not for us to know the times & seasons which God hath put into his own breast." - Isaac Newton

 

[jasonc]

I don't have a problem with date settings. If I had to pick an end time date I would go with the scientist, Isaac Newton, who also had a word for those who brought the sacred prophecies into discredit.

And I heard the man clothed in linen, which was upon the waters of the river, when he held up his right hand and his left hand unto heaven, and sware by him that liveth for ever that it shall be for a time, times, and an half. Daniel 12:7

From a folio cataloged as Yahuda MS 7.3g, f. 13v:

"So then the time times & half a time are 42 months or 1260 days or three years & an half, reckoning twelve months to a year & 30 days to a month as was done in the Calendar of the primitive year. And the days of short lived Beasts being put for the years of lived kingdoms, the period of 1260 days, if dated from the complete conquest of the three kings A.C. 800, will end A.C. 2060." - Isaac Newton

As Charlemagne was crowned king on December 25, 800 by Pope Leo the III so the day of Christ's coming will be on Christmas Day, 2060. If the rapture of the saints (1 Thessalonians 4:16-17) occurs seven years before the time of Christ’s coming the date of the rapture 12.25 2053. However... Isaac Newton notes...

"It may end later, but I see no reason for its ending sooner. This I mention not to assert when the time of the end shall be, but to put a stop to the rash conjectures of fancifull men who are frequently predicting the time of the end, & by doing so bring the sacred prophesies into discredit as often as their predictions fail. Christ comes as a thief in the night, & it is not for us to know the times & seasons which God hath put into his own breast." - Isaac Newton

Honestly what is the things the church should do ?

Preach the gospel,equip the saints and disciple.

No matter what eschatology is true that is the way . We may die today .the lost die every day . I'm not against studying it just that end time focus creates a problem when you solely focus on it and spend way too much time on it.

Im talking about .don't need to save ,dont need to plan for tomorrow..

 

[Rockytopva]

Honestly what is the things the church should do ?

Preach the gospel,equip the saints and disciple.

No matter what eschatology is true that is the way . We may die today .the lost die every day . I'm not against studying it just that end time focus creates a problem when you solely focus on it and spend way too much time on it.

Im talking about .don't need to save ,dont need to plan for tomorrow..

Stopping by to give that one a thumbs up. Profitable things... Preaching the gospel, equipping the saints and discipleship.

 

[Rockytopva]

And no man in heaven, nor in earth, neither under the earth, was able to open the book, neither to look thereon. And I wept much, because no man was found worthy to open and to read the book, neither to look thereon. - Revelation 5:3-4

Eschatology and Soteriology... If I am unsure of who is recorded in the Lamb's Book of Life what profit is it to argue who is written therein?

 

[jasonc]

Stopping by to give that one a thumbs up. Profitable things... Preaching the gospel, equipping the saints and discipleship.

Sadly if that isn't the reaction to the "end times" no amount of teaching by prophecy experts will matter .

I'm not saying one should eschew it .my church has one elder who teaches it and a retired pastor who has as well.the ladies group has started Daniel .the elders approved it .one said escahtology is never simple.but it has no major errors.

The more I look into it the more I thought I knew

 

[Dave Watchman]

And a chat on my views on eschatology with a preacher of that view will normally result in a simple, "Looking for Jesus" reply along with a smile. To get any heavier in Revelation is never fruitful so I rarely bring it up outside Christian web forums. Even on Christian forums the chats normally end up unproductive and one makes more enemies as it is rare to find Christians who have studied Revelation, church history and have arrived at the same conclusions. Folks will get angry at you for disagreeing with them and one creates more enemies than friends, To make a long story short a detailed view of Revelation often comes across as ego, as the Apostle says...

Knowledge puffeth up, but charity edifieth. - 1 Corinthians 8:1

Spirituality... But I believe that a key to true spirituality is in the looking for the appearing of the Lord Jesus Christ...

Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is. And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure. - 1 John 3:2-3

11 For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,
12 Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world;
13 Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ; - Titus 2

1 Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us,
2 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God. - Hebrews 12

A good man will continue to look unto Jesus and that hope to "see him as he is" is a sanctifying hope.

Sounds like a very wise post.

A man heavily into eschatology seldom comes across as a charitable soul.

Once and awhile great threads happen on the forums.

Forums are still where it's at.

Books and internet articles can get stale when it's happening in real time.

There once was a forum thread in 2015, on the big Christian forums, where we were all working together to solve the AofD in what we thought was real time. There wasn't any mean arguments. I remember a known debater just popped in and said: "interesting thread". It was the most exciting time I had ever experienced on a forum thread. I couldn't sit still. I was getting up pacing back and forth in the room.

It looked like the old owner sold that forum. Then the new guy changed the software around. I can't even stand to look at it now. It looks like one of those ransom letters with odd fonts pasted to a note. And the fall leaves, or snow flakes, falling down across the page. And an advertisement for Christian counselling in between every other post. He forgot the midi music and the reindeer pulling Santa across the page. Lol.

It was sad. That forum had it's software fine tuned into a thing of beauty over a period of 10 years or more. It looks like the old owner kept his Sodomite/Satanist, and all religions forum, but left the software unmolested.

About your 2060 deal, I can almost be this close to giving you a guarantee that it's not going to be that long. Isaac Newton only said 2060 to put a stop to the gratuitous speculation of his day, and to throw people off finding the real date zone. I know this because I know that he knew about 1535. 1535 contradicts that convoluted method Newton cooked up to arrive at 2060. What Newton couldn't have known about was what would happen in January 1969, and it's these two witnesses that sealed the Daniel 9 bifurcated deal that he postulated in his commentary of that chapter. Isaac would have loved to see one of our days.

Some are saying from 2023 to 2026.

I wonder if we're so close, so close we're in that silent time.

Be silent all humanity, be silent before the Lord.

"Be silent in the presence of the Lord GOD,
for the Day of the LORD is near.​

Peaceful Sabbath.