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Psalm 137:9

  • Thread starter VirginShallConceive
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VirginShallConceive

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"Happy shall he be, that taketh and dasheth thy little ones against the stones." -Psalm 137:9


What is up with that?

Man . . . those people were brutal back then.
 
farouk said:
20th century secularists such as Stalin, murdered millions.
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You do make a good point. There are certainly some brutal people still around these days. I guess that I was just, in my mind, comparing the Old Testament with the New Testament. Since the New Testament has a lot of Jesus in it, I guess it should be no surprise that it is considerably less brutal than the Old Testament(or Stalin, for that matter).


farouk said:
(Look also at the Psalm's context.)
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It's a pretty short chapter, so yeah, I've already looked. But, the context doesn't cut down on the brutality that much. Nice try.
 
VirginShallConceive,

Looking at the context, I can only imagine the death the Jews saw as the Babylonians came and took them into captivity. I think it would be understandable, if perhaps unrighteous, to have these kinds of thoughts towards those who killed many of your people and took many of them into captivity. We haven't changed one bit in our character since the beginning. We are just like Cain.

- Davies
 
Davies said:
VirginShallConceive,

Looking at the context, I can only imagine the death the Jews saw as the Babylonians came and took them into captivity. I think it would be understandable, if perhaps unrighteous, to have these kinds of thoughts towards those who killed many of your people and took many of them into captivity. We haven't changed one bit in our character since the beginning. We are just like Cain.

- Davies
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You know, Davies, that is a good way of trying to understand where someone is coming from. I agree that, in my safe and cozy world, I don't know what it is like to see my people conquered, so I can't really say for sure what my feelings would be. However, when it comes to revenge, I am willing to bet my house that there was a wide range of different reactions by people back then. I am talking about all the people who lived during the composition of Psalms, and who had the opportunity for such revenge. There were people who:

1)Forgave. Maybe because they really forgave the offender, or because they were grossed-out by blood and/or murder. I am guessing that these people were in the minority. Extreme minority.

2)Killed any soldier who belonged to the enemy. Eye for an eye. I will even admit that, had I lived back then, I would probably have been part of this group. Even now, I can't even accept "eye for an eye" and leave it at that. It's not "you gouge my eye, then I gouge your eye, and after that, it's all cool". If you gouge my eye, I kill you. Simple as that. I didn't sign up for the eye-gouging exchange. The eye-gougers need to be eradicated from this earth, as far as I'm concerned.

3)Dashed the enemies' innocent little babies against the stones. Don't even give me the "Nobody is innocent" canard. "Innocent" is a word that we use. We use it in court. We use it in many places.

4) . . . there are obviously other types of reactions.


What amazes me is, at least these three types of individuals existed back then. In my book, person #3 is the worst of the three. Yet, the words of this dispicable type of person were chosen to be included in "God's Word". They could have gotten somebody else to write something nice, without even trying that hard.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Verse 8 is a prophecy promising the destruction of Babylon, Verse 9, is figurative, Babylon represents idolatry; her children are the idol images beloved by her, To destroy these is indeed happiness to the servants of Truth.
 
Hi VirginShallConceive,

This may be more difficult to understand. The Trinity is the same God in the New Testament as the Old.

Revelation 16:3-7

New King James Version (NKJV)

Second Bowl: The Sea Turns to Blood

3 Then the second angel poured out his bowl on the sea, and it became blood as of a dead man; and every living creature in the sea died.
Third Bowl: The Waters Turn to Blood

4 Then the third angel poured out his bowl on the rivers and springs of water, and they became blood. 5 And I heard the angel of the waters saying:
“You are righteous, O Lord,[a]
The One who is and who was and who is to be,[b]
Because You have judged these things.
6 For they have shed the blood of saints and prophets,
And You have given them blood to drink.
For[c] it is their just due.”

7 And I heard another from[d] the altar saying, “Even so, Lord God Almighty, true and righteous are Your judgments.”

These judgements don't even stop here, not to mention the Lake of Fire, but the Scripture tells us that God's judgement is "true and righteous." That was true of the Jews during the Babylonian captivity, and in the destruction of the Babylonians. On the surface, the judgements seem cruel. Why would God dry up the rivers and springs and turn the the water into blood? In my own little understanding, I don't like it. Perhaps if I had more knowledge and wisdom, I wouldn't be so unsettled with such a violent depiction. The better our understanding of God's holiness, the better we can understand the Scriptures.

- Davies


 
Shannon H said:
Verse 8 is a prophecy promising the destruction of Babylon, Verse 9, is figurative, Babylon represents idolatry; her children are the idol images beloved by her, To destroy these is indeed happiness to the servants of Truth.
Click to expand...

Psalms 137:8-9 seems to be talking about Edom. Perhaps Edom was an ally of Babylon(at least against the Jews), with Babylon being the more powerful of the two.

Figurative? Nah.
 
Davies said:
Hi VirginShallConceive,

This may be more difficult to understand. The Trinity is the same God in the New Testament as the Old.

Revelation 16:3-7

New King James Version (NKJV)

Second Bowl: The Sea Turns to Blood

3 Then the second angel poured out his bowl on the sea, and it became blood as of a dead man; and every living creature in the sea died.
Third Bowl: The Waters Turn to Blood

4 Then the third angel poured out his bowl on the rivers and springs of water, and they became blood. 5 And I heard the angel of the waters saying:
“You are righteous, O Lord,[a]
The One who is and who was and who is to be,[b]
Because You have judged these things.
6 For they have shed the blood of saints and prophets,
And You have given them blood to drink.
For[c] it is their just due.â€

7 And I heard another from[d] the altar saying, “Even so, Lord God Almighty, true and righteous are Your judgments.â€

These judgements don't even stop here, not to mention the Lake of Fire, but the Scripture tells us that God's judgement is "true and righteous." That was true of the Jews during the Babylonian captivity, and in the destruction of the Babylonians. On the surface, the judgements seem cruel. Why would God dry up the rivers and springs and turn the the water into blood?
Click to expand...

Hey, Davies, thanks for stopping in and adding some thought-provoking posts.
You bring up some good points, as always.

Davies said:
In my own little understanding, I don't like it. Perhaps if I had more knowledge and wisdom, I wouldn't be so unsettled with such a violent depiction. The better our understanding of God's holiness, the better we can understand the Scriptures.

- Davies
Click to expand...

Yeah, I hear ya . . . and I agree. Fair enough.
 
The idea here is that within the psalmist's future Babylon would be brought down with the same ferocity that Babylon exercised against Jerusalem, by those who reveled in domination just as much as Babylon once did.
 
Sinthesis said:
The idea here is that within the psalmist's future Babylon would be brought down with the same ferocity that Babylon exercised against Jerusalem, by those who reveled in domination just as much as Babylon once did.
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If you remove "Babylon" from your post and replace it with "Edom", I will agree with you(even though I'm sure the author felt the same about Babylon, so maybe I still agree with your post, it's just that I read the author referring to Edom). Do you think that it was the best choice of words? When you think of getting revenge, is this the first thing that pops into your head? " . . . Uh . . . let me think . . . I know! I'll bash their babies against rocks, kinda like something Uday Hussein would do! To prove that this isn't some primeval knee-jerk reaction to my hatred towards the Edomites, I'll write my thoughts down and preserve them!"
 
I read the first four verses as a lamentation for the captivity; the next two as a promise of a return from captivity; then a condemnation of Edom who sat on the sidelines and cheered as Jerusalem was destroyed by Babylon, who is likewise to be destroyed in the final two verses as she destroyed Jerusalem.

Obadiah, Isaiah, and Jeremiah all have prophecy concerning the fate of Edom; none of it good.

Prior to the gospel, praying for God to smite your enemies as they would smite you seemed like the thing to do. Jesus teaches us better.
 
Sinthesis said:
I read the first four verses as a lamentation for the captivity; the next two as a promise of a return from captivity; then a condemnation of Edom who sat on the sidelines and cheered as Jerusalem was destroyed by Babylon, who is likewise to be destroyed in the final two verses as she destroyed Jerusalem.

Obadiah, Isaiah, and Jeremiah all have prophecy concerning the fate of Edom; none of it good.

Prior to the gospel, praying for God to smite your enemies as they would smite you seemed like the thing to do. Jesus teaches us better.
Click to expand...

I agree with this entire post.
 
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