Religious Morality Experiment

[Quath]

I saw a book review for Richard Dawkin's book, The God Delusion. What was interesting was an experiment explained in the book. I will just quote the review:

[Dawkins tells the] story of an experiment where young Israeli children, between ages 8 and 14, were presented with the Old Testament story of Joshua's slaughter of Jericho and asked to evaluate the morality of his actions. A shockingly large majority of the children indicated that Joshua was doing the right thing, because wiping out religions other than Judaism and preventing the dire peril of Jews intermingling with non-Jews constituted sufficient rationale for genocide. And yet when the same story was presented to another group of Israeli children, except that this time it was set in ancient China and not presented in the context of Judaism, an equally large majority disapproved of the action.

I am curious as to what people think about this experiment. Is it a show of moral relativism? Do the kinds understand the "truth"?

 

[Poke]

That reminds of racial issues, if you change the races, people's attitudes toward identical situations change, change dramatically. If a black man were to drag a white man to death, no one outside of the local community hears about it. If a white man were to drag a black man to death, everything relating to the case for years to come would be national news.

As for Joshua at Jericho, according to the biblical account, it was undeniably an act of God. I don't think I'm in a position to judge God. If God dropped a wall in China for an enemy army, I would have to approve of it, too.

God frequently used foreign armies and immigration to judge wicked nations. If you're in a nation being overran by foreigners, you can bet your nation is facing judgment by God.

Jericho obviously deserved destruction, considering that the most righteous person in town was a lying harlot. In cities destroyed by Israel, the Bible describes them as overflowing with wickedness: "Keep all my decrees and laws and follow them, so that the land where I am bringing you to live may not vomit you out. You must not live according to the customs of the nations I am going to drive out before you. Because they did all these things, I abhorred them." "These things" include such things as homosexuality and human sacrifice.

 

[AHIMSA]

if you change the races, people's attitudes toward identical situations change, change dramatically

As for Joshua at Jericho, according to the biblical account, it was undeniably an act of God

I really wonder, if this situation was brought into modern times, and you happened to be of an ethnicity that was condemned by God as being wicked and sinful, if you would still consider an armed "soldier of God" impailing you with his sword an "undeniable act of God".

 

[jgredline]

http://www.albertmohler.com/commentary_ ... 2006-09-26

 

[peace4all]

I think that is one of the best articles I have read on this entire forum, written by someone in atleast a conservative tone.

It didn't do the 3 fundamental things other conservative writings always seem to do.
Blame them as just being fools/too dumb to understand god.
misrepresent fact as fiction, and state "since my theory is right, with no proof, no matter how much proof you have, yours is wrong"
or Bash Clinton


Why can't more of the things posted here not be ridiculous biased based garbage?

 

[lovely]

I agree with peace, Molher's article was good. The Lord bless all of you.

 

[Poke]

I really wonder, if this situation was brought into modern times, and you happened to be of an ethnicity that was condemned by God as being wicked and sinful, if you would still consider an armed "soldier of God" impailing you with his sword an "undeniable act of God".

If God Himself brought down the walls, without a shot being fired by the other side, then I would know I'm on the wrong side.

You're also ignoring how wicked Jericho would have been. I accept that the hispanic invasion and 9/11 are both judgements from God, simply because of how wicked America has become. How much more deserving of complete destruction would a city be if it were nothing but a cesspool of homosexuals and worshipers of a false god that demanded human sacrifice?

Given the nature of Jericho, I would have moved away, let God kill everyone who remains!

 

[AHIMSA]

I accept that the hispanic invasion and 9/11 are both judgements from God

Given the nature of Jericho, I would have moved away, let God kill everyone who remains!

I'm glad we don't serve the same God then.

 

[SputnikBoy]

Today we also have a cesspool of sinners, Poke. What makes us any different?

 

[SputnikBoy]

Eliminate every homosexual from the face of the earth and the cesspool remains just as large. Who do Christians think they're kidding?

 

[Poke]

I accept that the hispanic invasion and 9/11 are both judgements from God

[quote:fa2c4]Given the nature of Jericho, I would have moved away, let God kill everyone who remains!

I'm glad we don't serve the same God then.[/quote:fa2c4]

I'm glad, too. Your god is Satan, the father of lies and the father of jews whom you idolize. Now, do you have anything intelligent to say? Or, did you just want me to remind you of who you serve?

 

[Poke]

Today we also have a cesspool of sinners, Poke. What makes us any different?

1) We are being punished for the wickedness our society, as I have already said.
2) We aren't yet as bad as those societies God had the Hebrews destroy.

Does every time the story of Noah's Flood come up, do you interject that today we're a cesspool of sinners and then ask, "What makes us any different?"

 

[Judy]

Dawkins admits his "presumptuous optimism" in hoping that his book will cause persons to set aside their faith. "If this book works as I intend, religious readers who open it will be atheists when they put it down," he asserts. Time will tell.

I would say that statement is the agenda of some here... right Quath!

 

[Poke]

I would say that statement is the agenda of some here... right Quath!

Richard Dawkins is a zealous proselytizer of Atheism. He's counting on those "Christians" conformed to worldly values, and naive of the situation, to be repulsed to the Bible, in his Thought Game. It works to some degree, look at SputnikBoy's and Ahimsa's kneejerk replies to me. The only reason that SputnikBoy and Ahimsa don't follow through and become Atheists is that the same mindlessness that caused them to criticize me prevents them from following through. You should notice that both of them failed to tell me why I'm wrong and why Dawkins is wrong.

Jericho deserved God's judgement, the same as Sodom. And, America sure isn't desering any blessings.

 

[Quath]

I really wonder, if this situation was brought into modern times, and you happened to be of an ethnicity that was condemned by God as being wicked and sinful, if you would still consider an armed "soldier of God" impailing you with his sword an "undeniable act of God".

I think the sad thing is this did happen to an extent. Hitler did use religious reasoning to justify the Holocaust against the "Christ killers." My guess is that Nazis may have felt that if God didn't want this to happen, he would stop it.

That reminds of racial issues, if you change the races, people's attitudes toward identical situations change, change dramatically. If a black man were to drag a white man to death, no one outside of the local community hears about it. If a white man were to drag a black man to death, everything relating to the case for years to come would be national news.

I think that is a very good point. I bet if you talk of Europeans taking over America, caucasians may see the morality differently than American Indians. However, I think the sad thing is that many adults do not understand the morality any better.

As for Joshua at Jericho, according to the biblical account, it was undeniably an act of God. I don't think I'm in a position to judge God. If God dropped a wall in China for an enemy army, I would have to approve of it, too.

I think that is one of the problems with religion. The Hebrews killed children because God said so. Muslims will commit suicide in a bombing for Allah. Christians owned slaves because the Bible said it was ok.

I would like to see more skepticism. If God says to go kill a child, I would hope more people would really question whether it is God or whether God is good.

I would say that statement is the agenda of some here... right Quath!

I am not sure if you mean me or someone else. I am not here to deconvert anyone. I am just trying to understand beliefs and why people hold them. Sometimes I want to argue a good point to see other perspectives. Sometimes I just want to see how believers and nonbelievers can get along.

Jericho deserved God's judgement, the same as Sodom. And, America sure isn't desering any blessings.

I feel sorry that people were killed in Jerico. It saddens me that children were among there, and people feel that killing these children is a righteous experience. ...And yet a prostitute that betrays her people is judged to be righteous enough to join God's army....

 

[Poke]

I feel sorry that people were killed in Jerico. It saddens me that children were among there, and people feel that killing these children is a righteous experience. ...And yet a prostitute that betrays her people is judged to be righteous enough to join God's army....

You're assuming the story in the Bible is false, that God didn't Himself bring down the wall.

Correct me if I'm wrong, from your perspective, the tribe of Hebrews assaulted an innocent city, and committed genocide so they could have the land to themselves. That would be evil.

But, from my perspective, the city was exceedingly evil. Children were sacrificed to false gods, innocent visitors were raped and sodomized, and the soccer players were forced to bruise and break their feet on rocks should they lose a soccer game to a rival city, so that they would play better the next time. Whatever the details, they were just plane wicked. They deserved to be destroyed and God has every right to be the destroyer. What is it to God if He destroys a city all at once, or destroys people serially by old age?

 

[AHIMSA]

I'm glad, too. Your god is Satan, the father of lies and the father of jews whom you idolize. Now, do you have anything intelligent to say? Or, did you just want me to remind you of who you serve?

Words and speech can mean very little if not uttered with integrity. Blind and heated accusations reveal more of the accuser than the accused.

I believe in a God that does not orchestrate mass murder, regardless of who these "sinners" are. You call this peaceful deity Satan.

I believe that the true capacity of human darkness is demonstrated in events such as 9/11, you call this event the holy judgement of God.

There are many things that I could say in response to this, though there is nothing I could say to change your opinions.

It seems to me that we gradually become that which we believe in, we fill ourselves with that to which we hold strong. What becomes of one who clings to a God filled with hatred, wrath and death? What becomes of one who clings to a God of life of peace and mercy?

I suppose only you can decide which God emodies which.

 

[Poke]

I believe in a God that does not orchestrate mass murder, regardless of who these "sinners" are. You call this peaceful deity Satan.

Then you don't believe the Bible. God did it to Sodom. God did it to the whole world, minus Noah's family. God did it to certain middle-east kingdoms, by the hand of the Hebrews. God even did it to Israel and Judea. The Bible says this.

God does it to each of us. There are about six billion people in the world today, and God will kill every one of them for sin.

I believe that the true capacity of human darkness is demonstrated in events such as 9/11, you call this event the holy judgement of God.

If the US had not done wickedness in the middle-east and if the US was not too wicked to look after the interests of her own people, 9/11 would not have happened. Anything you say differently, "they hate of for are freedoms", or whatever thought that might go through your head are lies.

There are many things that I could say in response to this, though there is nothing I could say to change your opinions.

There's nothing you've said that would even give me something to think about. They only thing you've done is personally attacked me without making a single point for your case.

 

[AHIMSA]

There's nothing you've said that would even give me something to think about

That's unfortunate. I will certainly labor towards that more diligently next time we engage in discussion.

 

[Quath]

You're assuming the story in the Bible is false, that God didn't Himself bring down the wall.

Correct me if I'm wrong, from your perspective, the tribe of Hebrews assaulted an innocent city, and committed genocide so they could have the land to themselves. That would be evil.

I agree partially. I would say that even if God were real and he wanted this, it would be evil.

But, from my perspective, the city was exceedingly evil. Children were sacrificed to false gods,

I guess I don't see much difference in children being killed for one God versus another. They are just as dead and they both died for a god.

If God were good, I would have expected more compassion. For example, God could have ordered the Israelites to take care of the children. That would have been less violent and destructive. God could have gone even further and killed them gently in their sleep.

They deserved to be destroyed and God has every right to be the destroyer.

A king may have the right to behead the innocent. That does not mean it is good morality for the king to do so.

What is it to God if He destroys a city all at once, or destroys people serially by old age?

That is a good point. However, if living on Earth is a good thing, then killing someone prematurely harms them. So this would be needless harm inflicted on children. If living on Earth is not good, then it doesn't matter if anyone is killed.