Imagican,
You say Jesus was/is, "part of God", could you explain this to me further? You acknowledge that Christ was part of God, which part of Him was divine in your understanding? I believe He was both fully.
Certainly, although I am NOT one to 'believe' that I MUST 'label' Christ as ANYTHING other than WHAT/WHO He TRULY IS. Christ IS The Son of God, THIS IS His deity, along WITH title. And He IS fully that which has been revealed to us, Christ/Jesus/lamb of God/Son of God/Son of man/Savior/Lord, etc......... What I don't believe that He IS, is 'God the Son'. Just the opposite in fact. FULLY His OWN entity JUST as we too BECOME a Part of Christ when we allow Him into our hearts/ Christ IS a part of the Father. The Father BEING God and Christ BEING The Son. When we accept Christ into our hearts and He 'becomes' a 'part' of US, do we LOOSE our individual selves and become some kind of 'mindless' drones that are UNABLE to 'function' on our own individuality? Do we RELY on The Spirit to 'make our feet move' or 'our lungs' take in air? Of course not, we rely on The Spirit to 'lead' us in SPIRITUAL matters. The Spirit does NOT decide for us WHAT COLOR toilet tissue we purchase. In the SAME repect, Christ is HIS OWN ENTITY. Even 'trinitarians' accept that there are 'three' SEPARATE PERSONS, (I use the word 'entities'. The ONLY difference is that these INSIST that ALL THREE ARE ONE. I too accept that ALL three ARE ONE. But NOT as in, 'the same'. Same purpose, same goal, and as long as Christ follows the WILL OF THE FATHER, SAME WILL.
Now that I have stated that, here's what I have come to understand; Christ IS the Son of God. Christ was/IS also the Son of MAN. Half and Half sort of. The half that IS the Son of God is CERTAINLY devine in essence. For Christ IS the ONLY BEGOTTEN of God, (THE FATHER). But, where the 'dividing line' begins is when one INORES the simplicity that has JUST been stated and INSISTS that Christ IS God, (The Father).
Do you agree that the "part" that was/is God was/is eternal, or do you believe that it began at the incarnation...that the part that was/is God had a beginning in time?
I will answer all three questions at the same time.
NO, I do NOT believe that Christ has ALWAYS 'been'. I DO believe that from His 'creation', He WILL ALWAYS BE. I offered on a 'prevous thread' my understanding of the beginning of John. If one would simply 'try' to read John 'without' the captial W, it THEN begins to become PERFECTLY clear WHO the Word IS. The Word is NOT Christ. The Word IS the Word of God PERIOD. This SAME Word OFFERED to The Son as being an heir to the Father. Given to Him, (in ALL it's power but NOT in it's entirety of content), to 'give to US'. It's ONLY with the 'inception' of the capital W that one could have EVEN BEGUN to accept what the RCC has taught and has been perpetuated by MOST other denominations. For when the 'Protestants' separated from them, they carried MUCH of their doctrine and dogma WITH them. Someone, for SOME REASON, 'placed' the capital W in 'thier' interpretation and translation of The Word. Anyone care to guess 'who' or 'why'?
Eliminate the beginning of John, concernning the Word, and there is LITTLE that 'trinitarianism' has to 'stand on'.
Christ IS the 'firstborn of EVERY CREATURE'. From a 'simple' understanding of this, WITHOUT doctrinal bias, it is CLEAR what this means. OF ALL THE CREATURES EVER CREATED, CHRIST WAS FIRST. For we KNOW that Christ WAS instrumental in the CREATION of ALL that has been created upon this earth. Therefore we know that Christ was 'before' ALL other creation as pertaining to MAN.
As perfect PROOF of this matter; I simply offer this; Christ IS the Son of God. There can be NO Son WITHOUT a Father. And the Father ALWAYS comes BEFORE the Son. And the Son ALWAYS comes FROM the Father. This is NOT word play that is of NECESITY in trying to say 'something else' other than what ACTUALLY IS. Christ IS The Son. PERIOD. God IS The Father, PERIOD. We have been told NOTHING other than this. Yes, there have been 'other things' created from His Word, but the 'truth' is that there has been NOTHING OTHER that has been given. Only in the hearts and minds and imaginations of those that 'choose' to follow the MEN that created these 'other meanings'.How do your reconcile Christ as the Word, being with God, and God? I don't lovely for I do NOT NEED TO. As stated previous, take the captial W off the Word and you will PLAINLY SEE, what I understand. How do you understand the eternal covenant, and that the Holy Spirit proceeding from BOTH the Father, and the Son? Certainly the Son is God if the Holy Spirit proceeds from Him as well. I don't know if I have an EXACT answer to your question for I don't know IF I understand it completely. But let's give it a shot. Christ IS the Son of God. God IS His Father. What Christ has given to us and the power that He has exhibited was GIVEN to Him. As in MOST gifts given to WHOEVER, the gift is 'theirs' to do with as they will. So long as Christ is obedient to the will of the Father, NOTHING has been denied Him other than the PLACE of the Father Himself. To be honest, I do not have a clear understanding of your postion, though I have tried to understand it. I think some believe Christ an angel, and others do not, but simply the Son of God, a man. I ONLY believe in any that you have stated PARTIALLY. if even that. NO, Christ is NOT an angel. This is clear for we know that the ANGELS, as we, are UNDER Him. NO, Christ WAS the Son of God PREVIOUS to 'becoming flesh'. Christ WAS the Son in heaven as HE IS NOW, PREVIOUS to his being born of this earth. ONLY now there is MUCH more glory, for He OVERCAME death in the flesh. I am interested in the likeness of God in Him, and how you see that. We both believe Christ is the Son of God, but I am wondering if you agree that Christ has an eternal divine inheritance, as the Son of God, and that we are allowed to take part of because of our adoption. Absolutely lovely. Absolutely. We TOO are the 'children of God'. If not for the love He has for us, Christ would NEVER have need be sent to fulfill His LOVE FOR US. We KNOW that God loves us, has been since our creation. Christ LOVES us TOO. So much is their love for us that, ONE; God was willing to send HIS SON, (ONLY Begotten), to die for us so that we would not be eternally separated from THEM. TWO; Christ WILLINGLY submitted to the Father's will in that He CAME in the flesh, (imagining how difficult this is for US, what a MAJOR sacrifice it was for Him). and was willing to suffer and eventually DIE an horrible death FOR US. Love that we are hard pressed to even comprehend, MUCH less emulateI am also interested in how you see his priesthood, without lineage...as eternal? His 'priesthood' was irrelevant prior to it's inception. Eternal AFTER the 'fact' of course.
I will stop here, and take this to another thread to avoid getting off topic.
