Question On Penance

[BradtheImpaler]

Okay, you Catholics will think this question is a "dig" but I really am serious.

Is there a rule of thumb for how many "Our Fathers" and/or "Hail Mary's" a priest will give someone in confession based on their type or quantity of sin, or is it entirely at the priest's disgression? I mean, when I was catholic, we had some "hardline" priests and some "softies". The confessional line for the easy going Father's was always longer. You didn't want the hardliner's cause they'd really rake you over the coals and give you more penance to say. (of course, if you went on line to get the "nicer" Father, you'd wait longer so I guess it worked out the same)

(okay...I have a confession to make : ...I'm sort of serious about this question but I am also ribbing you cause I think the whole set-up's really laughable. Still, I do wonder how they arrive at the number of prayers they give you to say. Is there a chart or something?)

 

[thessalonian]

Call it the Holy Spirit. :-D

No chart. You may think the whole setup is silly but I more peace out of confessing my sins to a priest than anything except the Mass itself. As for penance, it is not limited to the prayers, as God chastises us through the difficulties in life caused by our sins as well. I see them as more token penance rather than a complete penance. We offer our lives daily for our sins and the sins of others. Sorry to hear you were Catholic and rebelled.

 

[thessalonian]

By the way, believe it or not some people do choose the tuff one. There was a little old priest a while back at a local Catholic church who was quite tuff. I loved the guy because he gave it to me straight. Also many Catholics do what is called spiritual direction which is quite tuff.

 

[BradtheImpaler]

Call it the Holy Spirit. :-D

No chart. You may think the whole setup is silly but I more peace out of confessing my sins to a priest than anything except the Mass itself. As for penance, it is not limited to the prayers, as God chastises us through the difficulties in life caused by our sins as well. I see them as more token penance rather than a complete penance. We offer our lives daily for our sins and the sins of others. Sorry to hear you were Catholic and rebelled.

I'm not sorry :D I am glad to be free of that guilt trip.

 

[thessalonian]

In other words the best way to get rid of sin is to deny it or deny that you committ it?

 

[BradtheImpaler]

By the way, believe it or not some people do choose the tuff one. There was a little old priest a while back at a local Catholic church who was quite tuff. I loved the guy because he gave it to me straight. Also many Catholics do what is called spiritual direction which is quite tuff.

I was around 12 years old the last time I went to confession, and it was the last time I entered any Catholic church (except for weddings or funerals)

We had this new priest who was right off the boat from Ireland and "on fire" for all things catholic. I knelt in the confessional, as always, till the little door slid open (usually 2 or 3 excruciating minutes which form some of my earliest memories of introduction to the wonderful world of anxiety :-? ) I began...

"Bless me father, for I have sinned. It has been 6 months since my last confession..."

Then an audible *GASP* from the shadowy figure behind the screen. I plunged ahead anyway, enumerating whatever other sins I had memorized as committing, but I knew I had dropped a bomb with that first one - the horror and infamy of not having been to confession in 6 months : Well, I thought, at least I was honest. I mean I could have said it had been 2 weeks and he probably wouldn't have known. So I waited in the dark little Inquisitional chamber after finishing, hoping against hope that I wouldn't burst into flame. I waited...and waited...finally he spoke. Sounding like a cast member from the "Quiet Man", he said...

"Ya know yer goin' ta hell?"

:o

"Say 25 Our Father's and 25 Hail Mary's"

I proceeded to the altar railing. Got through about half of those vainly repetitious prayers (you know, the kind I later found out Jesus said NOT to use?) and I thought, "If I'm "goin' ta hell", what's the point of all these prayers, or even going back to confession or church again? So I stood up and walked out, right in the midst of my 13th or 14th Hail Mary. And I felt good, I felt FREE :D I realized that I didn't really believe the whole deal anyway. I had been sent to Church as I had been sent to school and just expected to believe that an infinite, all-wise God had instituted this whole obviously humanly contrived system.

That afternoon marked an important step in growing up for me. "Rebellious"? Yes, a very minor act of rebellion, but rebellion is necessary at times.

 

[BradtheImpaler]

In other words the best way to get rid of sin is to deny it or deny that you committ it?

Confessing to a priest (who is possibly a greater sinner than you or I himself) is not the way to get rid of sin. It is a psychological way of getting rid of GUILT. Since I don't believe I am any worse (or better) than anyone else, I have no such guilt. If you don't feel guilty, organized religion loses it's power over you. Try it, it'll make a whole new man out of you :wink:

 

[thessalonian]

Funny thing is when I come out of the confessional my guilt is removed so your words contradict my experience. Did you quit going to confession because you had guillt? Then confession is not the reason for your guilt at all. God does not work through sinners? Evidently you haven't read the Bible or at least understood it. Seems you have just found a justification for your sin to placate your mind. Some would call it a seared conscience. Ignoring my sin is not a good way of making it go away. And by the way, getting rid of my sin is by the grace of Christ and HIS forgiveness through the priest who is simply God's instrument in the confession of sins. Perhaps you have missed that perspective on the sacrament of confession.

 

[BradtheImpaler]

Funny thing is when I come out of the confessional my guilt is removed so your words contradict my experience

If that's what you need - to each his own. I no longer have guilt, so neither the confessional nor the system in general has any hold on me, nor do I have need of it.

Did you quit going to confession because you had guillt? Then confession is not the reason for your guilt at all

Maybe I wasn't clear? Guilt is not the reason I went to confession nor the reason I stopped going. I went to confession because my parents made me go, and I stopped going when I came to believe there was no reality behind it.

God does not work through sinners? Evidently you haven't read the Bible or at least understood it

I read the bible and I didn't come across any confessional boxes, holy water, or "Hail Mary's". Too bad I didn't read it as a young Catholic but they didn't encourage that - they had me too busy memorizing the Act of Contrition, et. al.

Seems you have just found a justification for your sin to placate your mind. Some would call it a seared conscience. Ignoring my sin is not a good way of making it go away

I am free of the constraints of organized religion and you'd like me to start feeling guilty so I'll be sucked back in? Not gonna happen. If you need something to placate your guilt, then pay your money, light your candles, climb Scala Santa's "Steps of Sorrow" on your knees, knock yourself out. Guilt is a terrible thing to live with, especially when it keeps coming back every time you get it cleaned up. Do what you have to do to get inner peace, my friend.

And by the way, getting rid of my sin is by the grace of Christ and HIS forgiveness through the priest who is simply God's instrument in the confession of sins. Perhaps you have missed that perspective on the sacrament of confession.

Well, I don't really believe in "sacraments" so I'm not real concerned with the perspective. And, again, if you feel you need a priest in addition to the grace of Christ for forgiveness, go for it. I really don't want to get into another debate on Catholicism ing: I was just curious about how the amount of penance in confession is arrived at. Thank you for the answer

 

[thessalonian]

I read the bible and I didn't come across any confessional boxes, holy water, or "Hail Mary's". Too bad I didn't read it as a young Catholic but they didn't encourage that - they had me too busy memorizing the Act of Contrition, et. al.

Numbers 5
17. and the priest shall take holy water in an earthenware vessel; and he shall take some of the dust that is on the floor of the tabernacle and put it into the water.

Not in the Bible anywhere eh? Confessional boxes are hardly a doctrinal item. I can go to confession anywhere. THe angel Gabriels says to Mary, "Hail Mary, full of grace, the Lord is with the". Evidently you don't remember the prayer. Last half just asks here to pray for us. You don't think praying for others is in the Bible? Odd. Maybe you have one of those Paulician Bibles.

I am free of the constraints of organized religion and you'd like me to start feeling guilty so I'll be sucked back in? Not gonna happen. If you need something to placate your guilt, then pay your money, light your candles, climb Scala Santa's "Steps of Sorrow" on your knees, knock yourself out. Guilt is a terrible thing to live with, especially when it keeps coming back every time you get it cleaned up. Do what you have to do to get inner peace, my friend.

I don't live with guilt. Evidently you missed that. You've rolled your own religion. That's nice. Sad it's not on the Rock.

Well, I don't really believe in "sacraments" so I'm not real concerned with the perspective. And, again, if you feel you need a priest in addition to the grace of Christ for forgiveness, go for it. I really don't want to get into another debate on Catholicism ing: I was just curious about how the amount of penance in confession is arrived at. Thank you for the answer

It's not about feeling the need for a preist. It's what Christ taught.


Your welcome.

 

[BradtheImpaler]

Numbers 5
17. and the priest shall take holy water in an earthenware vessel; and he shall take some of the dust that is on the floor of the tabernacle and put it into the water.

Not in the Bible anywhere eh?

Sorry, my mistake : I didn't realize the instructions regarding the tabernacle and the Torah and all that were still being followed by your church? (Somewhere I got this crazy idea about a New Covenant and the veil of the temple being rent?) Tell me, when your priest makes the unfaithful wife drink the holy water mixed with dust have you ever seen her "thigh waste away and her abdomen swell"? (Numbers.5)

Confessional boxes are hardly a doctrinal item. I can go to confession anywhere. THe angel Gabriels says to Mary, "Hail Mary, full of grace, the Lord is with the". Evidently you don't remember the prayer

I remember it being a statement not a prayer.

Last half just asks her to pray for us. You don't think praying for others is in the Bible? Odd. Maybe you have one of those Paulician Bibles

"...Should not a people consult their God? Should they consult the dead on behalf of the living? (Isa.8:19)

I don't live with guilt. Evidently you missed that

You said when you exit the confessional your guilt is removed, but then you're back again in a few weeks or less, right? Kinda sounds like you're living with guilt :smt119:

You've rolled your own religion. That's nice. Sad it's not on the Rock

If I have a religion, it rests on the "rock" of reality, where the "Holy Trinity" is reason, observation, and experience.

It's not about feeling the need for a preist. It's what Christ taught

Christ and the Apostles teach us to confess our sins only to a member of a formal priesthood - gotcha (which bible should I be reading again?)

 

[thessalonian]

My guess is if I say black you will say white.

God bless you Mr. Impaler

To pierce with a sharp stake or point.
To torture or kill by impaling.
To render helpless as if by impaling.

 

[Lewis]

Hey don't stop now, I am enjoying this.

 

[Solo]

Hey don't stop now, I am enjoying this.

I thought it was an interesting exchange as well. 8-)

 

[BradtheImpaler]

My guess is if I say black you will say white.

God bless you Mr. Impaler

To pierce with a sharp stake or point.
To torture or kill by impaling.
To render helpless as if by impaling.

I endeavor to render falsehoods helpless. The end effect on the person afflicted by these falsehoods is positive. A vaccination can hurt, but it's good for you.

 

[BradtheImpaler]

Thess,

Here's the problem I have with coming back to the Church...

As I related, I had to say 25 OF's and 25 HM's the last time I went to confession, having not been for 6 months before that. I just crunched some numbers, and, figuring in all the years I have not been to confession since that last time, my penance is going to be somewhere around 2000 OF's and 2000 HM's :o

That's 4000 prayers. That's over 30 hours of penance :smt075

I need to know if there's a way I can get off with a lesser sentence? Is a "plea bargain" possible? I don't think I can do 30 hours, especially since I'll have to go back to confession before I finish (I'll have to pray in increments) and then I'll no doubt have more penance which will overlap and I may never catch up.

Is there a really easy-going Father you can recommend for me to see? Someone like Bing Crosby in "The Bells of St. Mary's? (who may break into a song in the midst of my new confession and possibly forget the penance part altogether?)

:wink:

 

[thessalonian]

It would seem you are now ridiculing what I consider to be sacred.

 

[thessalonian]

Hey don't stop now, I am enjoying this.

Well then why don't you join in on the fray and cast some stones and ridicule of things you clearly don't understand as well. Then go off and roll your own God too. You might as well.

 

[moniker]

Brad you do realize that saying the Ave Maria consistently is meant as a means of meditation, correct? Time to reflect on what all you did, why you did it, and how you can strive to not do it again. An unexamined life is not worth living, and if you can look back and not see any room for improvement then congratulations and good luck in your infallible future. Other people aren't so fortunate and feel a need to consult with their priest and with God in order to become a better person.

 

[Lewis]

Hey don't stop now, I am enjoying this.

Well then why don't you join in on the fray and cast some stones and ridicule of things you clearly don't understand as well. Then go off and roll your own God too. You might as well.

Nope, I am not going to throw stones. Thess you arlready no where I stand on the RCC subject, so I don't have to voice it over and over.