Bible Study Reading the Book of Exodus

[23Psalm]

Greetings,

So I just started reading the book of Exodus. Now I have read this book many times, but this is the first time that I am really focused on every word, every line, every scripture and seeing what it is that the Lord is saying. What I don't understand is that why did God allow Pharoah's heart to stay hard? I mean I understand this was the only way to show his people that he is God, but at the other expense of innocent Egyptians? Perhaps somebody can give me a breakdown of this "hardening heart" situtation. I mean, why did it take Pharoah so long to come to grips that God is real?

Have a blessed day.

 

[stovebolts]

Greetings,

So I just started reading the book of Exodus. Now I have read this book many times, but this is the first time that I am really focused on every word, every line, every scripture and seeing what it is that the Lord is saying. What I don't understand is that why did God allow Pharoah's heart to stay hard? I mean I understand this was the only way to show his people that he is God, but at the other expense of innocent Egyptians? Perhaps somebody can give me a breakdown of this "hardening heart" situtation. I mean, why did it take Pharoah so long to come to grips that God is real?

Have a blessed day.

You ask a very good question, and part of the answer can be found in the opening verse which states: These are the names of the sons of Israel. Names are significant, especially in Hebrew thought and Egypt is always viewed in terms of exile. More than likely, you will not understand the significance of 1:1 as it relates to exile / redemption, but tuck it away and perhaps well explore it at a later date a bit deeper.

As far as Pharaoh, what do you know about ancient Egypt or Egyptology? First off, if you were an ancient Egyptian, how would you look at Pharaoh? Who would you say he was? Who did he say he was? I want to see what you know, because what you know will create the view to which you interpret the scriptures. Currently, I see that you are viewing the event from 21st century eyes and the whole event is much, much bigger than "show his people that he is God". Actually, that kind of misses the mark...

 

[23Psalm]

You ask a very good question, and part of the answer can be found in the opening verse which states: These are the names of the sons of Israel. Names are significant, especially in Hebrew thought and Egypt is always viewed in terms of exile. More than likely, you will not understand the significance of 1:1 as it relates to exile / redemption, but tuck it away and perhaps well explore it at a later date a bit deeper.

As far as Pharaoh, what do you know about ancient Egypt or Egyptology? First off, if you were an ancient Egyptian, how would you look at Pharaoh? Who would you say he was? Who did he say he was? I want to see what you know, because what you know will create the view to which you interpret the scriptures. Currently, I see that you are viewing the event from 21st century eyes and the whole event is much, much bigger than "show his people that he is God". Actually, that kind of misses the mark...

Consider me a babe in Christ. My knowledge and background expertise especially when it comes to the Old Testament is very limited. So to answer your second question, I have ZERO knowledge of ancient Egypt or Egyptology. I am assuming Pharaoh was the king, the ruler of Egypt and I can only imagine that Egyptians feared him. I am also assuming that Pharaoh was a title of the ruler rather than a name for one individual. As I travel down my path to understand Christ more and the Bible, I stopped off at Exodus. You have in fact, opened my eyes and mind more to dig a little deeper as I was looking at this book at face value. I guess understanding the history of the Egyptians would be beneficial, but my main concern is why did God allow Pharoah to be so stubborn?

 

[farouk]

23Psalm:

There are many valid, partial answers to your question, one of them being that God's ways are higher than our ways, and His thoughts higher than ours (Isaiah 55). The fact is that the Israelites didn't really belong in Egypt at all. Paul to the Corinthian Christians takes up an Old Testament theme when he calls on them to be separate (2 Corinthians 6.17).

It was in God' definite purposes that they should be delivered from Egypt and not merely by courtesy of Pharaoh. There will always be conflict with the world, but for the Christian, the believer may be of good cheer because the Lord Jesus has overcome the world.

 

[23Psalm]

23Psalm:

There are many valid, partial answers to your question, one of them being that God's ways are higher than our ways, and His thoughts higher than ours (Isaiah 55). The fact is that the Israelites didn't really belong in Egypt at all. Paul to the Corinthian Christians takes up an Old Testament theme when he calls on them to be separate (2 Corinthians 6.17).

It was in God' definite purposes that they should be delivered from Egypt and not merely by courtesy of Pharaoh. There will always be conflict with the world, but for the Christian, the believer may be of good cheer because the Lord Jesus has overcome the world.

Well stated! God bless.

 

[stovebolts]

Hi, and no worries about being new to the old testament.

Here is a nice pocket guide that may help to introduce you to the culture.
http://www.padfield.com/acrobat/history/gods_of_egypt.pdf

Many historians, although disputed place the Exodus around the time shortly after the Hyskos. It really was a troublesome time for Egypt monarchy and I won't bore you with it. But it was this period that greatly brought Egypt's pantheon under monarchy via the God Amon-Re.

http://www.touregypt.net/featurestories/amun-re.htm

In the middle of the 16th Dynasty, with the expulsion of the Hyksos rulers of Egypt, Amun's growth was accelerated due to the vindication of both Egyptian power and Amun-Re as a protector of both the Egyptian state and the Monarchy.

Furthermore:

Amun-Re was associated with the Egyptian monarchy, and theoretically, rather than threatening the pharaoh's power, the throne was supported by Amun-Re. The ancient theology made Amun-Re the physical father of the king. Hence, the Pharaoh and Amun-Re enjoyed a symbiotic relationship, with the king deriving power from Amun-Re. In return, the king supported the temples and the worship of Amun. In theory, Amun-Re could even take the form of the king in order to impregnate the chief royal wife with the successor to the throne (first documented during the reign of Hatshepsut during the New Kingdom). Furthermore, according to official state theology during the New Kingdom, Egypt was actually ruled by Amun-Re through the pharaohs, with the god revealing his will through oracles.

I have a book called Ancient Near Eastern Texts by Pritchard that has many of the ancient Egyptian writings, and I can attest that Pharoah believed himself as a divine god over the pantheon, even as much as being Amun-Re incarnate.

The battle with the Hyskos explains the biblical texts that states: Exodus 1:8 Now there arose a new king over Egypt, who knew not Joseph. The issue with the Hyskos also explains Pharaoh's fear of the Hebrews in the following verses that shows he was fearful of the Hebrews becoming stronger and revolting.. much like the Hyskos.

I don't want to trail off that too much, but we see clearly who Pharaoh believed himself to be, and how others viewed him. As head of the pantheon, we now see a little clearer how each plague was targeted at a different Egyptian God. Amon-Re was considered giver of life and death and held sway over the afterlife as well. With this in mind, we can now see why the Biblical texts says, "and against all the gods of Egypt I will execute judgment: I am the LORD." (Exodus 12:12b)

Clearly, the texts states that God is executing judgment upon all the god's of Egypt, and Pharaoh believes himself to be a god. Simply put, it's judgment time.

But what did Pharaoh do? Why was his heart hardened? Read and you will find that his heart was already hard. Read, and you will find his offence.

Exodus 1:14-16 and they made their lives bitter with hard service, in mortar and in brick, and in all manner of service in the field, all their service, wherein they made them serve with rigor. And the king of Egypt spake to the Hebrew midwives, of whom the name of the one was Shiphrah, and the name of the other Puah: and he said, When ye do the office of a midwife to the Hebrew women, and see them upon the birth-stool; if it be a son, then ye shall kill him; but if it be a daughter, then she shall live.

So we see here that the Pharaoh was killing innocent babies... Why? Because he was fearful of loosing his empire. This is how empires work, and Egypt was the first Empire. When Rome was the Empire in the days of Jesus, we see Herod also killing babies for the same purpose. He was afraid of loosing his little empire.

Let's stop here and let you digest this much first. Ask some questions and well move forward.

 

[23Psalm]

Ok, you got me totally hooked now. Thanks. You made it vividly clear now. Let me digest this a bit, study some more and I will get back to you. Wow!

 

[jasoncran]

:p corrupting the gentile on shemot i see. i was going to direct him to you. but nachimedes would be a bit over his head at present.

amon-re that is a name i havent heard of in years. stargate did a good idea of what they eygptians gods were like with that movie and shows. nothing i would want to serve.

 

[stovebolts]

:p corrupting the gentile on shemot i see. i was going to direct him to you. but nachimedes would be a bit over his head at present.

amon-re that is a name i havent heard of in years. stargate did a good idea of what they eygptians gods were like with that movie and shows. nothing i would want to serve.

You did not just mention stargate in a bible study! To the chair for you! Gad, next thing you know where gonna have the crazies in here talking about aliens building the pyramids! You should be ashamed of yourself.... wow... ramban and stargate mentioned in the same paragraph... and by a jew no less! Ha! Your too much jason lol!

 

[Chris.]

I have the same problem with the book of Joshua.

To be honest i see the lord abhors the sacrifice of children some cultures made to their Gods.

Yet moses commands Joshua to kill children in Israel the promised land.
I dont understand why a merciful God does this!

The book of Joshua does concern me as a Christian. I will work through this and find out why millions of people before me understand it.
My lord has not failed me yet and will not. i know despite what i do not understand my God is a god of love. i need to understand this though!

 

[stovebolts]

Chris,
That you say you have the same problem with Joshua tells me that you don't understand what has been written so far about Exodus and that you have other misunderstoods in regard to Exodus.

I'm not about to tackle both Exodus and Joshua at the same time. But do you know what God's those of Jericho served and do you know their practices? In the book of Samuel, Saul is told to go into a city and not leave one survivor, not even the livestock. Yet he doesn't obey. This is why the book of Esther was written.

If you go into the ancient stories with modern 21 century eyes, you'll come to the wrong conclusion every time because you simply won't understand the issues that were real for that day. War is morbid, and it's supposed to be for a reason. It should give us pause.

As far as Moses commanding Joshua to kill Hebrew children, you are referring to the incident of the golden calf, and I don't believe Joshua is mentioned. I'll have to double check, but I didn't think Joshua was a Levite.

 

[Chris.]

Chris,
That you say you have the same problem with Joshua tells me that you don't understand what has been written so far about Exodus and that you have other misunderstoods in regard to Exodus.

I'm not about to tackle both Exodus and Joshua at the same time. But do you know what God's those of Jericho served and do you know their practices? In the book of Samuel, Saul is told to go into a city and not leave one survivor, not even the livestock. Yet he doesn't obey. This is why the book of Esther was written.

If you go into the ancient stories with modern 21 century eyes, you'll come to the wrong conclusion every time because you simply won't understand the issues that were real for that day. War is morbid, and it's supposed to be for a reason. It should give us pause.

As far as Moses commanding Joshua to kill Hebrew children, you are referring to the incident of the golden calf, and I don't believe Joshua is mentioned. I'll have to double check, but I didn't think Joshua was a Levite.

dont know everything but I am a willing student.

 

[stovebolts]

Chris,
I believe this is the text you are talking about.

Exodus 32:27-28 And he said unto them, Thus saith Jehovah, the God of Israel, Put ye every man his sword upon his thigh, and go to and fro from gate to gate throughout the camp, and slay every man his brother, and every man his companion, and every man his neighbor. And the sons of Levi did according to the word of Moses: and there fell of the people that day about three thousand men.

First off, no children are mentioned, only adults. These are the adults that worshiped, and caused others to worship the golden calf. If we go back before Moses went on the mountain, all the Hebrews heard God's voice and trembled (Exodus 20:18-19) as God told them the conditions of the covenant. With one voice all the Hebrews agreed. This starts in Exodus 20 with the giving of the 10 commandments.

Exodus 24:3 And Moses came and told the people all the words of the LORD, and all the judgments: and all the people answered with one voice, and said, All the words which the LORD hath said will we do.

Those who died broke covenant willfully and knowingly. They understood the consequences.

 

[stovebolts]

Found Joshua

Numbers 13:8 Of the tribe of Ephraim, Hoshea the son of Nun.

Numbers 13:16 These are the names of the men that Moses sent to spy out the land. And Moses called Hoshea the son of Nun Joshua.

If we look at the incident you were refering to, we see that it was the Levites: And the sons of Levi did according to the word of Moses:

Is this the incident you were thinking of or was there another?

 

[emptytomb]

" I mean I understand this was the only way to show his people that he is God, but at the other expense of innocent Egyptians?"

I don't know if anyone responded to this question yet. Sorry if someone did and I missed reading it in this thread.

The fact was that there were no "Innocent" Egyptians. God is also showing his sovereignty and his power over Pharoah, ultimately drowing him in the Red Sea. (Psalm 136:15) In regarding innocence I would reference Romans 1:18-20. Pharoah and his people were subjected to 10 plagues of God's wrath, then the judgement in the sea.

 

[jasoncran]

You did not just mention stargate in a bible study! To the chair for you! Gad, next thing you know where gonna have the crazies in here talking about aliens building the pyramids! You should be ashamed of yourself.... wow... ramban and stargate mentioned in the same paragraph... and by a jew no less! Ha! Your too much jason lol!

why did i mention it because they take amon-re(ra) and have him be nearly what the egyptians say and live like that and treat humans like that. his mother also in the show called hathor and is and also the mother of horus.

that is why i said that it doesnt mean they arent off but they borrow alot and they did clue me in to what the egyptians thought.

 

[reba]

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[nmwings]

What I don't understand is that why did God allow Pharoah's heart to stay hard?

A big reason why people have difficulty understanding how the Lord works is because we always want to have God do things according to our rules and our definition of God. But from the very beginning the Lord has said that He will do things HIS way and not our way. But we deny that truth and tell ourselves another story and that 's what we believe! We can counter this by simply hearing the Word of God and stop listening to our own interpretations and understanding.

During the first six Judgments we are told Pharaoh hardened his own heart. It is after the 6th plague that God stepped in to harden his heart. When God hardens Pharaoh’s heart, it doesn’t mean God made Pharaoh more embittered, more obstinate or angrier towards the Lord: Pharaoh had free choice to submit to God and recognize He was greater than Pharaoh, but he did not. Pharaoh was already deserving of God’s justice. The Lord had to toughen him up so that he could withstand the next judgment so that God could manifest Himself even more to Egypt, and to us today.

The primary objective of this 1st Exodus, was not for Israel to be saved. Had Israel’s salvation been the #1 objective, God would have simply “beamed†them away from Pharoah. God’s primary objective (both then and in the near future) is for the whole world to know Him. The 10 judgments on Egypt is God’s way of making Himself known. A bunch of other gods are blocking Egypt and Israel from really knowing the Lord. So to get their attention and to get them to recognize who He is, He has to “whack†those other gods and show the people, “That’s not god… I’M God!†That is why it is so important in our faith that we have nothing to do with other gods: they block us from knowing the true God.

On a side note, Paul warns us that the 1st Exodus was written for our admonition and instruction, upon whom the end of the ages fall. That’s us! Jer tells us not once but TWICE that days are coming in which when we say “Exodusâ€we will not be referring to Egypt, but when the Lord takes ALL of Israel from ALL the nations from the 4 corners of the earth. Although the events of the 1st Exodus match what is described for the Great Tribulation, it pales in comparison to what is coming! But again, the primary objective of the Great Tribulation is not for Israel to be saved, but for the whole world to realize the gods they are worshipping now is NOT God. Moses, the Prophets, the Messiah and the apostles ALL teach this.


BTW: "Egypt" in Hebrew literally means âœTrials" or "Tribulations.â€