Religion

[RichardBurger]

Religion = what mankind practices in order to please the god they think exists. It is a practice of things (works and rituals) they think will please their God and make them acceptable.

What I find so amazing in the Christian religion is that men and women will search out scriptures in one part of the Bible to try and defeat scriptures in another part of the Bible. You see it on all of the forums. Instead of trying to discuss the Scriptures in the original post they interject other Scriptures found in other places that they say make the other Scripture meaningless. --- Religion is what separates men and women today. They don't seem to understand that Jesus (God) has made an end run around religion and made it null and void.

Not many will try to study, in depth, what Paul said in 1 Cor 1:23-31

1 Cor 1:23-31
23 but we preach Christ crucified, to the Jews a stumbling block and to the Greeks foolishness,

*Because it is what God has done for mankind and not what men and women can do in a religion for themselves.

24 but to those who are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God.
25 Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men, and the weakness of God is stronger than men.

*By doing for mankind what they could not do for themselves God, in His wisdom, has setup a plan of salvation that is not dependant on what men and women do. Since, in religion, men and women feel that THEY must do something, they find God's plan foolish. To religion a plan of salvation in which men and women cannot work for salvation is foolish. In religion every one feels that they must work for what they get. Example, when a person receives a gift they feel that they must give one in return. They do not understand what a free gift is or how to accept it. However, a free gift requires nothing in return except a feeling of gratitude and a thank you.

26 For you see your calling, brethren, that not many wise according to the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called.
27 But God has chosen the foolish things of the world to put to shame the wise, and God has chosen the weak things of the world to put to shame the things which are mighty;
28 and the base things of the world and the things which are despised God has chosen, and the things which are not, to bring to nothing the things that are,

*I believe the above is saying the same things I am saying; the things which are not, the absents of religion, and the things that are, religions, have been brought to nothing.

29 that no flesh should glory in His presence.

*Men and women glory (take pride) in their religious works they do. They think they will please God and it is hard for them to deny themselves this control of their salvation and give ALL the control to God.

30 But of Him you are in Christ Jesus, who became for us wisdom from God-- and righteousness and sanctification and redemption--
31 that, as it is written, "He who glories, let him glory in the Lord."
(NKJ)

The work of Jesus Christ on the cross has become all that is necessary for a person's salvation. It is righteousness, sanctification, and redemption for all those that will place ALL their faith, trust, confidence, and hope in what He (God) did on the cross. As you can see God had a plan that removed the work of salvation from mankind and accomplished the work Himself. Yet, men and women WILL NOT accept it, they still feel that THEY must do something too. They cannot accept a plan of salvation that does not give them some control over it.

To many, the history of mankind's religions did not change much with the death and resurrection of Jesus (God). Religions continued to be a system of things (works) that men and women practice for their god.

People in religion today cannot accept the idea that with the death of Jesus, God instituted a hidden plan of salvation that does not depend on mankind's performance and gave it to Paul.

Eph 2:4-10
4 But God, who is rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us,
5 even when we were dead in trespasses, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved),
6 and raised us up together, and made us sit together in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus,
7 that in the ages to come He might show the exceeding riches of His grace in His kindness toward us in Christ Jesus.
8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God,
9 not of works, lest anyone should boast.
10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.
(NKJ)

Notice that in the above it is talking about what God has done for us, not what we do. In verse 10 it says we are His workmanship. He did all the work to make us His.

Eph 3:1-3
1 For this reason I, Paul, the prisoner of Christ Jesus for you Gentiles--
2 if indeed you have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which was given to me for you,
3 how that by revelation He made known to me the mystery (as I have briefly written already,
(NKJ)

In this dispensation of the grace of God all mankind is required to do is to accept what God has done for their salvation and to deny their control over it. They are required to place ALL their faith, trust, confidence, and hope in what Jesus (God) did on the cross. When they do this they show that they believe what God has done for them.

John 3:18
18 "He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
(NKJ)

Food for thought

 

[Free]

But you do agree that Christianity is a religion, don't you?

 

[stovebolts]

James 1:26-27 If any one doth think to be religious among you, not bridling his tongue, but deceiving his heart, of this one vain is the religion; religion pure and undefiled with the God and Father is this, to look after orphans and widows in their tribulation--unspotted to keep himself from the world.

 

[RichardBurger]

But you do agree that Christianity is a religion, don't you?

No I don't. True Christianity is what God has done for man. As a matter of fact that is the only thing that sets it apart from all the religions of the world.

 

[Free]

But you do agree that Christianity is a religion, don't you?

No I don't. True Christianity is what God has done for man. As a matter of fact that is the only thing that sets it apart from all the religions of the world.

I'm not sure where you get your definition of religion but every formal definition I have read would agree that Christianity is a religion.

True Christianity is what God has done for man. As a matter of fact that is the only thing that sets it apart from all the religions of the world.

And those very beliefs you hold that pertain to "what God has done for man" are precisely what makes Christianity a religion.

 

[RichardBurger]

But you do agree that Christianity is a religion, don't you?

No I don't. True Christianity is what God has done for man. As a matter of fact that is the only thing that sets it apart from all the religions of the world.

I'm not sure where you get your definition of religion but every formal definition I have read would agree that Christianity is a religion.

True Christianity is what God has done for man. As a matter of fact that is the only thing that sets it apart from all the religions of the world.

And those very beliefs you hold that pertain to "what God has done for man" are precisely what makes Christianity a religion.

Read a good dictionary. No where in the definitions does it say what God has done for mankind.

 

[Free]

Read a good dictionary. No where in the definitions does it say what God has done for mankind.

That is irrelevant. The definition of religion according to Merriam-Webster.com:

1 a : the state of a religious <a nun in her 20th year of religion> b (1) : the service and worship of God or the supernatural (2) : commitment or devotion to religious faith or observance
2 : a personal set or institutionalized system of religious attitudes, beliefs, and practices
3 archaic : scrupulous conformity : conscientiousness
4 : a cause, principle, or system of beliefs held to with ardor and faith

It's easy to see that Christianity fits 1, 2 and 4. Christianity is a religion. Just because Christianity has different beliefs from other religions, as they all do from each other, does not mean that Christianity is not a religion.

 

[samuel]

Religion is mans greatest sin.

 

[Joe67]

Religion is mans greatest sin.

sam,

A God given necessary good sin.


Rom 3:5-7
5 But if our unrighteousness commend the righteousness of God, what shall we say? Is God unrighteous who taketh vengeance? (I speak as a man)

6 God forbid: for then how shall God judge the world?

7 For if the truth of God hath more abounded through my lie unto his glory; why yet am I also judged as a sinner? KJV

Joe

 

[Free]

Religion is mans greatest sin.

And just how is it a sin, never mind "mans greatest sin"?

 

[RichardBurger]

Read a good dictionary. No where in the definitions does it say what God has done for mankind.

That is irrelevant. The definition of religion according to Merriam-Webster.com:

1 a : the state of a religious <a nun in her 20th year of religion> b (1) : the service and worship of God or the supernatural (2) : commitment or devotion to religious faith or observance
2 : a personal set or institutionalized system of religious attitudes, beliefs, and practices
3 archaic : scrupulous conformity : conscientiousness
4 : a cause, principle, or system of beliefs held to with ardor and faith

It's easy to see that Christianity fits 1, 2 and 4. Christianity is a religion. Just because Christianity has different beliefs from other religions, as they all do from each other, does not mean that Christianity is not a religion.

As I said in the OP, religion is all about what men do for the God of their imaganation and your definitions prove my point. The above is all about what man does. ---- No where do I see a definition that mentions what God has done for man.

Look, if you want to be defined as a religious person go to it. --- But I am not a religious person, I am a sinfull man who has been made a child of God, by God's work on the cross. ---- But you will insist that I am religious to prove your point.

 

[dadof10]

As I said in the OP, religion is all about what men do for the God of their imaganation and your definitions prove my point. The above is all about what man does. ---- No where do I see a definition that mentions what God has done for man.

Look, if you want to be defined as a religious person go to it. --- But I am not a religious person, I am a sinfull man who has been made a child of God, by God's work on the cross. ---- But you will insist that I am religious to prove your point.

"If any man among you seem to be religious, and bridleth not his tongue, but deceiveth his own heart, this man's religion [is] vain.
Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, [and] to keep himself unspotted from the world." (1 Js. 1:26-27)

According to James, there is such a thing as "pure religion". Whether you like the term or not, really doesn't matter. James liked the term, and wrote it down. Therefore it's Scriptural to refer to one's set of Christian beliefs as a "religion".

 

[Free]

As I said in the OP, religion is all about what men do for the God of their imaganation and your definitions prove my point. The above is all about what man does. ---- No where do I see a definition that mentions what God has done for man.

Again, that is irrelevant. The belief that Christianity is "what God has done for man" is a belief within the religion that is Christianity. That has nothing to do with whether or not Christianity is a religion.

My main point is to go against the common Evangelical saying "Christianity isn't a religion, it's a relationship." However, that is patently false as it is, by definition, a religion. But it is a religion in which one of the main tenets is that we can have a relationship with God.

 

[RichardBurger]

As I said in the OP, religion is all about what men do for the God of their imaganation and your definitions prove my point. The above is all about what man does. ---- No where do I see a definition that mentions what God has done for man.

Again, that is irrelevant. The belief that Christianity is "what God has done for man" is a belief within the religion that is Christianity. That has nothing to do with whether or not Christianity is a religion.

My main point is to go against the common Evangelical saying "Christianity isn't a religion, it's a relationship." However, that is patently false as it is, by definition, a religion. But it is a religion in which one of the main tenets is that we can have a relationship with God.

It seems that you really have a need for true Christianity to be a religion. I don't have that need.

 

[Free]

I don't have a need for it to be a religion, it just is. What I do have a need for is to make sure that when Christians discuss Christianity with others they at least sound like they're being intellectually honest and have thought things through. It does no one any good if, in sharing their faith, a Christian keeps denying that Christianity is religion based on their own definition of what constitutes a religion and what does not.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with Christianity being a religion.

 

[RichardBurger]

From the book “hard to believe†by John MacArthur.

Man-made and demon-designed systems of religion are based on the assumption that we don't really need a Savior, or aren't fully dependent on Him, because we have the capacity to develop our own righteousness. Just let God give us a little religious environment to aid our natural goodness, dispense a little power to us, or infuse a little strength into us. Give us a few rules, a few religious routines and rituals, and we'll crank up salvation on our own. The lie of human achievement comes under myriad different titles, but it's all the same system, because it's spawned out of the same source: Satan himself. He packages it in different boxes, but it's all the same product. On the other hand, the truth of divine accomplishment is Christianity. And it stands alone.

Tragically, most of humanity is religiously speeding down the wide highway of human achievement, convinced it's headed toward some fabulous heavenly destiny because of its own basic goodness, noble works, and religious deeds. By contrast, Jesus said the only true way to heaven is the narrow pathway of trusting Him alone as Lord and Savior.

The Jews taught that they could make it on their own. That's why it was so shocking when the apostle Paul said, "Therefore by the deeds of the law no flesh will be justified in His sight" (Rom. 3:20). He also said that the law came in order to stop our mouths from any claim to righteousness and to render the whole world guilty before God. The Law came to show us our sinfulness, but when self-righteous, ego-centered man saw that he was sinful by the Law, he didn't want to face his sinfulness. Fallen people set their sinfulness aside and are constantly inventing new systems that accommodate their shortcomings, then affirming that they are okay before their gods, based on their own personal criteria or religious beliefs and behaviors.

 

[AAA]

1. "Religion = what mankind practices in order to please the god they think exists. It is a practice of things (works and rituals) they think will please their God and make them acceptable."


2." all mankind is required to do is to accept what God has done for their salvation and to deny their control over it. They are required to place ALL their faith, trust, confidence, and hope in what Jesus (God) did on the cross. When they do this they show that they believe what God has done for them."

In #1, you've just re-defined religion as "works and rituals", and excluded beliefs from that definition. Everybody accepts that the word religion includes having certain beliefs. I can re-define the word "salad" to mean "porkchops", but I'm going to have a hard time ordering supper tomorrow night.

 

[RichardBurger]

1. "Religion = what mankind practices in order to please the god they think exists. It is a practice of things (works and rituals) they think will please their God and make them acceptable."


2." all mankind is required to do is to accept what God has done for their salvation and to deny their control over it. They are required to place ALL their faith, trust, confidence, and hope in what Jesus (God) did on the cross. When they do this they show that they believe what God has done for them."

In #1, you've just re-defined religion as "works and rituals", and excluded beliefs from that definition. Everybody accepts that the word religion includes having certain beliefs. I can re-define the word "salad" to mean "porkchops", but I'm going to have a hard time ordering supper tomorrow night.

People have all kinds of beliefs. However, belief in what Jesus Christ did on the cross is the only one that will save you. But men add their works of religion and that negates the work of God.
Men of religion have re-definded Chritianity. See the "Synagogues and Christian Churches" thread on this forum.

 

[AAA]

belief in what Jesus Christ did on the cross is the only one that will save you.

The Christian religion (Christianity) is defined by that particular belief. It is a religion, even though you don't like that word's negative connotations.

De-emphasizing the works of man in the name of religion is your personal prerogative, but the truth is that it means little for a Christian to say that she "believes in what Jesus Christ did on the Cross" while not trying to live a Christian life ("works"). To do so would be pure hypocrisy.

 

[RichardBurger]

belief in what Jesus Christ did on the cross is the only one that will save you.

The Christian religion (Christianity) is defined by that particular belief. It is a religion, even though you don't like that word's negative connotations.

De-emphasizing the works of man in the name of religion is your personal prerogative, but the truth is that it means little for a Christian to say that she "believes in what Jesus Christ did on the Cross" while not trying to live a Christian life ("works"). To do so would be pure hypocrisy.

There is nothing in the OP that addresses works and there is nothing in my replies that indicate that a child of God will not do SOME good works. However, to make true Chruistianity ALL about good works is true deception. Those that preach the "good works" gospel are the true hypocrites. They don't do anymore good works than others but they want it to seem that they do, and are, therefore, closer to God.

You seem to want to ignore the fact that it was the religious majority that had Jesus crucified and if He came back today, as He did then, it would be the religious marjority that would reject Him. Some seem to take solice in the fact that they are in the mainstream of religious thought. In reality they should be extremely worried.