Resurrection of the dead in AD70

[Lehigh3]

The Bible describes 2 types of "resurrections." Which one had not occurred until after Paul's death? Paul died approx. AD62-64. The resurrection of the dead occurred at "the end of the age" AD70.

Here is an excellent work of what the Bible teaches about the dichotomy of the terms "death" & "resurrection." Full Preterist material (not traditional)

From my notes: The Resurrection from the Dead

 

[Alabaster]

If the resurrection has occurred, we would all know about it, as King's kids. Therefore the belief that Jesus has already returned is completely unfounded, and serves to only divide the Body of Christ.

Doctrine of demons, I call it.

 

[TRUTH over TRADITION]

The Bible describes 2 types of "resurrections." Which one had not occurred until after Paul's death? Paul died approx. AD62-64. The resurrection of the dead occurred at "the end of the age" AD70.

Here is an excellent work of what the Bible teaches about the dichotomy of the terms "death" & "resurrection." Full Preterist material (not traditional)

From my notes: The Resurrection from the Dead

The message of both Jesus and his apostles both lead one to conclude that Jesus was to return within the lifetime of those to which he was a contemporary. Part of Jesus message about returning included a gathering of his elect which many consider to have been the "little flock", "firstfruits", and 144,000 mentioned in scripture. This group is likely the group referenced in Revelation 20 who are said to be given reign with Jesus for 1000 years and be the ones party to the 1st resurrection over which the 2nd death will have no power. These individuals were likely given an "upward" resurrection to the heavenly realm and will be kings and priests throughout the ages to come.

We know that in addition to what was spoken of in the 1st century that there will be a resurrection of both the just and the ubjust as spoken of in John 5 where the just will be given life and the unjust will be raised to judgment. It seems that all who are party to this resurrection could potentially be subject to the 2nd death depending of course on whether they are judged righteous or unrighteous.

 

[Alabaster]

Christians are already considered righteous. They do not stand in judgment. We are still awaiting the glorious rapture where Jesus will sweep in for His Bride, and we will feast at the wedding and return with Him, and set up His Millennial Kingdom and reign with Him 1000 years---not just a few---all of us will be judges.

Revelation 20:4a NLT
Then I saw thrones, and the people sitting on them had been given the authority to judge.

1 Corinthians 6:3 NLT
Don’t you realize that we will judge angels? So you should surely be able to resolve ordinary disputes in this life.

 

[Lehigh3]

The message of both Jesus and his apostles both lead one to conclude that Jesus was to return within the lifetime of those to which he was a contemporary. Part of Jesus message about returning included a gathering of his elect which many consider to have been the "little flock", "firstfruits", and 144,000 mentioned in scripture. This group is likely the group referenced in Revelation 20 who are said to be given reign with Jesus for 1000 years and be the ones party to the 1st resurrection over which the 2nd death will have no power. These individuals were likely given an "upward" resurrection to the heavenly realm and will be kings and priests throughout the ages to come.

We know that in addition to what was spoken of in the 1st century that there will be a resurrection of both the just and the ubjust as spoken of in John 5 where the just will be given life and the unjust will be raised to judgment. It seems that all who are party to this resurrection could potentially be subject to the 2nd death depending of course on whether they are judged righteous or unrighteous.

We are in agreement until your last paragraph. I was wondering why you wouldn't think that the resurrection depicted in John 5, we have to "repeat" a judgment time? Doesn't Jesus in John 5 include both the "and now is" (spiritually resurrected in Christ) group
& "the time is coming" group (resurrection of the physically dead) by saying a "resurrection of the just & unjust?
The physically dead weren't being resurrected as Jesus spoke, right? So, there is a reference to the living(& now is) & the resurrection of the physically dead as a general resurrection (in Rev.20:11-15) AND the first resurrection depicted separately as the apostles "sat on thrones" judging during their great commissions.
I had posted this link before. But is appropriate to our discussion about their being only 1 resurrection (which is spiritual) & a corporate resurrection of the physically dead from Hades to either heaven or lake of fire. Lake of fire was the second death. Yet the "book of life " referred to was Israel's book of life. Then we have all entering into the church (new Jerusalem) & call them part of the Lamb's book of life.

Do we agree that Jesus was speaking about 1 general resurrection "on the last day?" That would be at the resurrection of the righteous bc they believed in the Christ, I presume.
Full Preterism: Firstfruits Generation and the First Resurrection of the Dead - Sovereign Grace Preterism

 

[Lehigh3]

Christians are already considered righteous. They do not stand in judgment. We are still awaiting the glorious rapture where Jesus will sweep in for His Bride, and we will feast at the wedding and return with Him, and set up His Millennial Kingdom and reign with Him 1000 years---not just a few---all of us will be judges.

Revelation 20:4a NLT
Then I saw thrones, and the people sitting on them had been given the authority to judge.

1 Corinthians 6:3 NLT
Don’t you realize that we will judge angels? So you should surely be able to resolve ordinary disputes in this life.

Christians may be "righteous" in your POV (& rightly so) but what are we reaping now in the kingdom bc of our walking in the spirit & not being spiritually dead from works of the flesh, works of the flesh which bring spiritual death- like jealousy- & what is our power now, not later?!!

John 16:20-21 Verily, verily, I say unto you, That ye shall weep and lament, but the world shall rejoice: and ye shall be sorrowful, but your sorrow shall be turned into joy. 21 A woman when she is in travail hath sorrow, because her hour is come: but as soon as she is delivered of the child, she remembereth no more the anguish, for joy that a man is born into the world.​

So we may ask: If the child is referring to the new spiritual nation, how then was this man-child to rule all nations with a rod of iron? Is
this not referring exclusively to Christ? Well, let's look at who is ruling with the rod of iron:

Revelation 2:26-27 And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations: 27 And he shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers: even as I received of my Father.​

"He that overcometh..to him will I give power over the nations...shall rule them with a rod of iron." This seems to be referring to the reign of Christ through His people in judging the world. Even Paul taught this:

1 Corinthians 6:2 Do ye not know that the saints shall judge the world? and if the world shall be judged by you, are ye unworthy to judge the smallest matters?​

Yet Christ is said to have this position:

Acts 17:31 Because he hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he hath ordained; whereof he hath given assurance unto all men, in that he hath raised him from the dead. Romans 3:6 God forbid: for then how shall God judge the world?
​

Therefore, Christ and HIS BODY who are all one IN HIM are now judging and ruling the nations.

 

[TRUTH over TRADITION]

Although I agree with much of what is proposed in preterism, I feel that many preterists miss the mark in their depiction of Jesus' 1st century return. It seems that the preterist concensus is that that ewturn was a 'figurative' one, but scripture seems to indicate that a literal return was to take place. What that means is that there was a literal physical ressurction of the saints that had died who along with the saints who were still alive and had fled to the mountains met Jesus in the air.

 

[Hitch]

Although I agree with much of what is proposed in preterism, I feel that many preterists miss the mark in their depiction of Jesus' 1st century return. It seems that the preterist concensus is that that ewturn was a 'figurative' one, but scripture seems to indicate that a literal return was to take place. What that means is that there was a literal physical ressurction of the saints that had died who along with the saints who were still alive and had fled to the mountains met Jesus in the air.

Christ's 'return' @AD70 was as' figurative' as the destruction.

 

[Lehigh3]

Although I agree with much of what is proposed in preterism, I feel that many preterists miss the mark in their depiction of Jesus' 1st century return. It seems that the preterist concensus is that that ewturn was a 'figurative' one, but scripture seems to indicate that a literal return was to take place. What that means is that there was a literal physical ressurction of the saints that had died who along with the saints who were still alive and had fled to the mountains met Jesus in the air.

While your last sentence just seemed to skate off into space for me- as far as Preterists believing only a figurative return is not true. It wouldn't make sense. He either "returned" or He he did not (or hasn't) We believe the nature of His return is different. I say it was supernatural coming. More spiritual than physical. And described with apocalyptic (figurative) & prophetic language.
Pls note the preterist Q & A below.
Also, didn't Jesus say :as lightning appears from east to west, so will the coming of the Son of man be?
Not much of a millennium reign on earth- or any "physical" return to the earth. So it must be the "signs" that would prove His return.
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][/FONT]QUESTION: Did Jesus Christ return in AD 70 without fanfare?[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]ANSWER: I wouldn't exactly call the destruction of Jerusalem in AD 70 an event “without fanfare.†Josephus mentions some loud voices and trumpet sounds being heard, as well as angelic armies being visible in the sky over Judea at the time of the Jewish revolt (AD 66-70). Jews today still commemorate it in some fashion in almost every joyous occasion they celebrate (the shattered goblet at Jewish weddings, and a special fast day every year in August (Tisha b'Av) are two ways in which they still remember the destruction). Rabbi Davis (from White Plains NY), in his opening remarks of his (1978?) lecture on “Post-Biblical Judaism,†commented that he would begin the study of post-Biblical Judaism with “the end.†Then he said, he would begin with AD 70., because AD 70 was “the end of Biblical Judaism†and the beginning of rabbinic or Talmudic Judaism. Josephus, a Jewish priest and one of the ten Jewish generals who started the war with Rome in 66 A.D., gives his eyewitness account of that gruesome judgment which Jesus said was, “such as has not occurred since the beginning of the world until now, nor ever shall.†(Matt. 24:21) A few days later Jesus (at His trial) said the High Priest & the Sanhedrin, “shall see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of power, and coming on the clouds of heaven.†(Matt. 27:64) Josephus, Tacitus, Eusebius and the Talmud all record the FACT that God’s presence was perceived at that awesome destruction. They even record that angelic armies were seen in the clouds. -Edward E. Stevens[/FONT]

 

[TRUTH over TRADITION]

While your last sentence just seemed to skate off into space for me- as far as Preterists believing only a figurative return is not true. It wouldn't make sense. He either "returned" or He he did not (or hasn't) We believe the nature of His return is different. I say it was supernatural coming. More spiritual than physical. And described with apocalyptic (figurative) & prophetic language.
Pls note the preterist Q & A below.
Also, didn't Jesus say :as lightning appears from east to west, so will the coming of the Son of man be?
Not much of a millennium reign on earth- or any "physical" return to the earth. So it must be the "signs" that would prove His return.
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]QUESTION: Did Jesus Christ return in AD 70 without fanfare?[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]ANSWER: I wouldn't exactly call the destruction of Jerusalem in AD 70 an event “without fanfare.†Josephus mentions some loud voices and trumpet sounds being heard, as well as angelic armies being visible in the sky over Judea at the time of the Jewish revolt (AD 66-70). Jews today still commemorate it in some fashion in almost every joyous occasion they celebrate (the shattered goblet at Jewish weddings, and a special fast day every year in August (Tisha b'Av) are two ways in which they still remember the destruction). Rabbi Davis (from White Plains NY), in his opening remarks of his (1978?) lecture on “Post-Biblical Judaism,†commented that he would begin the study of post-Biblical Judaism with “the end.†Then he said, he would begin with AD 70., because AD 70 was “the end of Biblical Judaism†and the beginning of rabbinic or Talmudic Judaism. Josephus, a Jewish priest and one of the ten Jewish generals who started the war with Rome in 66 A.D., gives his eyewitness account of that gruesome judgment which Jesus said was, “such as has not occurred since the beginning of the world until now, nor ever shall.†(Matt. 24:21) A few days later Jesus (at His trial) said the High Priest & the Sanhedrin, “shall see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of power, and coming on the clouds of heaven.†(Matt. 27:64) Josephus, Tacitus, Eusebius and the Talmud all record the FACT that God’s presence was perceived at that awesome destruction. They even record that angelic armies were seen in the clouds. -Edward E. Stevens[/FONT]

This is where we differ. I believe Jesus LITERALLY returned in the 1st century and that a physical resurrection of the saints happenned.
In scripture, there is the depiction of a glorious wedding feast of the Lamb. I believe this banquet is an actual "end time" or post end time event. When Jesus comes with his Bride, the Little Flock, the rest of mankind who will have been resurrected to life age lasting, will be the guests.
Preterism seems to miss this and some of its advocates even believe we are living in the time of a new heaven on the new earth. I think a proper understanding of scripture would lead one to say to such preterists, "not yet."

 

[Alabaster]

Christians may be "righteous" in your POV (& rightly so) but what are we reaping now in the kingdom bc of our walking in the spirit & not being spiritually dead from works of the flesh, works of the flesh which bring spiritual death- like jealousy- & what is our power now, not later?!!

John 16:20-21 Verily, verily, I say unto you, That ye shall weep and lament, but the world shall rejoice: and ye shall be sorrowful, but your sorrow shall be turned into joy. 21 A woman when she is in travail hath sorrow, because her hour is come: but as soon as she is delivered of the child, she remembereth no more the anguish, for joy that a man is born into the world.


So we may ask: If the child is referring to the new spiritual nation, how then was this man-child to rule all nations with a rod of iron?​

​

We are called to be overcomers and to occupy until He comes!

Luke 19:13
And he called his ten servants, and delivered them ten pounds, and said unto them, Occupy till I come.

That passage of Scripture does NOT refer to any child that represents anything. It is merely a metaphorical reference to labour pain that yields to joy in childbirth.

Is this not referring exclusively to Christ? Well, let's look at who is ruling with the rod of iron:

Revelation 2:26-27 And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations: 27 And he shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers: even as I received of my Father.​

"He that overcometh..to him will I give power over the nations...shall rule them with a rod of iron." This seems to be referring to the reign of Christ through His people in judging the world. Even Paul taught this:

1 Corinthians 6:2 Do ye not know that the saints shall judge the world? and if the world shall be judged by you, are ye unworthy to judge the smallest matters?​

Yet Christ is said to have this position:

Acts 17:31 Because he hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he hath ordained; whereof he hath given assurance unto all men, in that he hath raised him from the dead. Romans 3:6 God forbid: for then how shall God judge the world?
​

Therefore, Christ and HIS BODY who are all one IN HIM are now judging and ruling the nations.

Not happening yet. Look around you.

 

[Lehigh3]

​

[/INDENT]We are called to be overcomers and to occupy until He comes!

Luke 19:13
And he called his ten servants, and delivered them ten pounds, and said unto them, Occupy till I come.

That passage of Scripture does NOT refer to any child that represents anything. It is merely a metaphorical reference to labour pain that yields to joy in childbirth.



Not happening yet. Look around you.

One should never base a doctrine on the parables. From the onset you don't seem to understand the parable bc of audience relevance anyway.
In the case of eschatology, & your example in Luke 19:13, when ppl ignore the historical setting and audience relevance of biblical passages, they are likely to make improper applications. The simple "you" of direct address to the audience to whom the words were written or spoken is wrongly applied to us. The same is true of "we." In other words, "we" become the "ye" and the "we" of passages whose content was never intended to apply directly to us! Also, student's using improper eisegesis (reading one's eschatological system into a particular passage), often ignore or redefine simple words such as "near" and "soon"--not because the text requires them to do so because their system requires it!

yes the notes are in depth & John 16's metaphor was only the beginning of the "woman in labor" metaphors. Spiritual Israel parallels with Rev12 & the woman clothed with the Sun & the fulfillment of Isaiah 66:5-13 NKJV,
The LORD Vindicates Zion

5 Hear the word of the LORD,
You who tremble at His word:

“ Your brethren who hated you,
Who cast you out for My name’s sake, said,

‘ Let the LORD be glorified,
That we may see your joy.’
But they shall be ashamed.â€
6 The sound of noise from the city!
A voice from the temple!
The voice of the LORD,
Who fully repays His enemies!
7 “ Before she was in labor, she gave birth;
Before her pain came,
She delivered a male child.
8 Who has heard such a thing?
Who has seen such things?
Shall the earth be made to give birth in one day?
Or shall a nation be born at once?
For as soon as Zion was in labor,
She gave birth to her children.
9 Shall I bring to the time of birth, and not cause delivery?†says the LORD.

“ Shall I who cause delivery shut up the womb?†says your God.
10 “ Rejoice with Jerusalem,
And be glad with her, all you who love her;
Rejoice for joy with her, all you who mourn for her;
11 That you may feed and be satisfied
With the consolation of her bosom,
That you may drink deeply and be delighted
With the abundance of her glory.â€

12 For thus says the LORD:


“ Behold, I will extend peace to her like a river,
And the glory of the Gentiles like a flowing stream.
Then you shall feed;
On her sides shall you be carried,
And be dandled on her knees.
13 As one whom his mother comforts,
So I will comfort you;
And you shall be comforted in Jerusalem.â€
(new Jerusalem)

And like the unbelieving Jews in Jesus' generation, they wanted a physical & material/& political kingdom instead of a moral/spiritual awakening by the Messiah.
He corrects that by telling us that "the kingdom of God is inside you."
So we reign in Christ & are God's glory on earth right now. Christ reigns over the nations with a rod of iron. The word of God is a two-edged sword also.
It has "power" for us today & not just in some distant, irrelevant future!


​

 

[Lehigh3]

This is where we differ. I believe Jesus LITERALLY returned in the 1st century and that a physical resurrection of the saints happenned.
In scripture, there is the depiction of a glorious wedding feast of the Lamb. I believe this banquet is an actual "end time" or post end time event. When Jesus comes with his Bride, the Little Flock, the rest of mankind who will have been resurrected to life age lasting, will be the guests.
Preterism seems to miss this and some of its advocates even believe we are living in the time of a new heaven on the new earth. I think a proper understanding of scripture would lead one to say to such preterists, "not yet."

Well, you call raising those in Hades to their inheritance in heaven "physical" I would use the word "literal" & much more in the spiritual realm than "the natural" though. Preterists believe Christ literally returned in AD70 & literally raised both the just & the unjust.
I do see what you mean about those that fled to the mountains like Jesus warned in Mt.24. This group is accounted for in history. These were Hebrew Christians that did quit the city like a sinking ship when they saw the abomination of the Romans coming. In AD67, before Israel's great tribulation of 67-70.5- these Christians left & were recipients of the salvation written in Hebrews.
Christ would appear over Jerusalem in the clouds as a sign of His coming (he returns once FOR those who were waiting for Him & destroys the enemies of the church- for their sake (as in 2Thess.1) These are also the group that wait till the end of the 1335 days (feast of tabernacles time) in Daniel 12, & are called "blessed."
Have you read the Jewish war by Josephus at all T.O.T? Much of the natural & literal events line up with the symbolism used in Revelation, etc.

 

[Alabaster]

One should never base a doctrine on the parables. From the onset you don't seem to understand the parable bc of audience relevance anyway.

You have no idea what I understand. Perhaps you do not grasp the meaning of parables.

In the case of eschatology, & your example in Luke 19:13, when ppl ignore the historical setting and audience relevance of biblical passages, they are likely to make improper applications. The simple "you" of direct address to the audience to whom the words were written or spoken is wrongly applied to us. The same is true of "we." In other words, "we" become the "ye" and the "we" of passages whose content was never intended to apply directly to us! Also, student's using improper eisegesis (reading one's eschatological system into a particular passage), often ignore or redefine simple words such as "near" and "soon"--not because the text requires them to do so because their system requires it!

Squeeze and poke! Make your notions fit!

Scripture is alive and speaks to those who are listening to Holy Spirit as He teaches. It is all written to US. It is hard for some who are only seeking knowledge to grasp that there is a personal aspect to it, and cannot discern that God is speaking to all of His people.

yes the notes are in depth & John 16's metaphor was only the beginning of the "woman in labor" metaphors. Spiritual Israel parallels with Rev12 & the woman clothed with the Sun & the fulfillment of Isaiah 66:5-13 NKJV,
The LORD Vindicates Zion

5 Hear the word of the LORD,
You who tremble at His word:

“ Your brethren who hated you,
Who cast you out for My name’s sake, said,

‘ Let the LORD be glorified,
That we may see your joy.’
But they shall be ashamed.”
6 The sound of noise from the city!
A voice from the temple!
The voice of the LORD,
Who fully repays His enemies!
7 “ Before she was in labor, she gave birth;
Before her pain came,
She delivered a male child.
8 Who has heard such a thing?
Who has seen such things?
Shall the earth be made to give birth in one day?
Or shall a nation be born at once?
For as soon as Zion was in labor,
She gave birth to her children.
9 Shall I bring to the time of birth, and not cause delivery?” says the LORD.

“ Shall I who cause delivery shut up the womb?” says your God.
10 “ Rejoice with Jerusalem,
And be glad with her, all you who love her;
Rejoice for joy with her, all you who mourn for her;
11 That you may feed and be satisfied
With the consolation of her bosom,
That you may drink deeply and be delighted
With the abundance of her glory.”

12 For thus says the LORD:


“ Behold, I will extend peace to her like a river,
And the glory of the Gentiles like a flowing stream.
Then you shall feed;
On her sides shall you be carried,
And be dandled on her knees.
13 As one whom his mother comforts,
So I will comfort you;
And you shall be comforted in Jerusalem.”
(new Jerusalem)

And like the unbelieving Jews in Jesus' generation, they wanted a physical & material/& political kingdom instead of a moral/spiritual awakening by the Messiah.
He corrects that by telling us that "the kingdom of God is inside you."
So we reign in Christ & are God's glory on earth right now. Christ reigns over the nations with a rod of iron. The word of God is a two-edged sword also.
It has "power" for us today & not just in some distant, irrelevant future!

​

It is simply erroneous interpretation to assign an identity to the imaginary child when the Lord was only talking about the pain and suffering of childbirth and the joy afterward, in reference to His death and RESURRECTION!!

 

[Lehigh3]

You have no idea what I understand. Perhaps you do not grasp the meaning of parables.

Squeeze and poke! Make your notions fit!

Scripture is alive and speaks to those who are listening to Holy Spirit as He teaches. It is all written to US. It is hard for some who are only seeking knowledge to grasp that there is a personal aspect to it, and cannot discern that God is speaking to all of His people.

​

It is simply erroneous interpretation to assign an identity to the imaginary child when the Lord was only talking about the pain and suffering of childbirth and the joy afterward, in reference to His death and RESURRECTION!!

No kidding. I already said my post on John 16 was incomplete - but it is too late to edit. Don't focus on a minor negative & avoid the rest of the post.

Have you read any Josephus, alabaster?

The scripture demands audience relevance. Jesus was addressing the apostles & disciples (the lost tribes of Israel) plus the Pharisees & Sanhedrin of the synagogue.
You think you will be removed from this earth just prior to another world coming!

Yet Jesus clearly stated (& to His apostles & disciples DIRECTLY) how He prayed they wouldn't be taken out of the world, but kept from the evil one in JOHN 17- so you can continue reading about the "joy" & the power from the coming of the Holy Spirit in John 16, then continue & understand John 17.

 

[TRUTH over TRADITION]

Well, you call raising those in Hades to their inheritance in heaven "physical" I would use the word "literal" & much more in the spiritual realm than "the natural" though. Preterists believe Christ literally returned in AD70 & literally raised both the just & the unjust.

The writings of Josephus as well as some of the accounts by Tacitus seem to back the case for Jesus' 1st century return. As I said earlier, I believe preterists have many things right, BUT their understanding that BOTH the just and the unjust were raised is the main point of contention I have with the belief they propose. I believe scripture only supports the notion that the saints, (those who had been sealed with God's Holy Breath) were the ONLY ones party to the resurrection that took place at or around Jesus' coming. I believe this resurrection was the one Paul spoke of in 1 Cor 15 and that those individuals were raised from their graves and THEN clothed with immortality and taken (along with those saints who were still alive at the time) with Jesus to share in a heavenly inheritance.

To be totally clear let me state some things that I am using as givens so that you can fully understand what I am saying. First I wish to assert that the whole of man, man's soul consists of on mind and body and that when man dies, the whole man sleeps the sleep of death and no etherial component of man exists that could go to heaven, hell, or the hadean realm. Therefore, in order for there to be a resurrection of the man, the physical body would need to be caused to come out of stasis by being once again quickened by the breath of God.

 

[Lehigh3]

Well, there was one resurrection of the dead as a matter of fact. Rev.20:11-15.

The "resurrection" life of the martyrs depicted in the millennium (40 yrs in 1st century AD-26-66) is something spiritual.

Preterists believe the spirit returns to God who gave it- And since heaven was made available at Christ's parousia in AD70 & the temple went down for us to enter the holy of holies- like Abraham - we go to heaven & God gives us the body in heaven at our physical death when the spirit returns to God.
But yes, the wedding already took place. But that does not mean that we today haven't become part of the Bride.
I'll be back.

 

[warhorse]

The Bible describes 2 types of "resurrections." Which one had not occurred until after Paul's death? Paul died approx. AD62-64. The resurrection of the dead occurred at "the end of the age" AD70.

Here is an excellent work of what the Bible teaches about the dichotomy of the terms "death" & "resurrection." Full Preterist material (not traditional)

From my notes: The Resurrection from the Dead

Informative, wrong but informative.

 

[Alabaster]

No kidding. I already said my post on John 16 was incomplete - but it is too late to edit. Don't focus on a minor negative & avoid the rest of the post.

Have you read any Josephus, alabaster?

The scripture demands audience relevance. Jesus was addressing the apostles & disciples (the lost tribes of Israel) plus the Pharisees & Sanhedrin of the synagogue.
You think you will be removed from this earth just prior to another world coming!

Yet Jesus clearly stated (& to His apostles & disciples DIRECTLY) how He prayed they wouldn't be taken out of the world, but kept from the evil one in JOHN 17- so you can continue reading about the "joy" & the power from the coming of the Holy Spirit in John 16, then continue & understand John 17.

Do you belong to a bible believing church that teaches the word well? Because what you derive from the prayer of Jesus is not contextual, nor is He praying about what you think. It is just not good bible interpretation, period.

Jesus, in John 17, was asking God to not take them out of the world as a measure to spare them trouble, but to preserve them from the evil one. Now, there's relevance for you. There is no eschatological meaning in His words, there!

Indeed the saints will be removed from the world, and when the Lord comes back, we will be with Him and EVERY EYE WILL SEE HIM. The word tells us that we will be with him forevermore and will go with Him wherever He goes.

So----where is He? I don't see Him. There comes a point when spiritualizing everything becomes a major hindrance. This is one of those times!

 

[Lehigh3]

Perhaps it's you that needs to join an appropriate church that doesn't teach end time madness.

I indeed have heard the Word for years by an excellent non-denom. church that would never & never did say the terms "second coming" or "end times"

Why? Because they taught about salvation & faith, & covered the OT much more than one hears in general.

Faith comes by hearing & hearing the word of God. But it absolutely depends on the doctrine they're teaching also.

Jesus said his apostles & disciples shouldn't be taken out of this world, period.

That sinks your "rapture in the sky" fiction right there.

All will physically die. It's the sad part of life- but since our hope & faith dictate an afterlife- we aren't to be in fear of dying & seek an escape from what happens to all mankind!