Question about shootings

[Rick W]

If a person kills another (or more) then turns the gun on himself/herself has that person paid for his/her crime? Is their name cleared? Does that make the killings a non-issue in regard to the shooter because he/she chose to exact the ultimate penalty upon themselves? If I go into a mall with a loaded 357, come up behind somebody, point the weapon point blank at the back of their head and pull the trigger then kill myself does this mean my name is cleared?


I would say no.
That person should be remembered as a murderer even though they shot themselves after the act. And I don't believe circumstances beforehand, like someone being disgruntled by someone they know or even don't know, justifies their actions even when they kill themselves. Anyway, consider this an assault on a stranger.

I realize suicide is against God and is a sin. But religion aside I'm curious as to how others see this crime after the deed is done. Not so much legally but morally.
Again, I say no. That person is a murderer whether they exacted the penalty upon themselves or not. Regardless of the shooter's death the crime is still a crime against society.

 

[Solo]

I agree. One who murders another and then murders oneself is a murderer.

 

[Fnerb]

If a person kills someone and then themselves they have taken two lives that were not theirs to take.

Regardless of whether you view him shooting himself as paying for their crime, they are still a murderer.

 

[peace4all]

they are in teh wrong for murdering someone in the first place. Killing ones self afterwards is just the "easy" way out

 

[Relic]

I would tend to ask these questons:

Without repentance, sincere repenatance is there redemption?
Is there redemption for someone who sets out with intent to kill knowing full well that after the murder is done they will ask for repentance?

Or, is there redemption when one has murdered, but in the last instance without forethought of intent to ask for forgiveness, asks for forgiveness in the end of the matter?

The sinner on the cross... he didn't find forgiveness but until the moment of his dying on the cross along side of Jesus. But the person who was along the other side of Jesus on the cross, he did not ask for for forgiveness.

I would think that anyone who commits to any type of sin thinking that they will be forgiven because "after" they have committed the crime, they intend on asking for forgiveness, that it is a spiteful act. I then think of Matthew in which Jesus says I never knew you ye workers of iniquity.


What about women who have had just one abortion? And they, after the fact, have remorse and ask for forgiveness? Would Jesus say to them your sins are forgiven, "Go and sin no more" ?

What about the women who have had multiple abortions and ask for forgiveness after each one? Would Jesus forgive them 7 x 70, or would Jesus say to them "I never knew you ye worker of iniquity" ?

Are such teachings applicable to the murderer as they are to the person who commited adultery, those who have stolen, or was hypicritical as the Pharisees were?


Are these scenarios and rules of forgiveness relative to the one who sets out to murder in cold blood as you have depicted in the OP?

Those who crashed into the building on the day of 9/11, did they ask for forgiveness the moment they did the horrendous act? If they did without premeditated intent to ask for forgiveness, are they then forgiven?

Did Judas ask for forgiveness before he hung himself? I'm sure he had complete remorse for betraying Jesus, else he wouldn't have hung himself, would he? If Judas didn't hand Christ over to the Romans, would that have stopped Jesus from being crucified on the cross?

Why does anything happen the way it does? Why are some people used as examples of horrendous sin and others are spared from such atrocities?

Sometimes I get so confused when questions such as these are presented.

Who is forgiven and who is not? Well, I ask this..... How is it for us to know what they asked of God at the very moment of their death or at the very moment of murdering another?

Remorse or not, asking for forgiveness in the last moment without premeditation of it, or not? That is the question and the mystery of which we do not know How God would deal with those people.


Abortion is no less of a crime. It grieves me to know that people are being brainwashed into thinking there is no crime in commiting to abortion, but yet.... how many women have intent of asking for forgiveness "before" they commit to the act? : How many women have committed suicide afterward? Remorse.... is at the root of many a suicide. But suicide for the sake of not having to deal with the consequences of societies laws, not ever seeking for forgiveness of it? What is that? Hell, forever in hell having remorse forever in hell?

Does that mean their whole soul is lost in hell, that there is no means of redemption for someone who had nary a thought of remorse?

.
Sorry PotLuck, I got carried away wondering about the different scenarios pertaining to murder. : i.e. , repentance, asking for forgiveness, or no repentance nor any asking for forgiveness, premeditated or not? So many variables. :smt017

The person who has not Christ Jesus as their foundation for living in this life..... Woe :

Pray, we are kept from sin, that we are not mislead, that we are fixed on the saving, redeeming Holy Spirit of Christ Jesus, to Go and sin no more.



.

 

[Rick W]

Sorry PotLuck, I got carried away wondering about the different scenarios pertaining to murder. i.e. , repentance, asking for forgiveness, or no repentance nor any asking for forgiveness, premeditated or not? So many variables.

No problem relic but I was hoping to keep the spiritual views to a minimum since it's rather obvious God is against such things.
But not all here are so spiritually minded. So, I'm trying to leave reference to God's Word out of the picture to reduce those variables.

To all,
Do these people "go in" knowing they are going to turn the gun on themselves? I think most do. They kill just to kill. Doesn't matter who. They want to die and for some twisted reason want to take someone else with them.
Do they feel justice is served by orchestrating their own death? I think so. And again, for those who observe this behavior, like you and me, do you consider their death as justice served?
I say no, justice is not served to exonerate their memory. If living knowing they are murderers is too much for them then why do the crime in the first place? They know they are going to kill and it seems that's all that matters. But I see no justice served for their actions simply because they die also. None.

 

[Solo]

No problem relic but I was hoping to keep the spiritual views to a minimum since it's rather obvious God is against such things.
But not all here are so spiritually minded. So, I'm trying to leave reference to God's Word out of the picture to reduce those variables.

To all,
Do these people "go in" knowing they are going to turn the gun on themselves? I think most do. They kill just to kill. Doesn't matter who. They want to die and for some twisted reason want to take someone else with them.
Do they feel justice is served by orchestrating their own death? I think so. And again, for those who observe this behavior, like you and me, do you consider their death as justice served?
I say no, justice is not served to exonerate their memory. If living knowing they are murderers is too much for them then why do the crime in the first place? They know they are going to kill and it seems that's all that matters. But I see no justice served for their actions simply because they die also. None.

All murderers murder for selfish reasons, including those who murder themselves. All sin is selfishness.