Not_Now.Soon
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- Aug 16, 2015
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- #21
Don't get me wrong on sights of law. The questions I asked myself on these matters many years ago, after salvation, was a simple one.
Why was the law needed in the first place?
And ultimately that reasonable question leads headlong into a scriptural study of lawlessness and it's source, which proves to be one of the most interesting and entirely fascinating engagements of the scriptures.
Were these matters only matters of societal engagements, equity, fair dealings and organization, that is one thing. But the law contains much harsher elements called "penalties" for lawbreakers, some of which include death. So, yeah. It's a pretty serious study, this issue of lawlessness in the universal population.
And equally, obviously, since I believe in what Jesus said here:
Luke 4:4
And Jesus answered him, saying, It is written, That man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word of God.
Which same was duplicated in Matt. 4:4 and Deut. 8:3, I see this as applicable not only to Israel, but to "man" in the universal sense of application.
And, when all the chips fall out on this matter, we would find that there is an operating principle that God in Christ Himself has placed upon the earth and every person therein. And that is the "factual internal condition" of lawlessness. This brings up a plethora of other issues, which I noted prior, and that is this: Can anyone who is internally lawless be truly, truthfully lawful?
And the answer to that is a resounding no, because of the presence of indwelling sin.
Many in christiandom falsely think that the law has failed to achieve or that Gods Words are/were only applicable to Israel or not applicable or whatever to them. I do not hold that view. The law was delivered precisely to bring us "all" to the point of understanding, even receiving Divine Mercy based on the likewise facts of being sinners. And this being predicated on our Supreme Maker actually placing us in such needs. So, I throw myself on the Divine Mercy of our Maker in this regards, which is ultimately "where" the law led me. I do not think of or see this as a bad arrangement.
Many believers also think that God acquits the lawless. And that is also not the case.
Isaiah 31:2
Yet he also is wise, and will bring evil, and will not call back his words: but will arise against the house of the evildoers, and against the help of them that work iniquity.
This "bringing of evil" is as clear as a bell in the O.T. And done precisely because the people of Israel, the first called out to engage with Gods avalanche of law were in fact sinners just like everyone else is. Even the bringing of evil being directed by God Himself. So, yeah, I take these matters exceptionally seriously. And understand that this is done precisely by God Himself for many reasons. To show His Superiority, and to deliver Divine Mercy being pre-emminent. There is no amount of lawkeeping that will escape the fact that we all have indwelling sin, and are all therefore sinners, period, and this shows our need for Divine Mercy.
Does that mean that Divine Mercy extends to all? Certainly not. Here for example, we see that both forgiveness and the opposite, that there will be no forgiveness, are simultaneously delivered. And this is where most law studies go off the rails because we think it's one way for us and another way for other sinners. That is not the case.
Exodus 34:7
Keeping mercy for thousands, forgiving iniquity and transgression and sin, and that will by no means clear the guilty;
And, I would end this exercise of scriptural fact here, with Paul's sights of himself, which Paul knew full well, and openly showed us, which will stick solidly in the craw of every viewing believer:
2 Corinthians 12:7
And lest I should be exalted above measure through the abundance of the revelations, there was given to me a thorn in the flesh, the messenger of Satan to buffet me, lest I should be exalted above measure.
The law is in fact against the sinners, who also include the devil (1 John 3:8 shows us that the devil is also a "sinner") and his messengers. They are completely lawless and can not nor will they ever be forgiven.
So, how many devils in the flesh of mankind do we think will be legal or lawful upon the earth? Uh, that would be a big fat zero. Only 1 of the parties in 2 Cor. 12:7 was forgiven and saved and even lawful in the spiritual sense of Romans 13:8-10. The other party, the exact opposite.
So, now, what you make of the law as it applies to the devil and his messengers is really the case of God's Laws. Seeing them as only applicable to people is a scriptural theological wasteland because none of such studies take into account, the other parties.
What you will find is this. That the laws of God were precisely made to aggravate the other parties, to arouse them, even to empower them unto disobedience. And this, regardless of how the person themselves see anything of Gods Laws.
There is in fact a whole other entity class, unseen, that is also involved with Gods Laws. This Divine Dynamic is set in place by God Himself, and can not be changed until the other parties run their courses of judgments on/in the earth. That is also why the Laws of God will not pass away, not one jot or tittle, til "these parties" are finally utterly destroyed.
What you will see is a continual amplification of lawlessness, until God's Purposes of judgments upon them are fulfilled. Just as it was with physical pharaoh and physical Egypt of the past, we will see again, in the spiritual senses. And if any do not see, they are not meant to see. And this by Gods Present Workings "against" the other parties in their own flesh.
I have been led to detest liars and posers. And there is another working in all, even in my own flesh, that I detest, and understand that God in Christ Himself does work against that working and worker. Yes, christians, God in Christ is not the friend of "your" entirety. Look at Paul's condition of Paul's flesh and you will see your enemy and Gods enemy therein.
There you will find a very real and legitimate FEAR of God in Christ.
This is a fear that has shook me to my core, and brought me headlong into His Mercy.
And now, Gods Laws, all of them, are my ally, showing me His Ways of dealings with the other parties. And they are not pretty, nor will they be prettier in the future.
.... You know I'm kind of stumped on what to say. I can't really say that I disagree with you about the laws being about bigger and greater concerns. I have a simular view actually. So because of that I can't say let's agree to disagree and try to move along in the conversation, or move on to future conversations. But on the other hand, I don't think the bigger issues that the law is addressing, (the forces that are in rebellion against God), are all that this matter should be concerned about. I don't think that It's a moot point that these laws are the laws that ran Isreal for the duration of it's being till Rome not only occupied it, but then also struck the state of Isreal and scattered the Jewish nation. Even if there is a greater drama of God and the rebellion against God being used through the law, I don't think that the lesser concern of the actual laws and their punishments are without merit as well.
For the record, I'm not arguing that the laws are a step to our salvation, or even that they aren't. I am trying to get a better understanding of the laws and how they are applied or why they were applied in the way they were. To have the death penalty for a rebellious child against his parents is severe in my opinion, because often that is a temporary stage in a person's life. My brother, once caught against my parents when he was a teen, but now it is much different. To thing that this was worthy of death instead of redemetion is a stark and hard thing to comprend when I also thing God is loving and forgiving. When I see where the death penalty to those who murder a free man, but not the death penalty to killing a servant or a slave, I can't see the Justice. The years that these laws were in use I don't think are small enough to gloss over because there are bigger issues that the law was made for. Does that make more sense? If it does, but doesn't seem justified as a concern, then at that point I can say before your answer that we should agree to disagree and move on.