Question about a sensitive subject

[evesforeva]

The sensitive subject is sex. I want to know your opinion on sex.

A little background, I am not a Christian, but I am curious about people's beliefs and sometimes I get curious enough to ask questions at the risk of getting preached at. Also sex is interesting.

I believe in sex positivity. If you haven't heard, some bullet points:

- The sex life should be integrated with the whole life. If the sex you're having conflicts with your spiritual wellbeing, then you you're doing it wrong.

- Not having sex is a valid form of sexual expression. This includes waiting for the right time to start.

- Not having intercourse is a valid form of sexual expression. This differs from not having sex mentioned above. Things like a bubble bath (by yourself) can be sexual if you make it. The person having sex determines what is sex.

- A healthy sex life is well-informed. Accurate knowledge about STI prevention gives people options and the opportunity to take control of their sex lives.

It's more complicated that what I just mentioned and I could go on (and on) but this is good enough for my purposes. With sex positivity, abstinence is embraced, but for different reasons than because God said so. Christianity and sex positivity seem kinda orthogonal to me, but I was wondering if you folks had a different opinion. Is there anything unbiblical about sex positivity?

 

[evenifigoalone]

I believe sex is good and right in it's proper place. I don't think anyone here would argue that it's always wrong.

To me, abstinence until marriage makes sense because even with protection and birth control, accidents can still happen. Basically, don't have sex until you're able to raise a child and provide him with a stable home environment.

 

[evesforeva]

I believe sex is good and right in it's proper place. I don't think anyone here would argue that it's always wrong.

To me, abstinence until marriage makes sense because even with protection and birth control, accidents can still happen. Basically, don't have sex until you're able to raise a child and provide him with a stable home environment.

A lot of the reasoning I hear for abstinence sounds to me like good things that people should just tell young people straight up instead of advocating abstinence. For example, your idea that sex should only happen in a stable home environment. That's different from saying wait until marriage. Is it more biblical to advocate abstinence or advocate things like a stable home environment?

Also I have gotten curious about whether people have heard about sex positivity and what they have heard about it. I don't want to be one of those people who assume that you're ignorant.

 

[evenifigoalone]

A lot of the reasoning I hear for abstinence sounds to me like good things that people should just tell young people straight up instead of advocating abstinence.

I do think parents ought to talk about the reasons behind abstinence.

For example, your idea that sex should only happen in a stable home environment. That's different from saying wait until marriage. Is it more biblical to advocate abstinence or advocate things like a stable home environment?

I don't think the Bible talks about the latter in relation to this subject, though I could be wrong. To me it's just common sense.

Also I have gotten curious about whether people have heard about sex positivity and what they have heard about it. I don't want to be one of those people who assume that you're ignorant.

I'll be honest that I don't know much about it, though I have probably read something related to it and not realized it.

I don't think sex is something to be ashamed of, that we should feel terrible just for thinking or talking about. But there are times and places where it's not appropriate.
Lust is a sin, according to the Bible. I think there are appropriate ways to help control your sex drive without sinning, but I won't get into that here.

 

[evesforeva]

I don't think sex is something to be ashamed of, that we should feel terrible just for thinking or talking about. But there are times and places where it's not appropriate.
Lust is a sin, according to the Bible. I think there are appropriate ways to help control your sex drive without sinning, but I won't get into that here.

I think my initial guess was right. Sex positivity is not unbiblical, just often forgotten. No one is advocating that sex is always appropriate, but sex positivity does advocate that people should think about the positive aspects of sex more often. The worrying and the fear is unfounded. I think I should start taking a strong stance for people to see sex in a positive light.

 

[handy]

I admit to having looked up the term... and using that most baleful (but so easy) resource, Wikipedia.

If this wiki statement about sex positivity is true:

"The sex-positive movement is an ideology which promotes and embraces open sexuality with few limits beyond an emphasis on safe sex and the importance of informed consent. Sex positivity is "an attitude towards human sexuality that regards all consensual sexual activities as fundamentally healthy and pleasurable, and encourages sexual pleasure and experimentation. The sex-positive movement is a social and philosophical movement that advocates these attitudes. The sex-positive movement advocates sex education and safer sex as part of its campaign."http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sex-positive_movement#cite_note-Gabosch-0 The movement makes no moral distinctions among types of sexual activities, regarding these choices as matters of personal preference."

Then yes, there is a lot that is unbiblical about the sex-positive ideology. In the bible, sex is a very positive thing... something God gave us as not only a way to procreate but to also intimately connect to one other person, two becoming one. However, not only are "all consensual sexual activities" not considered fundamentally healthy... all sexual activities, except that between a husband and wife, is considered sinful, with the exception of levirite marriage (a provision to secure a childless widow's status and economic security within OT society). There are definitely moral distinctions made regarding sexual activities in the Scriptures.

 

[evesforeva]

In the bible, sex is a very positive thing... something God gave us as not only a way to procreate but to also intimately connect to one other person, two becoming one. However, not only are "all consensual sexual activities" not considered fundamentally healthy... all sexual activities, except that between a husband and wife, is considered sinful.

I have a different view on sex positivity than wikipedia (IMHO a more nuanced view). Even so your description of biblical sex seems to be at odds with my view of sex positivity. Three major conflicts I see are the requirements that sex be a connection between two people, rather than an inherently individual experience that can potentially be shared, the lack of mention of any pleasure involved in sex, and the emphasis on the sinful kinds of sex, rather than focusing on what's good about the good stuff. Once again I find my sense of right and wrong at odds with the biblical way of looking at things.

Your description of why to wait til marriage doesn't seem to be about marriage at all. It sounds more like we should wait for The One. That one person who were supposed to connect with. Whether we have sex with that person before or after marriage seems arbitrary.

 

[handy]

The lack of a mention of pleasure wasn't because sex isn't to be pleasurable... it should be. Not that it always is... as a matter of fact, many times for women, throughout the world, it rarely is. This wasn't God's plan at all... He designed the woman to feel intense pleasure in sex as well as the man... but things such as cultural issues, etc. etc.... have wreaked a lot of havoc with God's plan of sex being a source of intense pleasure... and pleasure that increases bonds of intimacy for both husband and wife.

As far as sex being an inherently individual experience... yes, this is very much at odds with the Christian perspective. According to the bible the husband and wife are to give one's self totally over to the other for the sexual experience. This isn't to say that sex can never be an individual experience... and sincere Christians differ on whether the Scriptures teaches that self pleasure is sinful behavior or not (I come down on the side that it is not sinful). But, sex is first and foremost to be shared between husband and wife.

As for there being The One... I don't believe in that concept. Again, this is something that Christians have differing opinions regarding. Frankly, I don't believe that God sits up in heaven and personally chooses mates for humans. He has laid out for us principles regarding our sexuality, as well as what we should look for as far as godly husband or wife... after that, I think as long as we stay within the few perimeters He laid out, He's willing to bless whatever union we desire.

But, one of the perimeters He did lay out was that the "marriage bed is to be undefiled"... in other words, don't bring the emotional, mental and very often physical baggage of a lot of sexual experiences to the marriage. When two virgins commit their lives and bodies to each other, each concerning him or herself to the fulfillment of the desires and pleasures of the other... then the marriage is built to be very strong. When there are a lot of mental comparisons..."boy, he sure doesn't do that as well as John did" or physical issues "Honey, not tonight, the herpes are flaring..." well, that "defiles" the marriage bed in the eyes of God... and has contributed greatly in the overall breakdown of marriage that we've seen since the "free love" movement of the '60s', which in turn has had an enormous impact on the ability of many children to grow up in an intact home in which mom and dad truly love each other.

What non-Christians decide to do regarding their own sexuality is really not the business of the Church... (some historical and current political trends notwithstanding)... however, Christianity itself is defined by bringing our own wills under the will of God...our sexual will included.

As far as the "emphasis on the sinful kinds of sex, rather than focusing on what's good about the good stuff" that's reality my dear. A couple can spend their life together focusing one what's good about the good stuff... but, more and more frequently, families and societies are paying the price for ignoring that God calls sin "sin" for a reason. My husband, his folks and his older brother were in tears just last weekend remembering the eldest son who died of AIDS almost 20 years ago now... my son's best friend is dealing with having to move to a different town, away from all his friends, his dad, and his older brother because his mom left his dad for another man... my daughter was crushed when she found out a guy that she thought truly liked her for herself was only interested in getting into her pants... I went through six years of sexual abuse, from the time I was 6 years old to the time I was 12...

Unfettered sex has a very dark underbelly. Just take one week to read Dear Abby, Dear Prudence, Dear Wendy, Dear Caroline, Dear Amy..... and one finds the cost of ignoring God's perimeters for sex is pretty high.


BTW... Welcome to the forum..... this is an interesting discussion!

 

[evesforeva]

Not sure what's wrong with my computer, but I will try to send again. (Or give up and get Ubuntu.)

Unfettered sex has a very dark underbelly.

I think you have mistaken sex positivity for wildness. We believe that our practices will reduce the emotional and physical baggage that can attach itself to sex. People who have proper education about STIs don't get herpes. People who depend on themselves for their sexual pleasure don't have reason to compare who is better at getting them off. Young people who don't equate sex with love can't be tricked into doing things they're not ready for by that "if you truly loved me" line. Your examples of the consequences of sinful sex look to me as examples of the consequences of sex negativity. (Which could be caused by sin if you think of it that way.)

I see a clash in our definition of sex. We don't think of it exclusively in terms of the sort of naked things that entice storks to bring babies. We think of sex as something a sexual being does to release sexual energy. (That's a bit of an oversimplification, but basically.) I keep giving examples of things that are traditionally thought of as sexual, but it doesn't seem to be resonating. It goes way beyond intercourse and the m-word. You can have sex by yourself, clothes on, without gonads. Which gives me a new question: how does the Bible define sex?

Thanks for the welcome though I too think this is an interesting discussion.