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Relics and sacramentals

T

ttg

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If the cloak of Jesus were available today for you to touch (Matt 9:20-22), would you do it?

If you could see and feel the bones of Elisha (2 Kings 13:20-21) would you dare touch them?

If the shadow of a holy man would fall across your body (Acts 5:14-16) would you have the faith to believe it could heal you?

Is the Catholic Church the only one that believes that physical things can be used to bring about cures? Just curious about something that is clearly biblical, but seems to be rejected by other faiths. And are these rejected simply because they are too "Catholic"?
 
You forgot Paul's hanky as well. Wonder if anyone would touch it and be healed today? Can anyone here explain the mechanism by which people were healed by Peter's shadow and Paul's hanky?
 
I also forgot about the spit and dirt that was used to cure the blind man.

Thess, you wondered "if anyone would touch (the hanky) and be healed today?" I would say certainly not everyone who would touch a relic would be healed.

Those that were were healed by Jesus and His Apostles had great faith. Without faith, a relic would just be piece of bone, or scrap of materiel.
 
ttg said:
I also forgot about the spit and dirt that was used to cure the blind man.

Thess, you wondered "if anyone would touch (the hanky) and be healed today?" I would say certainly not everyone who would touch a relic would be healed.

Those that were were healed by Jesus and His Apostles had great faith. Without faith, a relic would just be piece of bone, or scrap of materiel.
Click to expand...

We were told that it is ONE'S faith that can move a mountain. Now, WHO'S faith heeled. Not, not who had faith, but WHO'S FAITH HEALED?

I know, you're NOT getting it, right? Let's try it this way. Lazarus DIED, right? Do you think that it was the faith of Lazarus that 'brought him BACK to life? Now you see, huh. Lazarus' faith was NON existent. It was the faith of CHRIST that 'raised' him from the dead.

Or how about the healing of the 'earless soldier'? Was it the 'soldiers faith' that healed his ear? Of course not, it was Christs'.

NOW do you get it?

MEC
 
Imagican,

Tell us something we don't know. We know Christ heals. We know that faith is required for healing. Sometimes it is the faith of the one who is healed "your faith has made you well". Sometimes it is the faith of the healer. But always it is faith in Christ. Now stop with the condescension toward Catholics. We're not nearly as ignorant as you always assume. This is prejudice.

Perhaps you can explain the place of the relics of scripture? Don't assume ttg is asking these questions out of ignorance as you are.
 
Imagician,

You have a very good point when you ask how much faith a dead man can have. You even make a good argument against sola fide. But Lazarus had great faith in life. He was a close friend of Jesus and looked forward to his resurrection. He was brought back to life by the love of Jesus and the Grace of God. But if he didn't have faith in life, would he have life after death? I don't think so.

Jesus brought Lazarus back to life because he loved him. But he told the Apostles that He was glad that He was not there to prevent Lazarus' death. Why? Because it was time to show the Apostles His power over death. Lazarus was to be used as an example. Could the healing power of the bones of a martyr also be an example that is available to us today?

The soldier's ear wasn't healed because of the faith of the soldier (that we know of. Maybe it was.) But neither of your points touch on relics or sacramentals.

Maybe you could address the original post that asked if the Biblical healing power of certain objects is avoided by the non-Catholics because it is seen as "too Catholic"?
 
Thess,

My comment was not 'simply RESERVED' for Catholics. I would offer it to ANYONE that was seeking understanding. But, if this is a 'Catholics only' thread, my mistake and I apologize for interference. But if it were located in the Catholic category of the forums, I promise you, I wouldn't even know that it existed. In other words, you could be assured that I woujld NOT mistakenly interfere. My apologies.

MEC
 
My comments were not in the context of moderator. When they are I will let you know. You addressed ttg's post and said "I know, you're NOT getting it, right? " I think ttg get's it quite nicely.
 
JM said:
Where can I send in my $19.99 for a prayer hanky?
Click to expand...

That's one way to ignore passages of scripture. Make light of them if you can't fit them in to your theology. God has them in there for a reason for us today.
 
ttg said:
If the cloak of Jesus were available today for you to touch (Matt 9:20-22), would you do it?
Click to expand...

If a Roman Catholic walked by me, I wouldn't touch the hem of his garment. The symbolism in this passage should be clear. Mal 4:2 "But unto you that fear my name shall the Sun of righteousness arise with healing in his wings; and ye shall go forth, and grow up as calves of the stall." Why the hem? The prayer shawl/tzitzit had tassals on the corners, so the lady was reaching for the tassals which are a reminder of God's commandments [Deut. 22:12, Num. 15:37-41].

[G, are you impressed yet? I studied this topic over 5 years ago.]

The word translated as "border" in Num. 15:38 is kanaph and is also translated as wings. The tzitzit is made up of knotts and threads that add up to 613 for the Torah...the lady was acknowledging Christ as the one with healing in His wings and NOT any magic power the tzitzit had.

Do Catholics wear tzitzits?

If you could see and feel the bones of Elisha (2 Kings 13:20-21) would you dare touch them?
Click to expand...

Where else do we see bones healing people, or do you consider one event enough to establish a pattern?

If the shadow of a holy man would fall across your body (Acts 5:14-16) would you have the faith to believe it could heal you?
Click to expand...

Ahhhhh, but it doesn't say the shadow healed anyone...now does it! Tradition, tisk, tisk.

Is the Catholic Church the only one that believes that physical things can be used to bring about cures? Just curious about something that is clearly biblical, but seems to be rejected by other faiths. And are these rejected simply because they are too "Catholic"?
Click to expand...

It's a matter of what is clear and what your tradition tells you is clear.

jm
 
JM said:
ttg said:
If the cloak of Jesus were available today for you to touch (Matt 9:20-22), would you do it?
Click to expand...

If a Roman Catholic walked by me, I wouldn't touch the hem of his garment. The symbolism in this passage should be clear. Mal 4:2 "But unto you that fear my name shall the Sun of righteousness arise with healing in his wings; and ye shall go forth, and grow up as calves of the stall." Why the hem? The prayer shawl/tzitzit had tassals on the corners, so the lady was reaching for the tassals which are a reminder of God's commandments [Deut. 22:12, Num. 15:37-41].

[G, are you impressed yet? I studied this topic over 5 years ago.]

Stunned..... :-D, glad....laughing.......thought I was the only one (on this forum) to have known that... :-D Also...the stall fed cattle is a ref to the Messianic Millennial Kingdom...OUTSTANDING......JM...I find it fascinating that a woman (no disrespect to women) of the time knew scriptures that well...I wonder how many now know scripture like that?

The word translated as "border" in Num. 15:38 is kanaph and is also translated as wings. The tzitzit is made up of knotts and threads that add up to 613 for the Torah...the lady was acknowledging Christ as the one with healing in His wings and NOT any magic power the tzitzit had.

OUTSTANDING......

Do Catholics wear tzitzits?

If you could see and feel the bones of Elisha (2 Kings 13:20-21) would you dare touch them?
Click to expand...

Where else do we see bones healing people, or do you consider one event enough to establish a pattern?

[quote:46f38]If the shadow of a holy man would fall across your body (Acts 5:14-16) would you have the faith to believe it could heal you?
Click to expand...

Ahhhhh, but it doesn't say the shadow healed anyone...now does it! Tradition, tisk, tisk.

Is the Catholic Church the only one that believes that physical things can be used to bring about cures? Just curious about something that is clearly biblical, but seems to be rejected by other faiths. And are these rejected simply because they are too "Catholic"?
Click to expand...

It's a matter of what is clear and what your tradition tells you is clear.

jm[/quote:46f38]

OUTSTANDING.....thanks for making my evening... :-D
 
Hey, as long as you people don't start peddling Peter Popov's Miracle Spring Water...

thought I was the only one (on this forum) to have known that
Click to expand...
:o

hitchair.gif


Somewhere, I have a list of all the outer garments and outer wear they wore and what they stood for.
 
vic said:
Hey, as long as you people don't start peddling Peter Popov's Miracle Spring Water...

thought I was the only one (on this forum) to have known that
Click to expand...
:o

hitchair.gif


Somewhere, I have a list of all the outer garments and outer wear they wore and what they stood for.
Click to expand...

Sorry Vic.....3 of us......luv ya..... :oops:
 
Lewis W said:
George you really enjoyed yourself tonight didn't you. :-D :D
Click to expand...


Sure did...and I needed that after the day I had.... :) They would have had to come get me off the moon if you would have concurred with JM and Vic....I would have jumped that high.... :-D :-D :-D
 
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