Christian Forums

This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!

Religious Extremism

I am not Catholic, nor did I come up with this phrase. However, it bears repeating whenever someone equates Muslim "extremists" with the Westboro Baptist whackos & other "Christian" terrorists:

[BOLD]If one takes the teachings of Muhammed to the extreme you get Osama Bin Laden. If one takes the teachings of Jesus Christ to the extreme you get Mother Theresa[/BOLD]


---
- New International Version unless noted otherwise
 
[BOLD]If one takes the teachings of Muhammed to the extreme you get Osama Bin Laden. If one takes the teachings of Jesus Christ to the extreme you get Mother Theresa[/BOLD]
I would like personally to heard the opinions on this remark by other forum members.

I understandably have a differing opinion.
 
I would like personally to heard the opinions on this remark by other forum members.

I understandably have a differing opinion.

What teaching of Christ encourages believers to blow themselves in order to kill non-believers while yelling "God is greater!", as opposed to giving up all material possessions & living amongst some of the poorest, most diseased people on the planet?


---
- New International Version unless noted otherwise
 
I am not Catholic, nor did I come up with this phrase. However, it bears repeating whenever someone equates Muslim "extremists" with the Westboro Baptist whackos & other "Christian" terrorists:

[BOLD]If one takes the teachings of Muhammed to the extreme you get Osama Bin Laden. If one takes the teachings of Jesus Christ to the extreme you get Mother Theresa[/BOLD]


---
- New International Version unless noted otherwise

Westboro Baptist are not Christian.

Calling ones self Christian does not it so.
Baptist dose not always equate to Christian
Catholic does not always equate to Christian
Pentecostal does not always equate to Christian

Mother Theresa my guess she is with the Lord.
 
What teaching of Christ encourages believers to blow themselves in order to kill non-believers while yelling "God is greater!", as opposed to giving up all material possessions & living amongst some of the poorest, most diseased people on the planet?

It instructs you to enslave the poor.
Ephesians 6:5
Timothy 6:1-2
Luke 12:47-48

That's a sample. I don't see it as productive to compaire the books both are so barbarically violent from a time we don't need to revisit each with differing justifications that I don't personally buy.

I sit and here and observe you obsessively. What you say is pepole who engage in violence "arn't christians" guess what... I've been to muslim forums and they say the exact same thing about al-queda, I pointed out the deja-vu similarities between that forum and this before didn't go so well for me.

Simple matter is you interpret everything said in the bible the idea of it begin read more literally is a falsehood. None of you are any closer to the authors original intent, the author begin long dead cannot be consulted on these differences.

Exsample, There are no verses on abortion such a proceedure didn't exsist on the time yet you will there and say to me point blank that abortion is a sin to your gods designs.
You will take a verse and read it in an entirely peculiar way. When there are more verses on jesus personal dislike fig fruit.

It's just a matter of someone then reading Matthew 10:34 as a command to use violence to spread the world of the gospel and you get this.

BBC News | World | Policeman dies in US abortion clinic bomb
I shot US abortion doctor to protect children, Scott Roeder tells court | World news | The Guardian

(i'm sure that's not an interpretation you agree with) but it really is that simple.

They are engaged in the exact same modality of thought. as al-queda, and act in the exact same way.
THEY are the christians running into buildings with bombs strapped to their chests screaming "God is greater" blowing themselves up.

You will say they arn't christians, But muslims on there respective internet bubbles will equally tell me al-queda arn't muslims.
 
Wow, Pebbles. Unless I've misread something or you're reading a different Bible than I am you have really taken those verses out of context. I don't see how those verses "instruct" Christians to enslave the poor. I will have to read them again when I have a little more time.
 
It instructs you to enslave the poor.
Ephesians 6:5
Timothy 6:1-2
Luke 12:47-48
Eph 6:5 Bondservants, be obedient to those who are your masters according to the flesh, with fear and trembling, in sincerity of heart, as to Christ;
Eph 6:6 not with eyeservice, as men-pleasers, but as bondservants of Christ, doing the will of God from the heart,
Eph 6:7 with goodwill doing service, as to the Lord, and not to men,
Eph 6:8 knowing that whatever good anyone does, he will receive the same from the Lord, whether he is a slave or free.
Eph 6:9 And you, masters, do the same things to them, giving up threatening, knowing that your own Master also is in heaven, and there is no partiality with Him. (NKJV)

1Ti 6:1 Let as many bondservants as are under the yoke count their own masters worthy of all honor, so that the name of God and His doctrine may not be blasphemed.
1Ti 6:2 And those who have believing masters, let them not despise them because they are brethren, but rather serve them because those who are benefited are believers and beloved. Teach and exhort these things. (NKJV)

Clearly both of the above passages are not commands to enslave the poor. In fact, they are commands for both Christian slaves and masters on how to treat one another. Surely this was something completely new in a society where slaves could outnumber free people. Slavery was a fact of life; the Christian message was about treating slaves in a much better way, and eventually led to the abolition of slavery.

Luk 12:47 And that servant who knew his master's will, and did not prepare himself or do according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes.
Luk 12:48 But he who did not know, yet committed things deserving of stripes, shall be beaten with few. For everyone to whom much is given, from him much will be required; and to whom much has been committed, of him they will ask the more. (NKJV)

This is a parable in which Jesus is stating that those who knew the Father's will and do not prepare or act according to his will, "shall be beaten with many stripes." This has nothing to do with speaking for or against slavery.

That's a sample. I don't see it as productive to compaire the books both are so barbarically violent from a time we don't need to revisit each with differing justifications that I don't personally buy.
Well, it seems as though you don't actually understand what you are reading, so how can you judge any justifications as to their truth?

Exsample, There are no verses on abortion such a proceedure didn't exsist on the time yet you will there and say to me point blank that abortion is a sin to your gods designs.
You will take a verse and read it in an entirely peculiar way. When there are more verses on jesus personal dislike fig fruit.
This is false as well but I don't know if you are just being facetious. There is no verse that states Jesus didn't like figs. In fact, he likely did like them which is why he wanted one in the first place.

However, the real point here is that abortions did in fact exist back then, and in large numbers. There is also quite possibly a verse against abortion, although the word intended is translated incorrectly. I don't have the reference handy but if I remember, I'll post it.
 
If one takes the teachings of Muhammed to the extreme you get Osama Bin Laden. If one takes the teachings of Jesus Christ to the extreme you get Mother Theresa

The truth is that if one takes the teachings of Muhammad to the extreme you get Osama Bin Laden. If one takes the teachings of Jesus Christ to the extreme you get George Bush and the Iraq invasion.
 
The truth is that if one takes the teachings of Muhammad to the extreme you get Osama Bin Laden. If one takes the teachings of Jesus Christ to the extreme you get George Bush and the Iraq invasion.

Which specific teachings of Jesus did GWB take to the extreme, including invading another nation?
 
Which specific teachings of Jesus did GWB take to the extreme, including invading another nation?
Your initial quote from the pope implies that people who take their religion to the extreme are people who follow the religion devoutly. The implication being that Bin Laden is just a devout Muslim, as opposed to a deviant and Teresa is an "extreme" (devout) Christian.

It's an amusing quote. Except how would the pope categorize people like Timothy McVeigh?

I don't need to show you verses from the Bible that promote violence (although there is no doubt in my mind that I could find some); I don't desire to paint the Bible as a book that encourages violence. The point of my earlier post is that extremist are people who use their books in order to do things that don't necessarily reflect the purpose of the book.

And so George Bush is a good example.

According to news reports (i could give you links but why? everybody can look it up themselves) George Bush himself claimed that invading Iraq was "a mission from God", that "Gog and Magog are at work in the Middle East", and that he, "wants to use this conflict to erase his people's enemies before a New Age begins".
 
Last edited by a moderator:
If I want to show that the Bible speaks of violence is acceptable and Jesus endorsing it, all I have to do it take the books of Leviticus, Numbers, and Joshua read them in their entirety, then point out how Jesus stated that the law was not changed and that it shall be enforced. Most of the Old Testament past Exodus is about wars and what Mose's people and the kings that fallowed did during war time. There are psalms about killing the children of the enemy and being happy about it. There are rules on how to permanently enslave people that are nor of your tribe or nation. There are entire chapters in Joshua about how The Jews went from city to city and slayed each king and their people. Why? Because they didn't worship Yahweh, and they wanted the land for their God. The messiah ( Jesus) was supposed to be a gift from God, sent to avenge his people and save them from who? The non believers. In revelations It is said that Jesus will come back and destroy the non believers because they didn't accept him. This view lasted for centuries, convert or die. The crusades the recapture Israel. The schisms that happened with the splitting of the Angelican, Lutheran, and Catholic Churches. The wars fought in Scandinavia, the colonization of Africa and the Americas. Manifest Destiny, the trail of tears, slave trade in Europe and the Americas, the colonization of Cuba and Hati. Dude that was of Christian extremism. What ended up happening is Christianity was dragged into reform in Europe and the Americas when the Enlightenment happened. Massive strides in philosophy, Chemistry, Biology, Psychology, engineering, art. etc. forced the Christian religion to change. The Middle east hasn't had the chance yet to get out of their Dark Age. Now many of the countries are starting to revolt against old rule. Egypt, Yemen, Libya, Iran, etc. have fought or are fighting their governments. Islam is going to change like Christianity did. Its just going to take time.
 
If I want to show that the Bible speaks of violence is acceptable and Jesus endorsing it, all I have to do it take the books of Leviticus, Numbers, and Joshua read them in their entirety, then point out how Jesus stated that the law was not changed and that it shall be enforced. Most of the Old Testament past Exodus is about wars and what Mose's people and the kings that fallowed did during war time. There are psalms about killing the children of the enemy and being happy about it. There are rules on how to permanently enslave people that are nor of your tribe or nation. There are entire chapters in Joshua about how The Jews went from city to city and slayed each king and their people. Why? Because they didn't worship Yahweh, and they wanted the land for their God. The messiah ( Jesus) was supposed to be a gift from God, sent to avenge his people and save them from who? The non believers. In revelations It is said that Jesus will come back and destroy the non believers because they didn't accept him. This view lasted for centuries, convert or die. The crusades the recapture Israel. The schisms that happened with the splitting of the Angelican, Lutheran, and Catholic Churches. The wars fought in Scandinavia, the colonization of Africa and the Americas. Manifest Destiny, the trail of tears, slave trade in Europe and the Americas, the colonization of Cuba and Hati. Dude that was of Christian extremism. What ended up happening is Christianity was dragged into reform in Europe and the Americas when the Enlightenment happened. Massive strides in philosophy, Chemistry, Biology, Psychology, engineering, art. etc. forced the Christian religion to change. The Middle east hasn't had the chance yet to get out of their Dark Age. Now many of the countries are starting to revolt against old rule. Egypt, Yemen, Libya, Iran, etc. have fought or are fighting their governments. Islam is going to change like Christianity did. Its just going to take time.

Hey, Lance, I don't know what happened to spark all this anger out of you, but don't resort to your old ways okay?

Much of your post is blatant twisting of Biblical accounts, and can be easily refuted.

Don't explode like you've done in the past, k?
 
I am not Catholic, nor did I come up with this phrase. However, it bears repeating whenever someone equates Muslim "extremists" with the Westboro Baptist whackos & other "Christian" terrorists:

[BOLD]If one takes the teachings of Muhammed to the extreme you get Osama Bin Laden. If one takes the teachings of Jesus Christ to the extreme you get Mother Theresa[/BOLD]


---
- New International Version unless noted otherwise

I think we should define what the term extreme means, because in the context of the poetic quote, extremism equates Muslims as terrorists and Christians as saintly. I don't think the quote is accurate myself, because if we want to say someone was extreme in Christianity, you would have to point to Jesus Himself. Jesus being the standard by which we discern good behavior and bad, we would have to categorize both Bin Laden's and Mother Theresa's behavior as contaminated with sin. Unless we know the motivation behind Bin Laden's or Mother Theresa's actions, we could only hope they were both saved. Do I think Bin Laden was saved? I have no evidence to suggest he was. What about Mother Theresa? I can't see her motivation for why she did the things she did, so, I don't know if she was either.

- Davies
 
Your initial quote from the pope implies that people who take their religion to the extreme are people who follow the religion devoutly. The implication being that Bin Laden is just a devout Muslim, as opposed to a deviant and Teresa is an "extreme" (devout) Christian.

It's an amusing quote. Except how would the pope categorize people like Timothy McVeigh?

I don't need to show you verses from the Bible that promote violence (although there is no doubt in my mind that I could find some); I don't desire to paint the Bible as a book that encourages violence. The point of my earlier post is that extremist are people who use their books in order to do things that don't necessarily reflect the purpose of the book.

And so George Bush is a good example.

According to news reports (i could give you links but why? everybody can look it up themselves) George Bush himself claimed that invading Iraq was "a mission from God", that "Gog and Magog are at work in the Middle East", and that he, "wants to use this conflict to erase his people's enemies before a New Age begins".

It's a simple question, please answer it.
 
I think we should define what the term extreme means, because in the context of the poetic quote, extremism equates Muslims as terrorists and Christians as saintly. I don't think the quote is accurate myself, because if we want to say someone was extreme in Christianity, you would have to point to Jesus Himself. Jesus being the standard by which we discern good behavior and bad, we would have to categorize both Bin Laden's and Mother Theresa's behavior as contaminated with sin. Unless we know the motivation behind Bin Laden's or Mother Theresa's actions, we could only hope they were both saved. Do I think Bin Laden was saved? I have no evidence to suggest he was. What about Mother Theresa? I can't see her motivation for why she did the things she did, so, I don't know if she was either.

- Davies

Their motivation were the teachings of Muhammad and Jesus, respectively. As such MT took Jesus teachings of charity, poverty, and sacrifice to the extreme by living with dirt poor, disease ridden outcasts. Bin Laden took Muhammad's teachings to the extreme by killing infidels.
 
It's a simple question, please answer it.

revelation 19:11: I saw heaven standing open and there before me was a white horse, whose rider is called Faithful and True. With justice he judges and wages war.

There are obviously more. But really they are not needed to support my point.
 
Their motivation were the teachings of Muhammad and Jesus, respectively. As such MT took Jesus teachings of charity, poverty, and sacrifice to the extreme by living with dirt poor, disease ridden outcasts. Bin Laden took Muhammad's teachings to the extreme by killing infidels.

Drummer4Christ,

Until I have a window into the soul of a person, I won't presume to know the motivation of anyone. With Bin Laden, we don't see any faith in Jesus Christ, the Jesus of the Bible. Mother Theresa on the other hand was a very righteous person, but if she did them to earn her salvation, then her work was in vain. I just don't know what her motivation was.

- Davies
 
revelation 19:11: I saw heaven standing open and there before me was a white horse, whose rider is called Faithful and True. With justice he judges and wages war.

There are obviously more. But really they are not needed to support my point.

Revelation 19 is not a teaching made by Jesus Christ. Please provide a specific teaching made by Jesus during His testimony on earth.
 
Drummer4Christ,

Until I have a window into the soul of a person, I won't presume to know the motivation of anyone. With Bin Laden, we don't see any faith in Jesus Christ, the Jesus of the Bible. Mother Theresa on the other hand was a very righteous person, but if she did them to earn her salvation, then her work was in vain. I just don't know what her motivation was.

- Davies

I totally agree. I'm merely making the distinction between the physical outcomes of Mother Theresa & OBL's zealotry. Being Catholic, it is not far fetched to assume that seeking salvation by works through charity, as opposed to charity through faith, motivated Mother Theresa. Misguided as that may ,Mother Theresa's works did not include flying planes into buildings.
 
Revelation 19 is not a teaching made by Jesus Christ. Please provide a specific teaching made by Jesus during His testimony on earth.

I agree.

Unfortunately you believe that the statement, "all scripture is inspired by God", applies to the entire Bible.

That is your belief.

And since you believe that Revelation is inspired by God.
And since you believe that Jesus is God.

Then according to your beliefs Revelation 19 is a teaching of Jesus.

And it is possible that this verse is what inspired Bush to have the innocent Iraqi people killed.
 
Back
Top