westtexas said:
I think what we should have named this thread is "What she really meant is"
Indeed. It seems clarity is definitely lacking.
1. EGW said she saw a temple in the Holy City--John said (Rev. 21:22 And I saw no temple therein)
SDA and Lionel's answer -what she really meant was the present heaven not the Holy City
Question: Just out of curiously what leads you to assume EGW was referring to the Heavenly city in Revelation 21 after it came down out of heaven and not before? Is it not possible for God to have given that vision to a faithful child of His?
Here's the entire entry:
"Dear Brother Bates: Last Sabbath we met with the dear brethren and sisters here, who meet at Brother Howland's. We felt an unusual spirit of prayer. And as we prayed, the Holy Ghost fell upon us. We were very happy. Soon I was lost to earthly things, and was wrapped up in a vision of God's glory. I saw an angel swiftly flying to me. He quickly carried me from the earth to the Holy City.
In the city I saw a temple, which I entered. I passed through a door before I came to the first veil. This veil was raised, and I passed into the holy place. I saw the altar of incense, the candlestick with seven lamps, and the table on which was the shewbread, et cetera. After viewing the glory of the holy, Jesus raised the second veil, and I passed into the Holy of Holies.
In the Holiest I saw an ark; on the top and sides of it was purest gold. On each end of the ark was a lovely cherub, with their wings spread over it. Their faces were turned towards each other, and they looked downwards. Between the angels was a golden censer. Above the ark, where the angels stood, was an exceeding bright glory, that appeared like a throne where God dwelt. Jesus stood by the ark."
It seems to me that EGW was referring specifically to the Heavenly Sanctuary that, until the city of New Jerusalem comes down, does indeed have a temple in it. That is of course unless you believe Paul was speaking metaphorically about Jesus being our heavenly High Priest.
Therefore, when Christ has finished his ministry in the Heavenly Sanctuary, and has redeemed his people, there will be no more use for the New Jerusalem Temple, than there was for the Temple at Old Jerusalem, after Jesus had nailed the ceremonial law to the cross. John had a view of the Holy City when it shall come down, Rev. 21 : 10, at the close of the 1000 years, Rev. 20 : 7--9, and said, “And I saw no temple therein : for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are the temple of itâ€â€Rev. 21 : 22. He does not tell us what had become of it ; but his saying that he saw no Temple therein at that time, indicates that he had seen one there before. The Holy City is called the Tabernacle of God, Rev. 21 : 3 ; Isa. 33 : 20 ; but it is not called so, until it is situated on the New Earth. The City is also called the Temple of God, Rev. 17 : 15 ; but not until the saints are raised, and gathered up into the City, where they will serve God “day and night.†Then the Holy City alone, will be the Tabernacle, or Temple of God.
I suppose it is easier to criticize than it is to honestly search for answers.
2. Wm. Miller predicted Christ's second coming would be in 1843--EGW has vision which agrees (Early Writings pg. 74) This did not occur
EGW's answer--what she really meant was 1844
Page 74 verbatim:
The Gathering Time
September 23, the Lord showed me that He had stretched out His hand the second time to recover the remnant of His people, [SEE PAGE 86.] and that efforts must be redoubled in this gathering time. In the scattering, Israel was smitten and torn, but now in the gathering time God will heal and bind up His people. In the scattering, efforts made to spread the truth had but little effect, accomplished but little or nothing; but in the gathering, when God has set His hand to gather His people, efforts to spread the truth will have their designed effect. All should be united and zealous in the work. I saw that it was wrong for any to refer to the scattering for examples to govern us now in the gathering; for if God should do no more for us now than He did then, Israel would never be gathered. I have seen that the 1843 chart was directed by the hand of the Lord, and that it should not be altered; that the figures were as He wanted them; that His hand was over and hid a mistake in some of the figures, so that none could see it, until His hand was removed. [THIS APPLIES TO THE CHART USED DURING THE 1843 MOVEMENT, AND HAS SPECIAL REFERENCE TO THE CALCULATION OF THE PROPHETIC PERIODS AS IT APPEARED ON THAT CHART. THE NEXT SENTENCE EXPLAINS THAT THERE WAS AN INACCURACY WHICH IN THE PROVIDENCE OF GOD WAS SUFFERED TO EXIST. BUT THIS DOES NOT PRECLUDE THE PUBLICATION OF A CHART SUBSEQUENTLY WHICH WOULD CORRECT THE MISTAKE, AFTER THE 1843 MOVEMENT WAS PAST, AND THE CALCULATION AS THEN MADE HAD SERVED ITS PURPOSE.] {EW 74.1}
Then I saw in relation to the "daily" (Dan. 8:12) that the word "sacrifice" was supplied by man's wisdom, and does not belong to the text, and that the Lord gave the correct view of it to those who gave the
75
judgment hour cry. When union existed, before 1844, nearly all were united on the correct view of the "daily"; but in the confusion since 1844, other views have been embraced, and darkness and confusion have followed. Time has not been a test since 1844, and it will never again be a test. {EW 74.2}
The Lord has shown me that the message of the third angel must go, and be proclaimed to the scattered children of the Lord, but it must not be hung on time. I saw that some were getting a false excitement, arising from preaching time; but the third angels message is stronger than time can be. I saw that this message can stand on its own foundation and needs not time to strengthen it; and that it will go in mighty power, and do its work, and will be cut short in righteousness. {EW 75.1}
Then I was pointed to some who are in the great error of believing that it is their duty to go to Old Jerusalem, [SEE APPENDIX.] and think they have a work to do there before the Lord comes. Such a view is calculated to take the mind and interest from the present work of the Lord, under the message of the third angel; for those who think that they are yet to go to Jerusalem will have their minds there, and their means will be withheld from the cause of present truth to get themselves and others there. I saw that such a mission would accomplish no real good, that it would take a long while to make a very few of the Jews believe even in the first advent of Christ, much more to believe in His second advent. I saw that Satan had greatly deceived some in this thing and that souls all around them in this land could be helped by them and led to keep the commandments of God, but they were leaving them to perish. I also saw that Old Jerusalem never would be built up; and that Satan was doing his utmost to lead the minds of the children of the Lord into these things now, in the gathering time, to keep
3. EGW says God's hand hid a mistake in the calculations and when He removed His hand it was apparent that the end would be 1844 (Early Writings pg. 236) This did not occur
James White's answer--what she really meant was 1845
Page 236 verbatim:
They were the first to turn and ridicule the sorrowful, disappointed ones who really loved the appearing of their Saviour. I saw the wisdom of God in proving His people and giving them a searching test to discover those who would shrink and turn back in the hour of trial. {EW 235.3}
Jesus and all the heavenly host looked with sympathy and love upon those who had with sweet expectation longed to see Him whom their souls loved. Angels were hovering around them, to sustain them in the hour of their trial. Those who had neglected to receive the heavenly message were left in darkness, and God's anger was kindled against them, because they would not receive the light which He had sent them from heaven. Those faithful, disappointed ones, who could not understand why their Lord did not come, were not left in darkness. Again they were led to their Bibles to search the prophetic periods. The hand of the Lord was removed from the figures, and the mistake was explained. They saw that the prophetic periods reached to 1844, and that the same evidence which they had presented to show that the prophetic periods closed in 1843, proved that they would terminate in 1844. Light from the Word of God shone upon their position, and they discovered a tarrying time--"Though it [the vision] tarry, wait for it." In their love for Christ's immediate coming, they had overlooked the tarrying of the vision, which was calculated to manifest the true waiting ones. Again they had a point of time. Yet I saw that many of them could not rise above their severe disappointment to possess that degree of zeal and energy which had marked their faith in 1843. {EW 236.1}
Satan and his angels triumphed over them, and those who would not receive the message congratulated themselves upon their farseeing judgment and wisdom
4. James White predicts Christ's second coming in July 1845 and Ellen White agrees. (A Word to the Little Flock pg. 22) This did not occur
Joseph Bates' answer--what she really meant was 1850
You would do well to read this:
Appendix M
5. Joseph Bates wrote a tract in 1850 predicting Christ's second coming in Oct. 1851 EGW had a vision on 6/27/1850 agreeing with Bates date (Early Writings pg. 64,67) This did not occur
EGW's answer--what she really meant was soon
On page 19 of A Word to the "Little Flock" appears a short paragraph dealing with the "mark of the beast." This paragraph also was omitted by Mrs. White, but we find an entire chaper devoted to this subject in Early Writings, pages 64-67.
The scripture references which appear in the E. G. White communications in A Word to the "Little Flock" were inserted by James White. With these are six references to Second Esdras of the Apocrypha. James White assumed the full responsibility for the insertion of all these references, as has been noted by his statement appearing at the bottom of page 13, and they constitute no part of Mrs. White's account.
http://www.earlysda.com/flock/lflock-trustees.html
6. 1856 EGW held a conference in Battle Creek and said that there were those present who would not see death before Christ's second coming. This did not occur
SDA and RND"s answer--this was a vision with conditions.
Exactly.
These are quotes and dates directly from some of EGW's books. None of these prophecies came to pass. Let me start your next post for you
WHAT SHE REALLY MEANT WAS
You can start that post if you want. But why would you? Your mind is made up and there really is no reason to pursue anything further. Unless you like chasing your tail! :crazy
