Questions for Roman Catholics

[Solo]

How are Roman Catholics born again?

Must Roman Catholics participate in the Eucharist in order to be saved?

Are Roman Catholics children of God, then children of the devil, then children of God, depending on whether a mortal sin was committed, confessed, and forgiven?

Do Roman Catholics believe that believing that Jesus Christ died for one's sins, was buried dead, resurrected, and bodily ascended into heaven and confessing the same to others is enough to gain ones entry into the Kingdom of God? Why or why not? If not, what has to happen.

 

[stray bullet]

How are Catholics born again?

One is born (from the Greek, "anothen") "again" or more accurately, from "above" through faith and baptism, whereupon the washing away of sins that Chirst earned for us all occurs by the Holy Spirit.

Must Catholics participate in the Eucharist in order to be saved?

John 6 shows the needed for the Eucharist in the salvation process. However, like baptism as well, it is not an absolute requirement. Rejection of it when it is not kept from you, however, is a very serious matter.

Are Catholics children of God, then children of the devil, then children of God, depending on whether a mortal sin was committed, confessed, and forgiven?

Mortal sins are very rarely committed and do indeed, deprive men of all grace.

Do Roman Catholics believe that believing that Jesus Christ died for one's sins, was buried dead, resurrected, and bodily ascended into heaven and confessing the same to others is enough to gain ones entry into the Kingdom of God? Why or why not? If not, what has to happen.

People, like the thief on the cross, can be saved based on faith in Christ. However, baptism and the Eucharist are integral parts of the salvation process (Paul said he was working out his salvation).

 

[golfjack]

reply

When Paul said he was working out his own salvation, he was talking about the soulish area ( intellect, emotions, and will). It is our spirits that are regenerated through the New Birth. We see this in Romans 8:14-16.



May God bless, golfjack

 

[stray bullet]

Re: reply

When Paul said he was working out his own salvation, he was talking about the soulish area ( intellect, emotions, and will). It is our spirits that are regenerated through the New Birth. We see this in Romans 8:14-16.

It is true that we do not earn or merit our salvation- but it is true that we must continue to preserve and keep up our faith at all times. Salvation comes from Jesus Christ, but through the sacraments, we continue to receive grace and preserve ourselves from falling away from the faith.

Like the parable of the seeds in the soil, we must continue to water our ground.

 

[Solo]

How are Catholics born again?

One is born (from the Greek, "anothen") "again" or more accurately, from "above" through faith and baptism, whereupon the washing away of sins that Chirst earned for us all occurs by the Holy Spirit.

Jesus says that one must be born again, born from above, born of God through believing that Jesus is the one who is the redemption of man, and has died and resurrected from the dead that those that believe can be resurrected from the dead also. This born again, born from above, born of God experience occurs when the Spirit of God reveals the truth to the individual that is born again. Jesus teaches Nicodemus about one being born of the flesh and being born of the Spirit in order for one to see and enter the Kingdom of God. No where in this particular teaching does Jesus make baptism of water imperative.

5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. 6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. 7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again. 8 The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit. John 3:5-8

Jesus says that one must be born of water and of the Spirit. He continues that that which is born of flesh is flesh (born of water), and that which is born of Spirit is spirit (born of the Spirit) The baptism of the Holy Spirit is the born again, born from above, born of God experience that ushers one into the Kingdom of God.

Must Catholics participate in the Eucharist in order to be saved?

John 6 shows the needed for the Eucharist in the salvation process. However, like baptism as well, it is not an absolute requirement. Rejection of it when it is not kept from you, however, is a very serious matter.

Jesus explains that the bread that Moses gave was not the bread from heaven, but that the bread of God is he which cometh down from heaven, and He gives life unto the world. Jesus says, "I am the bread of life: he that cometh to me shall never hunger, and he that believeth on me shall never thirst". Jesus says that those that come to him shall never hunger which is not the case when one consumes the wafer of the Eucharist; and he also says that those that believe will never thirst which is not the case when one consumes the wind of the Eucharist. After one takes the Eucharist, one still gets hungary and thirsty; so Jesus was talking about his being the bread of life in analogous terms indicating that those that follow him and believe him shall never hunger or thirst.

32 Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Moses gave you not that bread from heaven; but my Father giveth you the true bread from heaven. 33 For the bread of God is he which cometh down from heaven, and giveth life unto the world. 34 Then said they unto him, Lord, evermore give us this bread. 35 And Jesus said unto them, I am the bread of life: he that cometh to me shall never hunger; and he that believeth on me shall never thirst. John 6:32-35

Jesus is never kept from anyone, and the belief in him is not regulated to a sociopolitical group who go by the name of Church. An individual believes when the Holy Spirit opens his/her eyes to the truth that Jesus Christ is to be followed and believed.

Jesus continues in his teaching of Him being the bread of life when He tells the Jews that if any man eat of this bread, he shall live forever. Jesus went into detail earlier when he said that those that followed him would not hunger any more, and that those that believed in Him would never thirst. Jesus came in the flesh, and he states that the bread that he is giving is his flesh which he is giving by his death for the life of the world, not so that people can physically eat his flesh. If Jesus truly meant for those that heard this teaching, to eat his flesh and drink his blood for eternal life, he would never have made it to the cross. They would have eaten him. Those that believed understood him to mean that those that followed him would never hunger, and those that believed would never thirst; and he did not mean a physical hunger or thirst. The physical bread that the Jewishs ancestors ate in the wilderness that was manna provided by God, are dead; but the bread of Jesus Christ which is his flesh given for those of us who are believers, have eternal life.

47 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life. 48 I am that bread of life. 49 Your fathers did eat manna in the wilderness, and are dead. 50 This is the bread which cometh down from heaven, that a man may eat thereof, and not die. 51 I am the living bread which came down from heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever: and the bread that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world. 52 The Jews therefore strove among themselves, saying, How can this man give us his flesh to eat? 53 Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you. 54 Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day. 55 For my flesh is meat indeed, and my blood is drink indeed. 56 He that eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, dwelleth in me, and I in him. 57 As the living Father hath sent me, and I live by the Father: so he that eateth me, even he shall live by me. 58 This is that bread which came down from heaven: not as your fathers did eat manna, and are dead: he that eateth of this bread shall live for ever.John 6:47-51

Now again, did Jesus mean for his flesh and blood to be eaten and drank in a physical sense?

No. Jesus' words were not to be taken in the physical sense, but in the spiritual sense. Those that believe are those that have consumed what the Father has given them, the living bread from heaven. Note that Jesus said in verse 63 when he says, "It is the spirit the quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit". The flesh cannot eat that which is spirit. Only those who have been born from above, born again, born of God have consumed the living bread of life which the spirit consumed.

60 Many therefore of his disciples, when they had heard this, said, This is an hard saying; who can hear it? 61 When Jesus knew in himself that his disciples murmured at it, he said unto them, Doth this offend you? 62 What and if ye shall see the Son of man ascend up where he was before? 63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life. 64 But there are some of you that believe not. For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were that believed not, and who should betray him. 65 And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father. John 6:60-65

Are Catholics children of God, then children of the devil, then children of God, depending on whether a mortal sin was committed, confessed, and forgiven?

Mortal sins are very rarely committed and do indeed, deprive men of all grace.

Mortal sins are the sins committed which require penance in the Roman Catholic Church, but one is not required to confess venial sins. The following information was retrieved from Wikipedia:

• A mortal sin must be about a serious matter, have been committed with full consent, and be known to be wrong. Other sins would be classed as venial; confession of venial sins is strongly recommended but not obligatory, and is said to strengthen the penitent against temptation to mortal sin. Serious matters for a mortal sin, according to Catholic teaching, include murder, blasphemy, fornication, the use of artificial contraception, or missing Mass without a good reason on a Sunday or a holy day of obligation. It is a widely held belief of the faith that if a person guilty of mortal sin dies without either receiving the sacrament or experiencing perfect contrition with the intention of confessing to a priest, he/she will receive eternal damnation.
  
  In order for the sacrament to be valid the penitent must do more than simply confess his known mortal sins to a priest. He must a) be truly sorry for each of the mortal sins he committed, b) have a firm intention never to commit them again, and c) perform the penance imposed by the priest. Also, in addition to confessing the types of mortal sins committed, the penitent must disclose how many times each sin was committed, to the best of his/her ability.
  
  The Code of Canon Law requires all Catholics to confess mortal sins at least once a year, although frequent reception of the sacrament is recommended. Traditionally many receive the sacrament during the liturgical seasons of Lent or Advent. In reality many Catholics confess far less or more than is required; of all parts of the faith it is perhaps among the most common to be neglected.

I also understand now that Roman Catholics do not know whether or not they will be saved until after they are judged after their death. The Roman Catholic Church teaches that one cannot know whether they are saved or not because they will not know until after the judgement. This view is entirely wrong according to the scripture.

10 He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son. 11 And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. 12 He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life. 13 These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God. 1 John 5:10-13

Do Roman Catholics believe that believing that Jesus Christ died for one's sins, was buried dead, resurrected, and bodily ascended into heaven and confessing the same to others is enough to gain ones entry into the Kingdom of God? Why or why not? If not, what has to happen.

People, like the thief on the cross, can be saved based on faith in Christ. However, baptism and the Eucharist are integral parts of the salvation process (Paul said he was working out his salvation).

The baptism of the Holy Spirit cannot be replaced with water baptism, however, the obedience of getting baptized as Jesus did gives testimony of the baptism of the Holy Spirit. Jesus baptism did not clean him from sin, but the baptism of Jesus was our example to follow in order to receive the Holy Spirit. Can a person receive the Holy Spirit without being water baptized? Yes. The Holy Spirit moves as he orders, not as man orders.

Are we to work out our salvation? Yes. Believers who are saved should continually walk in the Spirit, and keep in fellowship with God. The scripture tells us not to grieve the Holy Spirit who dwells within us, and has us sealed until the day of redemption.

Those that believe do not need to physically eat anything like the Eucharist for the spiritual birth and promise of eternal life, sealed by the Holy Spirit. It seems to me that the Roman Catholic Church teaches one to work out ones own salvation based on a set of rules orchastrated by a sociopolitical hierchy that oppresses the membership into obedience of man's laws with deceptive pseudobiblical and pseudotraditional commandments.

 

[ZeroTX]

I thought this thread (and this forum) was to explain what Catholics believe, not to argue against it?

-Michael

 

[ZeroTX]

How are Roman Catholics born again?

We are "born again" through the waters of baptism. Info: http://www.catholic.com/library/Born_Ag ... aptism.asp

Must Roman Catholics participate in the Eucharist in order to be saved?

The Eucharist is one of our Sacraments. Our most precious one, as it is the Body & Blood of Christ. We believe it to be so, because he said so in John 6 and because he instituted this practice at the Last Supper. It has also been the tradition passed on from Christ through the Apostles and was never questioned until quite a while after the Reformation. Luther certainly believed in the Eucharist.

Are Roman Catholics children of God, then children of the devil, then children of God, depending on whether a mortal sin was committed, confessed, and forgiven?

I don't know about being "children of the devil," but we are out of a state of grace if we have committed mortal sin that has not been confessed. Now, if someone has felt guilty and has every intention of going to confession as soon as possible, but doesn't make it, and dies, then we are not able to make judgements about it. We can never make judgements about it. It is completely up to the divine mercy of God. The Church does not purport to judge -- only Christ is our judge.

Do Roman Catholics believe that believing that Jesus Christ died for one's sins, was buried dead, resurrected, and bodily ascended into heaven and confessing the same to others is enough to gain ones entry into the Kingdom of God? Why or why not? If not, what has to happen.

Considering this very testimony is what is in the Nicene Creed (which the Catholic Church wrote as a whole), of course we believe in Christ dying for our sins. As for "confessing the same to others," we certainly must confess our belief in this very creed in order to be receive the Sacrament of Confirmation. I, myself, received this Sacrament in 2005, where I proclaimed my belief in these truths before a congregation of over 1,000, and before Christ and all the angels and saints in heaven.

Does this allow me to "gain entry" into the Kingdom of God? Well, I believe that if I continue to live a life for Christ, that I will be able to be with Him forever in heaven. I certainly strive to continue to live my life in a way that is pleasing to God. If I renounced my beliefs either verbally or by action, then I would not necessarily have the right to expect that my prior baptism and confession would cover all future sin. I must repent each time I sin and if it is a mortal sin, it is our belief that we should seek confession to a priest to receive absolution for this. For day to day failings, I do as you do, I pray for God's forgiveness and during each Sunday mass, we confess that we have sinned to our entire congregation and pray for one another. This is a part of the mass (called the Confeitor).

I hope this answers your questions.

God bless,

Michael

 

[thessalonian]

Solo,

Future posts of yours that are debate style, stating your thinking of what Catholics believe will be edited or deleted. This is not a protestant/catholic debate forum.

There are other forums in which you can do your debate and "evangelizing". From what I have seen so far you should perhaps avoid this one.
Thanks for your cooperation in this matter.

 

[Solo]

Solo,

Future posts of yours that are debate style, stating your thinking of what Catholics believe will be edited or deleted. This is not a protestant/catholic debate forum.

There are other forums in which you can do your debate and "evangelizing". From what I have seen so far you should perhaps avoid this one.
Thanks for your cooperation in this matter.

Perhaps you would be so kind as pointing out the differences in my understanding of beliefs and your Roman Catholic beliefs. If they are different, perhaps you should examine yourself closer, you may be in error. A true believer would be ready to correct, reprove, and instruct another brother in righteousness according to the scriptures. The Bible exhorts us to convert those that do err from the truth. Roman Catholics believe this portion of scripture as well don't they?

19 Brethren, if any of you do err from the truth, and one convert him; 20 Let him know, that he which converteth the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall hide a multitude of sins. James 5:19-20

I am concerned that you have disregarded the teachings of Jesus that I posted in the last post. Perhaps you were just in a bad way.

 

[ZeroTX]

Solo,

You are missing the point. He's saying that this particular forum was created for Catholics to provide answers to questions that Protestants may have about the faith directly from Catholics, rather than from hate books or pamphlets (Chick). What you wrote was in debate-style. That's not the intent.

Obviously, we disagree in matters of theology, thus we are here to help understand one another. You are also operating your debates and questions under the pretense that we should come up with Scripture to counter whatever your view is. We a) don't necessarily agree with your personal "Solo" interpretation of the Scripture and b) the Scriptures come from the Church and are used to teach within the Church on a daily basis... but are not the whole and complete teachings of the Church. We believe in the teachings passed down by Peter and the Apostles and the authority given the Church by Christ to provide teaching on faith and morals.
So, we are not really seeing things from the same perspective.

Please see my response to your baptism thread to see what I mean -- it's not just about what is written in Scripture. It doesn't cover everything. It's not an "owner's manual for Christians" in the Catholic belief. We can certainly start a whole thread on the canon of Scripture, though, if you like, and how it was developed and whether it was ever intended to be a complete A-Z guide for Christianity.

God bless,

Michael

 

[thessalonian]

Solo,

I've been doing that for over a year now and your heart is still hard toward what I say.

 

[francisdesales]

Perhaps you would be so kind as pointing out the differences in my understanding of beliefs and your Roman Catholic beliefs. If they are different, perhaps you should examine yourself closer, you may be in error.

There is nothing wrong with debate. However, it is pointless to debate with someone who already is closed to the idea that they could be wrong. You appear to think you are infallible and are not even considering that perhaps, you might be wrong. In true discussion, one comes to the table with an open mind. One who searches for the truth is not afraid to be open to it, wherever he finds it. Perhaps YOU should examine yourself closer...

A true believer would be ready to correct, reprove, and instruct another brother in righteousness according to the scriptures. The Bible exhorts us to convert those that do err from the truth. Roman Catholics believe this portion of scripture as well don't they?

That is why we are trying to win you from error...

Regards

 

[Solo]

Solo,

I've been doing that for over a year now and your heart is still hard toward what I say.

As soon as you are born again we can be brothers in the Lord Jesus Christ. It is my contention that your heart has been hardened by false teachings. I am still waiting for you to answer my previous post.

Perhaps you would be so kind as pointing out the differences in my understanding of beliefs and your Roman Catholic beliefs. If they are different, perhaps you should examine yourself closer, you may be in error. A true believer would be ready to correct, reprove, and instruct another brother in righteousness according to the scriptures. The Bible exhorts us to convert those that do err from the truth. Roman Catholics believe this portion of scripture as well don't they?

19 Brethren, if any of you do err from the truth, and one convert him; 20 Let him know, that he which converteth the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall hide a multitude of sins. James 5:19-20

I am concerned that you have disregarded the teachings of Jesus that I posted in the last post. Perhaps you were just in a bad way.

 

[thessalonian]

It's been answered well already. But your hard heart will not hear.

 

[Solo]

It's been answered well already. But your hard heart will not hear.

Solo's post has been deleted.

Take it somewhere else.

Thess

By the way I did not delete that post for my own benefit. If it were up to me I would have left it. But it was outside the intent of this part of the board.