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Rev. 1 - 4 -- Futuristic View

JM

Member
Anyone study this view, which says the entire Book of Revelation is futuristic?

A few notes on this view:

*By the time John wrote the Apocalypse, the blessing of God had completely departed from Israel.

*The Temple and Jerusalem had already been destroyed by Titus and the sacrificial system lay in ruin. Both Paul and Peter have suffered martyrdom, and the majority of those saved at Pentecost under the kingdom gospel are now with the Lord.

*This raises the question: To whom was John writing? While the Church, the Body of Christ is the means through which God was channeling His blessing at the time, we know John was directed by the Spirit to confine his ministry to the circumcision (Israel) (Gal. 2:9).

*Those who may have reservations about John addressing future Israel should remember that the same is true of many Old Testament prophecies regarding the coming Tribulation. In fact, nearly half of the Book of Daniel falls into this very category. So then, the seven churches to whom John is writing are seven future Jewish assemblies located in Asia Minor (Rev. 1:11).

*As a Hebrew addressing Hebrews, John identifies himself with his kinsman after the flesh. He was their brother and companion in troublous times. If we consult the original here we learn that the definite article precedes the noun, tribulation; consequently, John was their companion during "the" seven-year Tribulation and the Millennium that followed.

*These are the things "which must shortly come to pass" spoken of in verse 1. The reference is to those who will be living at that day. This is confirmed for us by the apostle's next statement: "I was in the Spirit on the Lord's day." Tradition teaches that the Lord's day is Sunday, which is the day Christians worship. However, this is foreign to the Scriptures.

Peace,

JM
 
Daniel was not a christian , but John was .

Jesus was the one that called it the church, before there was a church.

And any Jews that are saved will be a part of the church.

God does not have two plans of salvation.

And the churches that are addressed here are the christian church.
 
What did Jesus preach? Him and Him crucified? Did Christ preach, 'the kingdom of Heaven is at hand?'

Keeping in mind the op, consider the follow.

"THE EVERLASTING GOSPEL" (or GOOD NEWS).
This was proclaimed from the first, i.e. after the Fall, and it was proclaimed to men as men, by God, the Creator, to His creatures. Its message was that the Creator alone to be feared and worshipped, and men were to have no other gods beside Him. He was the holy and righteous One, and He was, and is, and will be the only and final Judge of men. God proclaimed this from the first, and among its heralds were ENOCH, "the seventh from Adam", who proclaimed His coming for this judgment of the ungodly (Jude 14:15); and NOAH, a herald of righteousness and of coming righteous judgment (Heb. 11:7 and 2Pet, 2:5).

When the "calling on high" shall have been given (Phil. 3:14), and when "transgressors are come to the full" (Dan. 8:23), and before the Kingdom is set up in glory, this Gospel (or Good News) will again be proclaimed (Rev. 14:6). It is "everlasting", and men, as such, will be called upon to "Fear God, and give glory to Him; for the hour of His judgment is come : and worship Him that made heaven, and earth", &c (Rev. 14:7). This is the Gospel proclaimed by the Creator to His sinful creatures after the Fall; and it will be proclaimed again at the end. Hence its name "everlasting". Then followed :--

THE GOSPEL (or GOOD NEWS) OF THE KINGDOM.
To Abraham and his seed was the good news proclaimed, and the promise given that God would make of him a nation in whom all the families of the earth should be blessed (Gen. 12:1-3). This good news was gradually expanded and developed. In Gen. 15:4 the heir was announced, and this heir was to be the Messiah (Gal. 3:16). In Gen. 15:8-21 the inheritance was secured by an unconditional promise (not by a covenant between two parties, one of whom might break it, Gal. 3:18-20). That inheritance was (and is yet to be) "the Holy Land", "Immanuel's Land" (Isa. 8:8), Immanuel Himself being the Governor (Isa. 9:6, 7), and "the zeal of the LORD of hosts" its security.

In 2Sam. 7 the throne was secured to David and his seed by another unconditional promise, and in due time Messiah came unto His own (John 1:11). This "good news" was first heralded by angels sent specially from heaven; and the exact terms of the proclamation are recorded. The angel of Jehovah spoke from the glory of Jehovah, and said :--

"Behold, I bring you good tidings of great joy, which shall be to all people. For unto you is born this day, in the city of David, a SAVIOUR, which is CHRIST, THE LORD."

Thus the good news concerned a Person, Who would "save His people from their sins" (Matt. 1:21) : the Saviour Whom God had anointed (Messiah), appointed, given, and sent. [At this point see and note the object and subject of Christ's ministry as set forth in Appendix 119.] In the proclamation of this Kingdom the Lord taught in Parables; for there were "mysteries" (i.e. secrets) which concerned the rejection, and consequent postponement and abeyance of the Kingdom, which could not openly be made known, but only in private ("in the house", Matt. 13:36).

It had been foreseen, and therefore foretold, that His People would not receive Him, and would reject Him (Isa. 53, &c) and put Him to death. This would not affect the fulfilment of all the promised glories connected with the Kingdom. See Luke 24:26: "Ought not Christ to have suffered these things, and to enter into His glory?" Cp. Acts 3:18; 17:3. True, Christ had been put to death; but God had sworn to David, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, He would raise up Christ to sit on his throne (Acts 2:30). This was now fulfilled : therefore the proclamation of the Kingdom and the King (for there cannot be the one without the other) was at once formally made by Peter in Acts 3:18-26.

This proclamation was made by Peter and the Twelve in the capital of the Land (according to Matt. 22:1-7), and by Paul throughout the synagogues of the Dispersion, until it was all brought to a crisis in Rome (the capital of the Dispersion). Paul and those who heard the Lord thus "confirmed what at the first began to be spoken by the Lord". They did not go beyond it by altering its terms; and God bare them "witness by signs and wonders, and divers miracles, and spiritual gifts" (Heb. 2:1-4).

In Acts 28 this was brought to a conclusion by a formal rejection on the part of "the chief of the Jews" (Acts 28:17-20), and of these, not a few, but "many" (v. 23); and, after a discussion, which lasted throughout the whole day, the proclamation was finally rejected; and, after the prophecy of Israel's blindness (Isa. 6:9, 10) had been quoted for the third and last time (*1), the dispensation of the proclamation of "the Gospel (or good news) of the Kingdom" ceased, and is now, therefore, in abeyance, for "NOW, we see NOT YET all things put under Him" (Heb. 2:8).

All these "mysteries" (or secrets) concerning the postponement and abeyance of the Kingdom were spoken "in parables", "because (the LORD said), it is given unto you (unto the disciples) to know the secrets of the kingdom of heaven, but to them (to the People) it is not given" (Matt. 13:11); going on to explain His action by quoting (for the first time) the prophecy of Israel's blindness (Isa. 6:9, 10) (*1).

There was nothing in Old Testament prophecy that told of what the Lord reveals in these Parables of the Kingdom : how it would be rejected, and to what lengths the People would go in the rejection of the King; what would happen in consequence; how a second offer would be proclaimed, and how that too would be rejected : and what new revelation would be made in consequence.

All this was hidden in the parables spoken by the Lord, yet revealed to the disciples, and written for our learning (Matt. 13:16, 36, 51, 52. Luke 24:26, 27, 44-46. Acts 1:3, 6, 7). Any interpretation which proceeds on other lines can only end in a blindness equal to that which fell on the Jewish nation. This interpretation will in no wise detract from, or lessen, the value of such application as we may make for ourselves, so long as such application does not ignore the definite revelation made subsequently in the Prison Epistles in fulfilment of the Lord's promise in John 16:12-15.

The following parables set forth the proclamation of the Gospel of the Kingdom, from various points of view :--

THE PARABLE OF THE SOWER (Matt. 13:3-32).
This, the first parable, covers the whole ground. The "seed "was" the word of (or concerning) the Kingdom". When repeated later (Luke 8:5-15), the sphere is extended and widened, and is less local and exclusive. This is by way of application.

The First Sowing was "by" the wayside. This must have been the proclamation by John the Baptist (Matt. 3. Mark 1:1-8. Luke 3:1-18. John 1:6-36). This was "by the wayside", and the opposition of the evil one is shown in the birds of evil omen (as in the case of the mustard tree, vv. 31, 32). Hence the seed was "devoured" and the word was "not understood" (vv. 4, 19).

The Second Sowing was by Christ Himself (Matt. 4:17), and Twelve (Matt. 10:7), and the Seventy (Luke 10:1-20). This sowing was on the stony ground, and was received "with joy" (Matt. 13:20; see Mark 6:20, and 12:37. Luke 4:22). This was unfruitful (Mark 4:16, 17).

The Third Sowing was by Peter and the Twelve, and "by them that heard Him" (the Son, Heb. 2:3) during the Dispensation of the Acts. It was "among the thorns". Peter proclaimed the Kingdom (Acts 3:18-26), and repeated the call to national repentance, which was the one abiding condition of national blessing. But the seed was choked. The "thousand of jews" who at first "received the word", continued "all zealous of the law" (Acts 21:20. Gal. 3:1-5, 10-13; 4:9; 5:1-4). This sowing came to a crisis in Acts 28, when the Kingdom was rejected, and has since been in abeyance. See Ap. 112, 113, and 114.

The Fourth Sowing is in the future. It will be the final proclamation of "the Gospel of the Kingdom", immediately preceding and during the Tribulation (Matt. 24:14). Blindness has "happened to Israel", but it is only "in part" (Rom. 11:25). The "how long" of Isa. 6:11 will ere long be seen. This sowing will be of short duration only, as were the other three, and numbered by "days" (Dan. 12:13. Matt. 24:22. Luke 17:26). There will be a special manifestation of the presence and power of the Lord (Matt. 28:20), at the end (sunteleia) of this age; and when this sowing is over, the end (telos) will come (Matt. 24:13, 14), concerning which the disciples had enquired in v. 3.

THE PARABLE OF THE MARRIAGE FEAST. (Matt. 22:1-14).
The servants first sent forth were John the Baptist, the Twelve, and the Seventy, and there were sent to those who had been previously bidden. But "they would not come". The "other servants" who were next sent were Peter, the Twelve, and "them that heard Him" (Heb. 2:3, 4) during the dispensation of the Acts, as foreshown in v. 4. They proclaimed that "all things were ready". Nothing now was wanting. The "sufferings" had been fulfilled and the glory was ready to be revealed (Luke 24:26, 46. Acts 3:18. 1Pet. 1:5). Therefore, "Repent ye", &c. (Acts 2:38, 39; 3:19).

But instead of repenting they "took His servants, and entreated them spitefully, and slew them" (Matt. 22:5, 6). Some they imprisoned (Acts 4:3; 5:18; 8:3; 9:1, 13, 21); one they stoned (Acts 7:59); another they "killed with the sword" (Acts 12:2). This shows that that dispensation could not have ended with the stoning of Stephen in Acts 7, for James was slain after that; and other persecutions were continued up to the end (Acts 28:17).

"But the King was wroth, and sent His armies, and destroyed those murderers, and burned up their city" (Matt. 22:7). The Temple was burned, and the nation dispersed. The last servants sent will go "into the highways" of the world. Here we have, again, a reference to the yet future proclamation of "the Gospel of the Kingdom". Now, this marriage-feast is postponed; and all invitations to it are in abeyance. Its future fulfilment is yet to take place. This is referred to in Matt. 24:14, and is proved by Rev. 19:6-9, where we have the same word in v. 9 as in Matt. 22:2.

"THE GREAT SUPPER" (Luke 14:15-24).
This was spoken in immediate connection with the blessedness of eating bread in the Kingdom of God. Again we have the Four Ministries, as in the above parables. The supper was made by "a certain man", and many were bidden. This bidding was the ministry of John the Baptist. It is set forth as a simple statement of a past and accomplished fact. This was the First Ministry (v. 16).

The Second Invitation was sent to those who had been already bidden by John. It was sent by "His Servant", Who was none other than the Lord Jesus Himself. His Ministry is expressed in one sentence : "Come; for all things are now ready" (v. 17). he was sent "at supper time", according to Eastern custom. But they all with one consent began to make excuse (vv. 18-20).

The Third Invitation was sent, not to those who had been already bidden, but to another class altogether. It was sent by "The Master of the House", Who has perfect right and authority to invite whom He will. He sent "quickly" : i.e. very soon after the return of the second servant; and "into the streets and lanes of the city". This was the ministry of Peter, the Twelve, and Paul.

The Fourth Invitation is yet future, as shown above in the other parables. It will be sent forth by "the Lord" (v. 23), by Him Who has all power in heaven and earth (Matt. 28:18-20). This will be a ministry of compulsion, carried out in the "highways and hedges" of the wide world; and it will be effectual like the last in the preceding cases. All, in turn, receive the call, but it is the last who "hear and understand" (Matt. 13:23); who "hear and receive" (Mark 4:20); who "hear and keep" (Luke 8:15); and who "bring forth fruit". For this, special wisdom and understanding is needed, as foretold in Dan. 11:33; 12:3, 10.

Thus the present dispensation (since the destruction of Jerusalem and dispersion of Israel, which took place shortly after Acts 28, has nothing to do with the Kingdom, and the proclamation of the good news connected with it is postponed and in abeyance. Meanwhile, and during this dispensation, we have :--

"THE GOSPEL (or GOOD NEWS) OF GOD".
This is the Gospel unto which Paul the Apostle was separated (Rom. 1:1), and is supplementary to "the Gospel of the Kingdom", of which it was another aspect. "The Gospel of the Kingdom" was first proclaimed by John the Baptist and the Lord. But both were rejected and put to death. The Lord, however, was raised from the dead and the Gospel of God has to do with a risen Messiah. It characterizes the ministry of the Acts rather than that of the Gospels; especially Paul's share in it. The Gospel of a risen Messiah, re-proclaimed as about to come and restore all things, was the burden of the apostolic proclamation during the dispensation of the Acts. See Acts 2:23-36; 3:12-18; 4:2, 10-12.

"With great power gave the Apostles witness of the resurrection of the Lord Jesus; and great grace was upon them all" (4:33). Also 5:29-32; 10:34-43; 13:23-29.

This too, was the burden of Paul's proclamation, as we may see from Acts 17:1-3, 7. He proclaimed "Jesus, and the resurrection" (vv. 18, 31, 32). True, it was the proclamation of the Kingdom, and, in its wider aspect, "the kingdom of God" (14:22; 19:8); because it was He Who had raised Christ from the dead, and the proclamation was being sent out by God Himself. It was His own special good news. It was of His own motion and will. And it was all of grace. If "His own" would even now receive Messiah, He would "send Jesus Christ" (Acts 3:20). In spite of all their sins, and their heinous crime in murdering His beloved Son, He would blot out all their sins and fulfill all His promises. Truly, this was in very deed :--

"THE GOSPEL (or GOOD NEWS) OF THE GRACE OF GOD".
This is why, in the canonical order of the books of the New Testament, God's overruling is seen in the fact that the first writing which comes to us following on the double rejection of His Son (in the Gospels and the Acts) is the word and good news of His grace in Rom. 1:1. In spite of all that we should consider the unpardonable nature of Israel's crime, the first written words which meet our eyes are these :--

"Paul, a servant of Jesus Christ, a called Apostle (or, an Apostle by Divine calling), separated to God's Gospel (or glad tidings), which He before promised by means of His prophets in sacred writings concerning His Son, Who came of the seed of David according to the flesh, Who was demonstrated [to be] God's Son, in power, with respect to [His] holy spirit [body, 1Cor. 15:45], by resurrection of the dead --even Jesus Christ our Lord, by Whom we received GRACE -- yea, apostolic grace, with a view to the obedience of faith among all the nations, on behalf of His Name (or for His glory), among whom yourselves also are [the] called of Jesus Christ" (Rom. 1:1-6).

Here we have the sum and the substance of the good news of the grace of God. It was not new. It was promised before and written down by His prophets. The sufferings, death and resurrection and glory, were all foretold. But now "those things, which God before had showed by the mouth of all His prophets that Christ should suffer, He hath so fulfilled. THEREFORE, Repent ye, and turn again that your sins may be blotted out, so that [haply] may come seasons of refreshing from the presence (or face) of the Lord, and [that] He may send Him Who was before proclaimed (or according to all the critical texts, "was foreordained") for you -- even Jesus Christ" (Acts 3:18-20).

Thus "God's Gospel" was based on the prophecies of the Old Testament, and was the logical development of them. It is in this that it is distinguished from that which had not been before revealed by the prophets in the concluding verses of Romans. That epistle begins with what had been written in the Scriptures; it ends with what had never been written till "now", when the SECRET which had been kept in silence from times eternal, or during [the] times of [the] ages was then at length made manifest (Rom. 16:25, 26. Eph. 3:1-12. Col. 1:26-28). (See Ap. 192).

The time had come fro this secret to be revealed, and to be committed to prophetic writings. This revelation is contained in the three Epistles written by Paul from his prison in Rome, to the Ephesians, Phillippians, and Colossians. Thus "the Gospel of the Kingdom" was the proclamation by and concerning the Messiah made by John the Baptist and Himself, and is the subject of the Four Gospels.

Thus "the Gospel of the Kingdom" is the proclamation concerning the same Messiah, made by the Twelve, the apostle Paul, and "them that heard" the Lord, during the dispensation of the Acts of the Apostles, and is the subject of their testimony and of their writings and the earlier Epistles of Paul. Seeing it was good news sent after the resurrection of Christ, it is all of pure grace and favour, and hence is "the Gospel of the Grace of God".


THE GOSPEL (or GOOD NEWS) OF THE GLORY OF CHRIST (2COR. 4:4).
This is connected with Christ's exaltation as Head over all things to His church, which is His body, which is developed and revealed more fully in the Prison Epistles (Eph. 1:21-23. Phil. 2:9-11. Col. 1:14-19). It not only involves the present glory of Messiah, but includes the final defeat of Satan, the crushing of his head, and the subjugation of all spiritual beings, be they powers, principalities, authorities, dominions, or thrones, &c.

Hence, it is Satan's great aim now, at this present time, to blind the eyes of them that believe not, so that they may not learn of his coming defeat, as foretold in Gen. 3:15, and seen fulfilled in Rev. 20 (see 2Cor. 4:4). Knowing his object, and being "not ignorant of his devices", we know also what should be our own object : viz. the making known this good news which he would seek to hide; and proclaiming "the Gospel of the glory of Christ".
 
Darrell dunn said:
Daniel was not a christian , but John was .

Jesus was the one that called it the church, before there was a church.

And any Jews that are saved will be a part of the church.

God does not have two plans of salvation.

And the churches that are addressed here are the christian church.

John was a Jewish believer.

Any Jews saved in this dispensation are part of the Church.

God has one purpose, to bring glory to Himself.

And the Churches that are addressed are Jewish in nature.

Peace,

JM
 
I wonder if God sees Jews and gentiles?

Paul said in Gal.3;28 AND Col.3:11 that there are neither Greek nor Jew.

Do you say that Paul didn't know, that the churches were Jew or Greek in nature, and not just plain christian.

Sir you are preaching division in the church.

And that sir is just what Paul was writing about in 1Cor.1:10 Now I beseech you brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and there be no divisions among you: but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment.
 
Darrell dunn said:
I wonder if God sees Jews and gentiles?

Paul said in Gal.3;28 AND Col.3:11 that there are neither Greek nor Jew.

Not in this dispensation of Grace.

Do you say that Paul didn't know, that the churches were Jew or Greek in nature, and not just plain christian.

Paul knew from the Lord Himself what to preach, remember Paul said following him was following Christ! He wrote this at least twice (off the top of my head). A plain Christian is any believer today, I think we agree on this. It's you causing divison.

Sir you are preaching division in the church.

Nope. I'm speaking of 'rightly dividing' and 'studying.' If you look again at the op, I never said this was my stance, just that I wanted to discuss it. I'm a dispensationalist, pretrib and premil.

And that sir is just what Paul was writing about in 1Cor.1:10 Now I beseech you brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and there be no divisions among you: but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment.

I agree and what was this 'same thing?' Was it, 'repent for the Kingdom of Heaven is at hand?'

Didn't Paul preach according to the mystery which was revealed?

What's the mystery?

Did anyone else in scripture preach according to this mystery?

Maybe that's why he left Judaism, he was conforming to what was being revealed to Him by Christ Himself.

I don't know, maybe someone else can add.

Doesn't Rom. 16:25 speak of this? What about Eph. 3:5,9 'not made known' and 'hide in God?'

I don't believe anyone else knew this mystery, 1 Cor. 2:7-8.

We know that Peter preached, 'Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you' Acts 3:20. Maybe this was the difference between the Paul of his conversion and the Paul after the mystery was revealed. Did you even read the quote I provide?

______________________________________________________

Back on topic, isn't the 'Lord's Day' a day of vengence and used in the OT to show God was speaking of His wrath? I believe there is 70 ref for this, off the top of my head once again.

Peace,

JM
 
Found this, what do you make of it?

III. The Church not the subject of Old Testament Prophecy

Closely connected with this foregoing point, that the book is Hebrew in character, and intended specially for Hebrews, is another undoubted fact, that the Church of God is not the subject of the Old Testament, either in history, type, or prophecy.

Passages, &c., may be found there and used to illustrate what is subsequently revealed. But this can be done only by way of application, and not by way of teaching or of interpretation.

Because, of the "Mystery" or the secret concerning the Church of God, we are told that it "was kept secret since the world began" (Rom. 16:25). That "in other ages it was not made known unto the sons of men" (Eph. 3:5). That is, "from the beginning of the world, hath been hid in God" (Eph. 3:9). That it "hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to the saints" (Col. 1:26).


All the imagery - the Temple, the Tabernacle, the Ark of the Covenant, the Altar, the Incense, the heads of the twenty-four courses of Priests (the pattern of which David's was a copy, 1 Chron. 28:19, see chap. 25., and compare Heb. 9:23, etc), all this belongs peculiarly to Israel.

Now, when we turn to the Apocalypse, what do we find? The result which to our mind is overwhelming. No less than 285 references to the Old Testament. More than three times as many as Matthew, and nearly three times as many as the Epistle to the Hebrews.

We ask whether this does not give the book of Revelation a very special connection with the Old Testament, and with Israel? It is undoubtedly written about the people of the Old Testament who are the subjects of its history. These will understand it as Gentile Christians can never hope to do.


JM
 
The man dose not know God.

And he was not given this by the Spirit of God.

Yes the OT was primarily for the Jew, and had the Jews received the Lord time would have stopped right after 70 AD.

But knowing they wouldn't, God had planned the church from the beginning, and for people to say that the book of Rev. is for the Jew just dose not know God.

God has given me a good deal of understanding of the book and I am a gentile.
 
Paul Is Writing About Things "Hidden In God"

Hi JM:

Your work in the Opening Post of this thread was copied from C.R. Stam’s work on this webpage: ( http://www.bereanbiblesociety.org/artic ... 61050.html ). Your pasting job this time does not include the deceiving “Quote:†addendum on the top.

This from the bottom of your posts (The Biblicist Hebrew For Christians Conservative Theological Society ) leads others to believe this is your own work. Please provide the links to your sources in the future, so that we can recognize the author and read the entire work to gather the true context.

Stam says >> *By the time John wrote the Apocalypse, the blessing of God had completely departed from Israel.

Much of Stam’s work for the Berean Bible Society is very good and many of his books are on my shelves with those of Larkin and other professing ‘Dispensationalists.’ Stam’s flaw was to include many components of kingdom doctrine (like the Lord’s Supper) for the ‘bride’ (John 3:29) into grace doctrine for the members of the ‘body of Christ’ (Ephesians 4:12). I see no way to agree with Stam that the blessing of God had ‘completely’ departed from Israel, because ‘all Israel will be saved’ (Romans 11:26-29) and “the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable.†Romans 11:29. Therefore, God has placed the “Kingdom Dispensation†on the back burner, while He is gathering the Gentile (Acts 15:14) dominant ‘His body’ Church (Colossians 1:24) during this current “dispensation of God’s grace†(Ephesians 3:2). If the blessing of God had completely departed from Israel, then they would not even exist as a nation today.

Stam >> *The Temple and Jerusalem had already been destroyed by Titus and the sacrificial system lay in ruin. Both Paul and Peter have suffered martyrdom, and the majority of those saved at Pentecost under the kingdom gospel are now with the Lord.

That is an easy statement to make when you consider that Pentecost took place in about 30 AD and John is writing Revelation between 90 and 100 AD. If they were adult men (20+) at Pentecost, then they would have to be around 90 years old at the writing of Revelation.

Stam >> *This raises the question: To whom was John writing? While the Church, the Body of Christ is the means through which God was channeling His blessing at the time, we know John was directed by the Spirit to confine his ministry to the circumcision (Israel) (Gal. 2:9).

We agree. Again, much of Stam’s work is very good (“Things That Differ†is excellent). He recognizes the kingdom dispensation under Peter (kingdom church = Matthew 16:16-19, Matthew 18:17-18) and separates that from Paul’s “dispensation of God’s grace†(Ephesians 3:2) sent to the Gentiles to make Israel jealous (Romans 10:19, Romans 11:11, etc.). John is actually writing to the ‘end of the age’ kingdom disciples and the ‘late rains’ (James 5:7) kingdom bride under the stewardship of Elijah living through the 1000 Years “Day of the Lord.†That is why you see him standing inside the “Lord’s Day†(Revelation 1:10) to BEGIN the Book of Revelation. Paul says that our mystery church is gathered, when that Day of the Lord “Times and Epochs†(1 Thessalonians 5:1-2, Acts 1:6-7) Period COMES (2 Thessalonians 2:2). That means our mystery gathering (1 Thessalonians 4:17) STARTS the 1000 Years “Day of the Lord†and Christ’s Matthew 24 events END the same 1000 Years Period. John is describing the entire 1000 Years from Revelation 1 to Revelation 20:7 and our mystery ‘trumpet’ (1 Corinthians 15:52, 1 Thessalonians 4:16) sounds off “BEHIND†John in Revelation 1:10. That is why Christ has His brand new ‘body of Christ’ (Ephesians 4:12) right here in Revelation 1:10-18, because ‘we’ are already caught up TO Him. The ‘churches’ of Revelation 1 – Revelation 3 are the kingdom churches of the 1000 Years “Lord’s Day†(Day of the Lord) itself called into existence under the “gospel of the kingdom†(Matthew 24:14) going to the whole world in THAT day.

Stam >> *Those who may have reservations about John addressing future Israel should remember that the same is true of many Old Testament prophecies regarding the coming Tribulation. In fact, nearly half of the Book of Daniel falls into this very category. So then, the seven churches to whom John is writing are seven future Jewish assemblies located in Asia Minor (Rev. 1:11).

We agree. However, those seven churches are types of seven church periods running throughout the sowing AND reaping shown throughout Revelation 1-3 AND in the seven parables of Matthew 13. The diagram looks like this:

78.jpg


Those seven churches of Revelation are indeed physical churches located on the earth 2000 years ago, just like the churches of the Romans, Corinthians, Galatians, etc. from the Pauline Epistles. However, Paul is addressing the members of Christ’s BODY in the world today in the same way that John is addressing the “late rains†(James 5:7) kingdom ‘bride’ (John 3:29) gathered throughout this 1000 Years “Day of the Lord†under Elijah. Many fail to realize that Elijah MUST come first (Matthew 17:10) and restore ALL THINGS (Matthew 17:11), which includes the Kingdom to Israel (Acts 1:6-7) and the ‘tabernacle of David’ (Acts 15:16-18) throughout this prophetic time that “all Israel†is saved (Romans 11:26-29). The diagram showing how those things are fulfilled looks like this:

67.jpg


Daniel is standing in the OT (Holy of Holies) section of Scripture looking forward into the coming “1000 Year Day of the Lord†perfectly. However, he sees NOTHING inside this “2000 Year Mystery Time†we are living through today. Find “Today†on the timeline and that represents our location on the timeline leading up to the “Day of the Lord†coming (2 Thessalonians 2:2). The biggest error of most Bible commentators is they fail to make the connection to this “Times and Epochs†of the “Day of the Lord†(1 Thessalonians 5:1-2) AND the restoration of the kingdom to Israel (Acts 1:6-7) prophesied by Christ (this is a vast understatement; read this sentence a few times). That kingdom MUST be restored to Israel, BEFORE the antichrist can come and use the same restored Temple of God (2 Thessalonians 2:3-4) to set up his “abomination of desolation†(Matthew 24:15, Daniel 12:11-13) just prior to the ‘end of the age’ (Daniel 12:13, Matthew 24:3 +). Most Bible commentators FAIL to realize that Satan is bound in the pit (Revelation 20:2) to START the “Lord’s Day†right here in Revelation 1:10, as that sound of the trumpet behind him included the ‘voice of the archangel’ (1 Thessalonians 4:16) coming to chain him with all the members of his evil body. That is what allows Elijah to come and restore all things in the first place, as the members of “Christ’s body†(that’s us = 1 Corinthians 12:27) have been judged for our works (2 Corinthians 5:10) and are prepared to occupy the seats in the ‘heavenly places’ (Ephesians 2:6) now vacated by those same chained evil rulers of darkness.

Our active participation from “IN†the Lamb Himself is what makes that restored kingdom to Israel glorious beyond our current ability to fathom. However, Satan and his cronies are released to incarnate upon this earth as men throughout the 1000 Years and grow like the woman’s loaf of the diagram above. By the very end of the 1000 Years, Satan himself has been released to be numbered with the men on earth among his cronies; which allows him to prepare the way for his “son of destruction†coming to the Temple and fool everyone into believing he is God Himself. Christ’s single prophetic return (Matthew 24:30) puts an end to all of that destruction and desolation going on through the ministries of Satan (spirit), his Beast (blood) and the False Prophet (water), which finds them all in the lake of fire (Revelation 19:20, Revelation 20:10), before the start of the new age in Revelation 21:1 +.

Stam >> *As a Hebrew addressing Hebrews, John identifies himself with his kinsman after the flesh. He was their brother and companion in troublous times. If we consult the original here we learn that the definite article precedes the noun, tribulation; consequently, John was their companion during "the" seven-year Tribulation and the Millennium that followed.

We most certainly agree. All of the Epistles of Hebrews – Revelation are addressed to Israel, the Jewish Priesthood (1 Peter 2:9) and the twelve tribes dispersed abroad (James 1:1) who NEVER address “Gentiles†in the first person. Paul is the steward of this “dispensation of God’s grace†(Ephesians 3:2) and he alone addresses the members of “Christ’s body†obedient to his “word of the cross†(1 Corinthians 1:18) gospel message. Peter and the kingdom ‘bride’ were all saved by obedience to the ‘gospel of the kingdom’ (Matthew 4:23, Matthew 24:14, Acts 8:12, etc.) to become part of the prophetic kingdom dispensation of God on this earth.

Stam >> *These are the things "which must shortly come to pass" spoken of in verse 1. The reference is to those who will be living at that day. This is confirmed for us by the apostle's next statement: "I was in the Spirit on the Lord's day." Tradition teaches that the Lord's day is Sunday, which is the day Christians worship. However, this is foreign to the Scriptures.

Stam is 100 Percent Correct. The common error of Bible commentators today is to force the “Lord’s Day†into being one particular Sunday of the week, which is ridiculous. The events of Revelation 1 – Revelation 20 are the same events connected to the “Day of the Lord†from the Old and New Testaments. John is describing the very beginning of the “Day of the Lord†in Revelation 1 and the very end in Revelation 16, 19 and 20. The difficult part for many to follow is that the entire 1000 Years is compressed into the first three chapters and those seven church periods. John ascending up in Revelation 4:1 starts the ‘great and glorious’ Judgment part connected with the “short time†(Revelation 20:7) of Satan’s release and the ‘Great Tribulation’ (Matthew 24:21, Revelation 7:14) that follows leading into the Judgment (Revelation 20:10-15).

The key is to recognize the ‘day of the Lord’ as being the 1000 Years that Peter says in 2 Peter 3:8-10, which is the same 1000 years of Revelation 20 that Satan is in the pit. The Great Tribulation is at the END OF THE AGE (Matthew 24:3 +) and NOT at the beginning of the same 1000 Years that Paul’s ‘body’ is taken (1 Thessalonians 4:17). Paul tells ‘us’ to live a ‘quiet life’ (1 Thessalonians 4:11) leading up to describing our mystery gathering totally apart from any mention of any wars, famines and earthquakes taking place 1000 Years LATER (Matthew 24) at the END of that same 1000 years period. If you will think about this carefully, then all the bad things take place when Satan is released at the ‘end’ of the 1000 years and NOT when he is chained to start (Revelation 1:10) that period.

Thank you for starting this topic. Next time please divulge your third party sources to give them credit and provide the links to that information, so we can gather the true context of what you pasted.

In Christ Jesus,

Terral
 
Please Post Your Third Party Authors And Links (Rule 11)

Hi JM:

JM >> Nahhhhh....I like to watch you freak out so to speak.

That is all you can muster? Asking you politely to please conform to Rule 11 is not freaking out. Have you no reply to anything presented to Stam’s comments above? I would like to quote you and defend my positions, but you have no case against anything presented above. These little baby posts seem to be your forte around here and asking for a paragraph or two of commentary on any Bible topic appears completely out of the question. Okie. Then please allow me to thank you for not quoting me and for allowing everything posted above to remain standing. GL,

In Christ Jesus,

Terral
 
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