Remembering is not allowed!

[whirlwind]

• Ecclesiastes 1:11 There is no remembrance of former things; neither shall there be any remembrance of things that are to come with those that shall come after.

That is a fascinating verse! What "former things" do we not remember? What does that mean? Why can't we remember and what is it we are not allowed to remember. Where were we when those unremembered things happened? What, or where, are those now that "shall come after" us and what are they doing now that they won't remember when they arrive here?

 

[Sparkey]

Plumbing the depths of Ecclesiastes, Sis? Vanity, vanity all is vanity. These verses that follow are selected from a source you probably know: "Treasury of Scripture Knowledge". I like the Thompson Chain Reference for similar reason. There is Ecc 2:16; Psa 9:6; Isa 41:22-26; Isa 42:9 to consider, yes?

• [list:3aspv09a]<I'm including URL links to make study easier>

[/list:u:3aspv09a]

• Ecc 2:16 For [there is] no remembrance of the wise more than of the fool for ever; seeing that which now [is] in the days to come shall all be forgotten. And how dieth the wise [man]? as the fool.
  
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• Psa 9:6 O thou enemy, destructions are come to a perpetual end: and thou hast destroyed cities; their memorial is perished with them.
  
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• Isa 41:22 Let them bring [them] forth, and shew us what shall happen: let them shew the former things, what they [be], that we may consider them, and know the latter end of them; or declare us things for to come.
  
  [/*:m:3aspv09a]
• Isa 41:23-26 Shew the things that are to come hereafter, that we may know that ye [are] gods: yea, do good, or do evil, that we may be dismayed, and behold [it] together.
  
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• Isa 41:24 Behold, ye [are] of nothing, and your work of nought: an abomination [is he that] chooseth you.
  
  [/*:m:3aspv09a]
• Isa 41:25 I have raised up [one] from the north, and he shall come: from the rising of the sun shall he call upon my name: and he shall come upon princes as [upon] morter, and as the potter treadeth clay.
  
  [/*:m:3aspv09a]
• Isa 41:26 Who hath declared from the beginning, that we may know? and beforetime, that we may say, [He is] righteous? yea, [there is] none that sheweth, yea, [there is] none that declareth, yea, [there is] none that heareth your words.[/*:m:3aspv09a]

[/*:m:3aspv09a][*]Isa 42:9 Behold, the former things are come to pass, and new things do I declare: before they spring forth I tell you of them.[/*:m:3aspv09a][/list:u:3aspv09a]

Ecc 1:11 - [There is] no remembrance of former [things]; neither shall there be [any] remembrance of [things] that are to come with [those] that shall come after.

The word zikrown is Hebrew rendered, "remembrance" in our text but can mean "memorial stones" in other context.

זכרון לר×Âשנינוגנל×Âחרני×Â
There is no zikrown ri'shown (neither shall there be any) zikrown (remembrance) of things to come
( ×Âחרון 'acharown) .

Better to look to see it there - here you go: Blue Letter Bible. "The Preacher Solomon - Ecclesiastes 1 - (KJV - King James Version)." Blue Letter Bible. 1996-2009. 21 Sep 2009.
< http://www.blueletterbible.org/Bible.cfm?b=Ecc&c=1&t=KJV >
Press "C" for the Concordance and Lexicon.

Hope that helps,
~Sparrow

 

[sheshisown]

"Lettuce remember..."

:waving~ Hi whirlwind~

I can see Solomon sitting and meditating about the world and all of life and coming to an obvious conclusion...

Life just turns in cycles... Yesterday, tomorrow, and the next day will not be remembered... because one day melts into the next so well. It seems to me too, that life just moves in cycles, monotonous cycles. And it seems to me that we cannot escape it. We are in the cycle and someday we are just going to pass out of the cycle...

One generation passes away, another generation comes~~~ but the earth abides for ever! The sun rises, the sun goes down, and it comes back around to the place where it rose. The wind goes toward the south, and then turns around again, it blows to the north~ it whirls around continually, the wind returns again in it's unending circuits. All of the rivers run into the sea~ but the sea is not full... To the place from where the rivers come, there they return again... All things are full of work, yes? :yes And no man can understand it or explain it all. . .

The eye is not satisfied with seeing, the ear is not satisfied with hearing. The thing that has been, is what will be~ there is no new thing under the sun. (my paraphrase of Eccesiastes 1:4-9).

SO life just moves in cycles. History repeats itself and the cycles of life go on. The cycle of one generation following another. However, there is <NO CIRCLE of LIFE> at all. Surely there is an end, dear Solomon... How horrid to think that this merry-go-round will never stop! That a human being created in the image of God will return to live as a bird, or an a squid! POOP! <Sorry to curse> ... THAT EVIL LIE just makes me BOIL! :mad Sorry` off topic there...

totopic

So again the sun and the earth are in thier orbits and keep spinning on thier axises, and hold thier relationship to the sun. The wind, the rivers, all of life just moves in monotonous cycles.

Therefore~ what is the GOOD of remembering these temporal things? and David this great kings Dad said...
Do not remember the sins of my youth, nor my transgressions; According to Your mercy remember me, For Your goodness' sake, O LORD. :amen

But what did God SAY is worthy to be remembered?

The first use of the word remember is in Genesis 9:14-15 It shall be, when I bring a cloud over the earth, that the rainbow shall be seen in the cloud; and I will remember My covenant which is between Me and you and every living creature of all flesh; the waters shall never again become a flood to destroy all flesh.

Did you know that a rainbow is actually a circle not a bow? A FULL rainbow is only seen rarely when the horizon cuts off it's full orbed beauty. And here is something WONDERFUL... my sweet sister... no rainbow is alike, each one is created in the eye of each beholder... :crazy The light and water suspended in air float or whiz marvelously into the pattern each individual sees... because God does not make copies! Yes... in case you were wondering... if I am off my rocker here I know I am talking to the chior here... Of course He makes each day NEW! And all things will one day BECOME new! :shades

I guess poor wise Solomon was stumped in trying to delve into the mystries of creation, huh? Me too.

May our Lord bless our memories with those of Christ and His great Covenant! YES and AMEN!

sheshisown :shades

 

[Cornelius]

Ecc 1:9 That which hath been is that which shall be; and that which hath been done is that which shall be done: and there is no new thing under the sun.
Ecc 1:10 Is there a thing whereof it may be said, See, this is new? it hath been long ago, in the ages which were before us.
Ecc 1:11 There is no remembrance of the former generations; neither shall there be any remembrance of the latter generations that are to come, among those that shall come after.

We have to look in the context. In verse 9 is tells us that history repeats. Verse 10 tells us that this is indeed so, we are to look back and see it in the ages before us. Verse 10 tells us that this is forgotten wisdom . It tells us that this wisdom to "look back" to former generation to see what the future will bring for us, has been forgotten. And will stay forgotten even in the generations to come.

This is true. Just a very small group of Christians actually use this ancient tool to reveal the future. The Apostles used it, they called it a prophecy more sure"2Pe 1:19 And we have the word of prophecy made more sure;

Once we know this, we can start to unlock the prophecies in Revelation with more accuracy.

In a way the types and shadows in the Bible are just that: The things which will be again.

 

[Joe67]

Ps 95:6-11
6 O come, let us worship and bow down: let us kneel before the LORD our maker.
7 For he is our God; and we are the people of his pasture, and the sheep of his hand. To day if ye will hear his voice,
8 Harden not your heart, as in the provocation, and as in the day of temptation in the wilderness:
9 When your fathers tempted me, proved me, and saw my work.
10 Forty years long was I grieved with this generation, and said, It is a people that do err in their heart, and they have not known my ways:
11 Unto whom I sware in my wrath that they should not enter into my rest. KJV

John 4:21-24
21 Jesus saith unto her, Woman, believe me, the hour cometh, when ye shall neither in this mountain, nor yet at Jerusalem, worship the Father.

22 Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews.

23 But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.

24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth. KJV

I was educated to enter into God's rest by his wrath. I could not enter. The darkness, the valley of the shadow of death prevented me. God's wrath was so beautiful and desirable, promising to give me all that my human heart could desire, if I would obey perfectly, and offering "heaven" as well. God's wrath is glorious and beautiful, like a woman riding upon the back of a beast of wisdom with 7 heads. John admired the beauty of the wrath of God. It was ordained to life. But I found it to be unto death. Do not despise the wrath of God, or you will die under hand of 2 or 3 witnesses without remedy. There is a way of escape from the pleasure of the wrath of God, To day. There is a way to be reconciled to the discipline of God the Father and the afflictions of Christ for his Body's sake.

Idleness and fullness of bread brings sudden destruction; to Jerusalem as well as Samaria and Sodom, Jerusalem's sisters.

Luke 12:16-21
16 And he spake a parable unto them, saying, The ground of a certain rich man brought forth plentifully:
17 And he thought within himself, saying, What shall I do, because I have no room where to bestow my fruits?
18 And he said, This will I do: I will pull down my barns, and build greater; and there will I bestow all my fruits and my goods.
19 And I will say to my soul, Soul, thou hast much goods laid up for many years; take thine ease, eat, drink, and be merry.
20 But God said unto him, Thou fool, this night thy soul shall be required of thee: then whose shall those things be, which thou hast provided?

21 So is he that layeth up treasure for himself, and is not rich toward God. KJV

Spiritual things are discerned by and through the spirit on the left hand of grace and the right hand of faith ( for those who are left-handed ).

Joe

 

[stovebolts]

Ecc 1:9 That which hath been is that which shall be; and that which hath been done is that which shall be done: and there is no new thing under the sun.
Ecc 1:10 Is there a thing whereof it may be said, See, this is new? it hath been long ago, in the ages which were before us.
Ecc 1:11 There is no remembrance of the former generations; neither shall there be any remembrance of the latter generations that are to come, among those that shall come after.

We have to look in the context. In verse 9 is tells us that history repeats. Verse 10 tells us that this is indeed so, we are to look back and see it in the ages before us. Verse 10 tells us that this is forgotten wisdom . It tells us that this wisdom to "look back" to former generation to see what the future will bring for us, has been forgotten. And will stay forgotten even in the generations to come.

This is true. Just a very small group of Christians actually use this ancient tool to reveal the future. The Apostles used it, they called it a prophecy more sure"2Pe 1:19 And we have the word of prophecy made more sure;

Once we know this, we can start to unlock the prophecies in Revelation with more accuracy.

In a way the types and shadows in the Bible are just that: The things which will be again.

Agreed C,
Many say, and I agree... that Ecc was Solomon's "Confessions" E.G. 1 Kings 9-11

 

[whirlwind]

No wonder you all are among my favorite people on this forum. I thank you for your wonderful replies. I agree with what is written as applies to this flesh life. God does declare from the beginning what will be. The types we are given happen over and over and will until this age ends.... :yes

I do wonder if more is being said in that verse.

• Ecclesiastes 1:11 There is no remembrance of former things; neither shall there be any remembrance of things that are to come with those that shall come after.

There is a charming nighttime story in which it is said that the little indentation above our lip was made when our souls came to earth. An angel touched his finger to that spot and said....shhh...don't tell what you know.

Could the verse be reference to the time before, the time of which we have no memory. Those that will come after us now know all things but when they arrive they too will have no memory of former things.


PS:
And no Bonnie....I didn't know a rainbow was a full circle. :o I will add...thank goodness He doesn't remember the sins of our youth. :gah

 

[stovebolts]

Whirlwind,

While I see what your saying, within the context put forth by Cornelius, it would seem that verse 11 might be referring to a set of nations that rise and fall?

 

[whirlwind]

Whirlwind,

While I see what your saying, within the context put forth by Cornelius, it would seem that verse 11 might be referring to a set of nations that rise and fall?

That is true....just wondering here. :yes Look at the last verse in that chapter:

• 1:18 For in much wisdom is much grief: and he that increaseth knowledge increaseth sorrow.

Sorrow and grief when He gives us wisdom and knowledge. The wisdom, I assume, would be Biblical so this must mean grief from those who don't agree with you. The tribulation of sharing His Word.

• Revelation 10:9 And I went unto the angel, and said unto him, Give me the little book. And he said unto me, Take it, and eat it up; and it shall make thy belly bitter, but it shall be in thy mouth sweet as honey.

Wisdom and knowledge is sweet but can cause grief and sorrow...becoming bitter.

 

[Cornelius]

• Revelation 10:9 And I went unto the angel, and said unto him, Give me the little book. And he said unto me, Take it, and eat it up; and it shall make thy belly bitter, but it shall be in thy mouth sweet as honey.

Wisdom and knowledge is sweet but can cause grief and sorrow...becoming bitter. [/b]

We experience this earthly life from our belly. That is where you experience fear and joy and tensions. Our emotions are linked to our belly. (If you Google "Second brain stomach" you will see that this is also scientifically proven. It was know in the early part of last century already, but mostly ignored after that)

So when we read the Word of God (little book) then its sweet as we read it and chew on it. Its great to get a revelation ! But when that revelation demands that the flesh life dies, then it becomes so very bitter to the belly. Our flesh hates to be crucified and it hates it when the Sword puts it to death. Its bitter experience and we do in reality experience it in our belly.

God is SO correct in the Word when He describes things like this.

 

[Cornelius]

HEALTH

Ever get a gut feeling about someone, or I anxious butterflies in your stomach? That's because you have a second brain in your bowel, according to Michael Gershon, M.D., author of The Second Brain (HarperCollins, 1999), and a neurobiologist at New York's Columbia-Presbyterian Medical Center. Gershon recently explained to PT how an independent network of over 100 billion neurons in the gut not only signals our bodies to stress but causes illness.

http://www.psychologytoday.com/articles/199905/our-second-brain-the-stomach

 

[whirlwind]

• Revelation 10:9 And I went unto the angel, and said unto him, Give me the little book. And he said unto me, Take it, and eat it up; and it shall make thy belly bitter, but it shall be in thy mouth sweet as honey.

Wisdom and knowledge is sweet but can cause grief and sorrow...becoming bitter. [/b]

We experience this earthly life from our belly. That is where you experience fear and joy and tensions. Our emotions are linked to our belly. (If you Google "Second brain stomach" you will see that this is also scientifically proven. It was know in the early part of last century already, but mostly ignored after that)

So when we read the Word of God (little book) then its sweet as we read it and chew on it. Its great to get a revelation ! But when that revelation demands that the flesh life dies, then it becomes so very bitter to the belly. Our flesh hates to be crucified and it hates it when the Sword puts it to death. Its bitter experience and we do in reality experience it in our belly.

God is SO correct in the Word when He describes things like this.

That is most interesting! That "pit of the stomach" feeling when something goes wrong or as it is with me, anger seems to start there. "Tied in knots" is descriptive of the feeling.

So, you see the bitterness as being directed at, or happening in, oneself instead of others being bitter because of what is said? The struggle between flesh and spirit causes the bitterness.

I agree. :yes

 

[Ret]

So, you see the bitterness as being directed at, or happening in, oneself instead of others being bitter because of what is said? The struggle between flesh and spirit causes the bitterness.

I agree. :yes

• Prov 27:7 The full soul loatheth an honeycomb;
  but to the hungry soul every bitter thing is sweet. KJV

 

[Ret]

Ecc 1:9 That which hath been is that which shall be; and that which hath been done is that which shall be done: and there is no new thing under the sun.
Ecc 1:10 Is there a thing whereof it may be said, See, this is new? it hath been long ago, in the ages which were before us.
Ecc 1:11 There is no remembrance of the former generations; neither shall there be any remembrance of the latter generations that are to come, among those that shall come after.

Nothing NEW - UNDER the SUN..? Time, wrath and law (do/don't do) all appear NEW to the universe. Time, wrath, and law are the forms through which God exposes INIQUITY, the works of darkness. With the creation of this earth everything that is UNDER the SUN, exposes the iniquity which existed before the creation of this earth. The mystery of iniquity once hidden in the darkness, God is now exposing to the entire universe.

• Romans 4:15 Because the law worketh wrath:
  for where no law is, there is no transgression.
  
  Romans 5:13(For until the law sin was in the world:
  but sin is not imputed when there is no law. KJV

In heaven - no wrath/no law = sin is not imputed, iniquity is not counted as transgression!

The LIGHT given on DAY ONE in Genesis, is the revealing of God's GRACE and LOVE...which is magnified and made manifest more deeply in DARKNESS, even in GROSS DARKNESS! As/when the 'mystery of iniquity' comes to the full and is exposed...God is also bringing His elect to the LIGHT (Jesus Christ) IN whom there is no Darkness. INIQUITY as revealed in TIME - WRATH - LAW (do/don't do) will, all pass away with the lusts of the flesh and will be FORGOTTEN and stay FORGOTTEN for generations to come! BUT the WORD of GOD endures FOREVER!

• Isaiah 9:2
  2 The people that walked in darkness have seen a great light:
  they that dwell in the land of the shadow of death, upon them hath the light shined. KJV

 

[stovebolts]

Whirlwind,

While I see what your saying, within the context put forth by Cornelius, it would seem that verse 11 might be referring to a set of nations that rise and fall?

That is true....just wondering here. :yes Look at the last verse in that chapter:

• 1:18 For in much wisdom is much grief: and he that increaseth knowledge increaseth sorrow.

Sorrow and grief when He gives us wisdom and knowledge. The wisdom, I assume, would be Biblical so this must mean grief from those who don't agree with you. The tribulation of sharing His Word.

• Revelation 10:9 And I went unto the angel, and said unto him, Give me the little book. And he said unto me, Take it, and eat it up; and it shall make thy belly bitter, but it shall be in thy mouth sweet as honey.

Wisdom and knowledge is sweet but can cause grief and sorrow...becoming bitter.

That's an interesting point...

We know that all wisdom comes from God. (Proverbs 3:19, Job 38) and we know that Torah was given to Israel for the express purpose to be a light for the nations
Deuteronomy 4:6 Keep therefore and do them; for this is your wisdom and your understanding in the sight of the nations, which shall hear all these statutes, and say, Surely this great nation is a wise and understanding people.

Isaiah 42:6 I the LORD have called you in righteousness, and will hold your hand, and will keep you, and give you for a covenant to the people, for a light to the Gentiles;

In regard to Torah which was given to Israel as her wisdom,
Psalms 19:10 More to be desired are they than gold, yea, than much fine gold: sweeter also than honey and the honeycomb.

It was said that the Rabbi's would take a piece of honeycomb and place it on their students lips and say, "This is like Torah"

So imagine this for a second... The sweetness of Psalm 119... and unable to do it on a personal level, unable to do it on national level.

Romans 7:19 For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.

Bitter sweet eh?

 

[NIGHTMARE]

• Ecclesiastes 1:11 There is no remembrance of former things; neither shall there be any remembrance of things that are to come with those that shall come after.

That is a fascinating verse! What "former things" do we not remember? What does that mean? Why can't we remember and what is it we are not allowed to remember. Where were we when those unremembered things happened? What, or where, are those now that "shall come after" us and what are they doing now that they won't remember when they arrive here?

Ecclesiastes 1:11 "There is no remembrance of former things; neither shall there be any remembrance of things that are to come with those that shall come after."

The word "things" aint in the original text......Another word added to provide clarity,,or so the translators thought.....

So im thinging that since the the topic/subject is about men who walk under the sun,,,could it be no remeberance of former men????

But of course we have no rememberance of the age that was........

 

[stovebolts]

for clarity,

YLT

Ecclesiastes 1:11 There is not a remembrance of former generations; and also of the latter that are, there is no remembrance of them with those that are at the last.

I believe this to be specifically speaking of Esau and Edom.

Obadiah 1:18 And the house of Jacob hath been a fire, And the house of Joseph a flame, And the house of Esau for stubble, And they have burned among them, And they have consumed them, And there is not a remnant to the house of Esau, For Jehovah hath spoken.

 

[Joe67]

SB,

Esau represents a specific reasoning that is a twin of Jesus' reasoning, the elect servant of God. That reasoning, that is in the flesh of all men, will be "taken away" when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ; according to the gospel as preached and taught by the apostle Paul. Romans 2:16.

Both Esau and Jacob were sons of the "miracle child", Isaac; promised and fulfilled by God when Abraham and Sarah's bodies were as "good as dead."

Esau was devoted to his father and Isaac was determined to give Esau the blessing.

Joe

 

[stovebolts]

Esau was devoted to his father and Isaac was determined to give Esau the blessing.

Yes Joe, but none the less, God did say that the older would serve the younger, yet Jacob still deceived not only his brother, but his father as well for what God had already promised... Kinda looks like taking matters into ones own hands (Abraham / Ishmael) was a family trait wouldn't you say?

But in regard to Romans 2:16, I'm having a difficult time putting that within context of your post. Help a guy out would ya?

 

[Joe67]

Esau was devoted to his father and Isaac was determined to give Esau the blessing.

Yes Joe, but none the less, God did say that the older would serve the younger, yet Jacob still deceived not only his brother, but his father as well for what God had already promised... Kinda looks like taking matters into ones own hands (Abraham / Ishmael) was a family trait wouldn't you say?

But in regard to Romans 2:16, I'm having a difficult time putting that within context of your post. Help a guy out would ya?

SB,

Esau and Jacob were unidentical twins. Both are children of the type of the gospel son who the father loved, his only son who he loved. Isaac therein being a type of Jesus. In Isaac the Seed is called.

The gospel has twin sons of thought. One line of thought in the gospel is like Esau. The other line of thought in the gospel is like Jacob. One line is a hunter. The other line is a supplanter. The hunter line despises birthright and agrees to sell it. The supplanter line thinks it can work for the gift of God; not with currency but with a mess of pottage. Later, unwillingly, Jacob submitted to the authority of his mother in deceiving his father for the blessing. The elect of God are supplanters until they are converted at their brook Jabbok, through the blessing of the angel that first wounds them and makes them weak.

As the secrets of our hearts are judged by Jesus Christ, we, who are given to live in the end time of the gospel of the kingdom , are given to see where we stand in regard to the types of the gospel. Therein God judges the world in righteousness by the man he has ordained, and has given all men assurance in that he has raised that man from the dead. Acts 17:31.

Joe