Revelation 3

[th1b.taylor]

1 And unto the angel of the church in Sardis write; These things saith he that hath the seven Spirits of God, and the seven stars; I know thy works, that thou hast a name that thou livest, and art dead. 2 Be watchful, and strengthen the things which remain, that are ready to die: for I have not found thy works perfect before God. 3 Remember therefore how thou hast received and heard, and hold fast, and repent. If therefore thou shalt not watch, I will come on thee as a thief, and thou shalt not know what hour I will come upon thee.


It is increasingly important that we keep our minds refreshed with the Word of God, not just the Revelation, but the entire Bible. As we look into this chapter, it will do most a god turn to review the letters in chapter 2. These letters are addressed and speak to seven Church Families in Asia but as they are read today a man walking with God should also, immediately pick up that these also apply to the church today for a Guide Line for our walk with the Christ. These have been described by some as representing the Church Age Periods from the first century until now. I do not teach that but the Church Universal is mighty like the last in this string of letters. The third verse is very solid advise for any Christian, at any point since our Chris left on the cloud.


4 Thou hast a few names even in Sardis which have not defiled their garments; and they shall walk with me in white: for they are worthy. 5 He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels. 6 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.


In class today we around and around with a gentleman about what I am about to say here and he is the only one in the class that never got it, that left me and all the others praying for him, it´s serious not to relate to this. In the eyes of God, you, I and every Christian we collectively know were given robes of the purest white, the very moment we were saved and have been dressed in them ever since. Those that remain faithfully serving the Master will have less stains on our garmets than the Carnal Christian. Some, better than 95% or the North American Church Family never have had a spiritual robe on, if the Barna Church Survey of the mid-eighties is correct. That makes the inside of our own churches a mission field white unto harvest.


7 And to the angel of the church in Philadelphia write; These things saith he that is holy, he that is true, he that hath the key of David, he that openeth, and no man shutteth; and shutteth, and no man openeth; 8 I know thy works: behold, I have set before thee an open door, and no man can shut it: for thou hast a little strength, and hast kept my word, and hast not denied my name.


We find here that we can hide nothing from our God. We also see that he or she that is faithful and true to the Word of God has the door into Heaven opened to them. This scripture flies straight in the face of much of the errant theology being taught in the ear tickling churches today. This promise is conditional, they kept His Word and had not denied His name.


9 Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee. 10 Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth. 11 Behold, I come quickly: hold that fast which thou hast, that no man take thy crown.


With this passage I have always found that the Human Earth Worms always wiggle the worst! It is the Jew that is called out here and a study, completed by myself, over fifteen years ago illustrates why the Christians are not, seemly, included. When the First Century Church sprung up we were recognized as a Jewish Sect. Like it or not, we are still that sect from the Jewish Faith! As a Christian today, you are included in this warning. These conditions spelled out here were once, withing my life time, taught in the churches. It is a mark of just how far we have fallen.


12 Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name. 13 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.


You see here that Jesus is stressing the conditions and the reward. I admit it, I am sick of seeing people, mistakenly, through ignorance of the truth and sometimes intentionally lying to people to fill their buildings. Just knowing Jesus has and will never save a single person. You cannot work or earn your way into Heaven but neither is it unconditional. You must learn to never qustion and to always obey.


14 And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write; These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God; 15 I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot. 16 So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth.


There is no possible worse pronouncement than this and because I do believe we are very close to Jesus on the cloud, it is not only my contention that we are in the Laodicean Church Age but that all these charges are cumlative and the Church, in general, is guilty and guilty of all of it! Better than 85% of the people in your Church Family are not doing a single thing for the cause of Christ and better than 95% do not believe He will Rapture them out. Without faith there is nothing, read your Bible just like the book it is.


17 Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked:

The United States Of America is in such a dangerous position today! The man living under the Freeway Bridge is among the top 10% of the wealthiest people in the world. We have so much material wealth that we have no Spiritual eyes to see our poor and wretched position! Some of you are so blind that these words will enrage you and you´ll never do a Spiritual Inventory.


18 I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be rich; and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed, and that the shame of thy nakedness do not appear; and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see. 19 As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent.


Does God see you dressed white, Spiritual White?


20 Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me. 21 To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne. 22 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.


Is Jesus your Master? Do you obey Him?

 

[Acebopata]

I have to agree with you. It seems like today so many Christains and T.V. ministries are so focused on rejocing and singing that you can't hardly find anything else about the Bible, and that's going to cost so many people rewards in heaven, and perhaps even souls who would have actually come onto Christ if they saw what the word of the lord really said instead of seeing all these bands and insprational speakers who don't say anything about having to senscerly confess the Savor as Lord and try to live a Christain life.

There is so much more to being a christain then just confessing the lord as savor. yes, that indead is all a person has to do to become saved, but then that person needs to work as hard as he or she can tp help spread the lords message, and try to live as holy as they can, trusting in the lord to give them the strengh to do so, and reliying on the lords forivness and grace when they fall.

And I also beleave that the lord shall return for his church soon. Even as we type, I am preparing for that day of glory when the Dead in Christ shall rise forst and we who are alive and remain shall be caught up after to meet with the lord, and forever shall we be with the lord. Personallly, Pretrib or post trib, I understand the importance to being ready and watching for his comming.

 

[th1b.taylor]

I have to agree with you. It seems like today so many Christains and T.V. ministries are so focused on rejocing and singing that you can't hardly find anything else about the Bible, and that's going to cost so many people rewards in heaven, and perhaps even souls who would have actually come onto Christ if they saw what the word of the lord really said instead of seeing all these bands and insprational speakers who don't say anything about having to senscerly confess the Savor as Lord and try to live a Christain life.

There is so much more to being a christain then just confessing the lord as savor. yes, that indead is all a person has to do to become saved, but then that person needs to work as hard as he or she can tp help spread the lords message, and try to live as holy as they can, trusting in the lord to give them the strengh to do so, and reliying on the lords forivness and grace when they fall.

And I also beleave that the lord shall return for his church soon. Even as we type, I am preparing for that day of glory when the Dead in Christ shall rise forst and we who are alive and remain shall be caught up after to meet with the lord, and forever shall we be with the lord. Personallly, Pretrib or post trib, I understand the importance to being ready and watching for his comming.

Good words neighbor. So many have sold themselves short because of all this nonsense and the lack of sincere service. One gentleman, on another forum, calling himself Christian told me that he did not owe God one single thing, he was saved by grace and he alluded to the idea that God owed that to him.

 

[Acebopata]

Good words neighbor. So many have sold themselves short because of all this nonsense and the lack of sincere service. One gentleman, on another forum, calling himself Christian told me that he did not owe God one single thing, he was saved by grace and he alluded to the idea that God owed that to him.

So many times people think God owes them something when they really don't apprecate that God is God. He dosen't owe anybody unless God himself promises that he will give it to him or her. And God is always good on his promisies.

We as Christains, should always be doing what we can to help our fellow brotheren in Christ, and we must always try to purify our life form sin where ever we find it. It can be difficult at times, but if a person trust in the Lord, and holds out untill the Lord anwsers, a person will always find the strengh to carry on and better themselves in their Christain walk.

 

[Stormcrow]

...but as they are read today a man walking with God should also, immediately pick up that these also apply to the church today...

{14} ~'But I have a few things against you, because you have there some who hold the teaching of Balaam, who kept teaching Balak to put a stumbling block before the sons of Israel, to eat things sacrificed to idols and to commit acts of immorality. Revelation 2:14 (NASB)

I must ask, based on what you wrote above, if you personally know of any churches today that hold to the teaching of Balak and eat things offered to idols for the purpose of causing Jews to stumble.

And since we're in Revelation 3, now, please reconcile this passage with your futurist view:

{10} ~'Because you have kept the word of My perseverance, I also will keep you from the hour of testing, that hour which is about to come upon the whole world, to test those who dwell on the earth. {11} ~'I am coming quickly; hold fast what you have, so that no one will take your crown. Revelation 3:10-11 (NASB)

Why would the risen, ascended, and glorified Christ tell John to write something to the church at Philadelphia that He must've known wasn't going to happen for at least 2,000 years?

Thanks for any clarification you can offer in this regard.

 

[Acebopata]

{14} ~'But I have a few things against you, because you have there some who hold the teaching of Balaam, who kept teaching Balak to put a stumbling block before the sons of Israel, to eat things sacrificed to idols and to commit acts of immorality. Revelation 2:14 (NASB)

I must ask, based on what you wrote above, if you personally know of any churches today that hold to the teaching of Balak and eat things offered to idols for the purpose of causing Jews to stumble.

And since we're in Revelation 3, now, please reconcile this passage with your futurist view:

{10} ~'Because you have kept the word of My perseverance, I also will keep you from the hour of testing, that hour which is about to come upon the whole world, to test those who dwell on the earth. {11} ~'I am coming quickly; hold fast what you have, so that no one will take your crown. Revelation 3:10-11 (NASB)

Why would the risen, ascended, and glorified Christ tell John to write something to the church at Philadelphia that He must've known wasn't going to happen for at least 2,000 years?

Thanks for any clarification you can offer in this regard.

It is true that John was taken up to heven, and he did see these thinks mentuened. However there are three things to remember.

1. While Jonh may have seen these events, he probably did not know how long it would take them to occur, other than the seven years mentuened. For all he know, it could have happened 50, 100, 300 years from the time re receaved the prophacy. And he did not know how long it would take the churches mentuened in the letters to repent, and turn away from their faults. Sometimes, it can take years, or even decades for a group of people to adjust, or to re adjust to a changed, even if they are going back to a previous state.

2. We are not susposed to know the exact hour of the lords return, nor are we suspost to be able to perdict when it will occur. If john would have said, "Oh, and by the way, this won't happen for 2,000, then the gosaple would have died out. Aslo, If jonh know ot wasn't susposed to happen for 2,000 years, It would violate the prophacy, for no one can know the day or the hour. And if John know about how long it would take for the end times to arive, it would have dis-valodated Jesus clames of no one but the father knowing the exact time.

3. Because John warned the churches in the letters about what they needed to do, this allowed the churches of today to have an exsample of bad and good relfections, and adjust themselves accordingly.

 

[Stormcrow]

While Jonh may have seen these events, he probably did not know how long it would take them to occur

Jesus did.

{1} The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave Him to show to His bond-servants, the things which must soon take place; and He sent and communicated it by His angel to His bond-servant John, Revelation 1:1 (NASB)

John merely wrote what he was shown and told by the angel. It doesn't matter what John may or may not have believed about these things. The question is, did God communicate them to him or not?

If not, why would John write that He did?

If so, what part of "soon" do you understand that God doesn't?

We are not susposed to know the exact hour of the lords return, nor are we suspost to be able to perdict when it will occur.

That doesn't address any of the questions raised.

Again, why would Christ tell John to write to the church at Philadelphia that the hour of testing was about to come upon the whole world if that's not what He meant?

Do the words "about to come" mean something different to you than they do to Him?

If so, why write them to that church at all since they weren't really for them?

If not, why try to make such simple language fit into such a twisted, convoluted doctrine?

Because John warned the churches in the letters about what they needed to do, this allowed the churches of today to have an exsample of bad and good relfections, and adjust themselves accordingly.

Again, please provide an example - even just one - of a church that adheres to the teachings of Balak and eats meat offered to idols causing its Jewish members to stumble.

Name one church today that can apply the example of Pergamum regarding the eating of meat offered to idols causing offense to its Jewish members. Just one will do. Just one is all I ask.

Thanks.

 

[Acebopata]

The lord has comanded that we do not worship and statue, or graven immage. And many time, Christains around the world has prayed to a statue to the virgen marry. This is a direct violation of the lords commandment of not warching statues, and it also violates the first commandmant of, "Though shalt have no other gods before me."

In addition, many Christains today actually worship deamons, and claim to be christain. These people often erect spells, and satain is more than willing to obey these spells, providing they 1, convence the person casting them that they don't need jesus, and 2. Satain can cause the spell to funtion, at least for a short time.

And there are many teachings today that cause people to stumble. And many of them are just like the teachings you mentuened, except they are for diffrent activitys, like reading, and watching movies and playing video games.

So it's imperative that we understand that the teachings of Balak are still going on today, they are just done through diffrent medioums.

Take harry potter, for exsample. Many schools, Both christain and secular are requiring the reading of harry potter. Now this might not be a problem for us older adults, but remembor that little children are easlly tricked into beleiving that there is more to this harry potter than there really is.

And there was even a reported concert in a church where some of the kids sang Lady Gaga songs. Again, for us who are older, we can see through these lyrics and tell how much of it is real, and how much of it is not. But our children are not able to discern such deceptions, and if those songs had any stumbling messages in them, those children would have cought onto them pronto.

While Balak taught the people to put a stubling block with eating food sacroficed to idols, today's culture is tring ti get us to put stubling blocks in our childrens way. Remembor, Lada Gaga and the author of Harry potter isn't the problem, it's the matereil they teach and the way we constantly expose our children to them that makes the event so simular to the teachings of Balak.

 

[Stormcrow]

The lord has comanded that we do not worship and statue, or graven immage. And many time, Christains around the world has prayed to a statue to the virgen marry. This is a direct violation of the lords commandment of not warching statues, and it also violates the first commandmant of, "Though shalt have no other gods before me."

And how many Catholics make a practice of slaughtering animals to statues of the Virgin Mary then eating the meat of them?

And how many Orthodox Jews are Roman Catholics today that would be offended by such a practice???

In addition, many Christains today actually worship deamons, and claim to be christain. These people often erect spells, and satain is more than willing to obey these spells, providing they 1, convence the person casting them that they don't need jesus, and 2. Satain can cause the spell to funtion, at least for a short time.

And you have proof for this claim, too, of course.

So it's imperative that we understand that the teachings of Balak are still going on today, they are just done through diffrent medioums.

Might pay to read up on the story of Balak and Balaam in the OT.

But more importantly, the answers to the questions I've asked are really simple if you know what the letters to the churches are all about.

 

[Acebopata]

Johns letters to the seven churches where desinged to assist the seven churches to turn from their worng-doings, and they are also good for telling the modern churches what they need to do to be pleasing to the lord.

While today's world is diffrent from the world in John's day, we see many of the same problmems in the chruch today. That means that the letters are still relevent, and are noteworthy study.

As for the reason John mentuened the judements occuring? There are two reasons.

1. He did not know for sure when these things would happen, or how long it would take for the churches to reform.

2. He knew that these problems would reoccur in future chruches, and that one day a church will either need to repent, or face the jugdement.

If john did know that it would take 2000 years for the events to occur, he probably would have put the jugdements in the letters for future generations.

But that's the basic jist of the letters as a whole. Individule, they point to problems that either are exactly the same as the time during the letters where written, or for similor concepts.

 

[Lloyd]

Stormcrow,

Since you are always so keen to stress the fact that Jesus was talking to 'that' generation and spoke only of events that would happen within their time frame, please read the below scriptures and let me know your thoughts:

From Matthew 5 to Matthew 8

Do his words apply to 'that' generation or are they still relevant today?

Once you have answered that, we can continue.


Lloyd

 

[th1b.taylor]

Stormcrow,

Since you are always so keen to stress the fact that Jesus was talking to 'that' generation and spoke only of events that would happen within their time frame, please read the below scriptures and let me know your thoughts:

From Matthew 5 to Matthew 8

Do his words apply to 'that' generation or are they still relevant today?

Once you have answered that, we can continue.


Lloyd

Hello Lloyd,
The seed of Satan has plagued the Church throughout it´s history. The cute part is the fact that the Bible is split in two by so many today and they have the New
Testament (They like the term, New Covenant) superseding the Bible Jesus and His Disciples taught from. They do this in spite of Jesus´ own proclamation that not one speck of the Law and the prophets would pass away.

 

[Stormcrow]

Stormcrow,

Since you are always so keen to stress the fact that Jesus was talking to 'that' generation and spoke only of events that would happen within their time frame, please read the below scriptures and let me know your thoughts:

From Matthew 5 to Matthew 8

Do his words apply to 'that' generation or are they still relevant today?

Once you have answered that, we can continue.


Lloyd

First of all, I am only stressing what the Bible itself says about these things. Is there something about the word "soon" in the NT you know that God doesn't?

Second, as I am about to take my daughter to college in the next couple of days and will thus be away from my computer, perhaps you could read those chapters yourself and answer some of your own questions. I really don't have the time or inclination to do Bible study for your sake.

Thanks...I knew you'd understand.

 

[Stormcrow]

Hello Lloyd,
The seed of Satan has plagued the Church throughout it´s history. The cute part is the fact that the Bible is split in two by so many today and they have the New
Testament (They like the term, New Covenant) superseding the Bible Jesus and His Disciples taught from. They do this in spite of Jesus´ own proclamation that not one speck of the Law and the prophets would pass away.

That didn't answer the question I put to you above. Is it that you can't answer my question or that you prefer to avoid it ?

 

[Stormcrow]

While today's world is diffrent from the world in John's day, we see many of the same problmems in the chruch today.

So eating meat offered to idols continues to be a problem in the church today?

The deeds of the Nicolaitans continue to be a problem in the church today? Can you name a single member of the sect of the Nicolaitans today?

False apostleship is a problem in the church today? Can you even name a real apostle in the church today?

Any churches today have any prophetess called "Jezebel" leading people into eating meat sacrificed to idols???

You have yet to address these questions with a single, specific example of these things happening in Christendom today, and repeatedly reply with vague generalities that have NOTHING to do with the text or context of the letters to the churches of Revelation.

The answer is very simple if you're willing to let the Word speak for itself and stop trying to fit it into man-made doctrines and your preconceived ideas of what it all means.

For what it's worth.

 

[Sinthesis]

Hello Lloyd,
The seed of Satan has plagued the Church throughout it´s history. The cute part is the fact that the Bible is split in two by so many today and they have the New
Testament (They like the term, New Covenant) superseding the Bible Jesus and His Disciples taught from. They do this in spite of Jesus´ own proclamation that not one speck of the Law and the prophets would pass away.

Till?

Might it not be that once the Law was fulfilled thorough the passing of heaven and earth, the only things necessarily everlasting would be His words, dominion, and kingdom?

 

[Stormcrow]

The cute part is the fact that the Bible is split in two by so many today and they have the New Testament (They like the term, New Covenant) superseding the Bible Jesus and His Disciples taught from. They do this in spite of Jesus´ own proclamation that not one speck of the Law and the prophets would pass away.

{20} And in the same way He took the cup after they had eaten, saying, "This cup which is poured out for you is the new covenant in My blood. Luke 22:20 (NASB)

{4} Such confidence we have through Christ toward God. {5} Not that we are adequate in ourselves to consider anything as coming from ourselves, but our adequacy is from God, {6} who also made us adequate as servants of a new covenant, not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life. 2 Corinthians 3:4-6 (NASB)

{13} When He [GOD] said, "A new covenant," He [GOD] has made the first obsolete. But whatever is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to disappear. Hebrews 8:13 (NASB)

{24} and to Jesus, the mediator of a new covenant, and to the sprinkled blood, which speaks better than the blood of Abel. Hebrews 12:24 (NASB)

Gee...I wonder where us cute "Satan seeds" ever got the idea that there is a "New covenant?"


Paul has a word for people still stuck in the Law:

{23} But before faith came, we were kept in custody under the law, being shut up to the faith which was later to be revealed. {24} Therefore the Law has become our tutor to lead us to Christ, so that we may be justified by faith. {25} But now that faith has come, we are no longer under a tutor. {26} For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus. {27} For all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ. Galatians 3:23-27 (NASB)

You can keep the Law if you'd like, but don't presume to preach it as gospel. It is not.

Peace. Out.

 

[Lloyd]

First of all, I am only stressing what the Bible itself says about these things. Is there something about the word "soon" in the NT you know that God doesn't?

Second, as I am about to take my daughter to college in the next couple of days and will thus be away from my computer, perhaps you could read those chapters yourself and answer some of your own questions. I really don't have the time or inclination to do Bible study for your sake.

Thanks...I knew you'd understand.

Are you going to answer my question or are you going to avoid it?

It's pretty simple - you have an opinion on everything else, so would appreciate a response to my question.

You are quick to jump all over anyone else to voice what you think is the correct understanding of anything 'end times' related, so I'm keen to discuss all of Jesus' words with you.

 

[Stormcrow]

Are you going to answer my question or are you going to avoid it?

As I'm leaving on a long road trip in less than an hour (as I made clear before), you're simply going to have to wait. I have responsibilities that don't include answering to your beck and call.

It's pretty simple - you have an opinion on everything else, so would appreciate a response to my question.

As do you, apparently. (And - for what it's worth - I don't care what you would appreciate.)

You are quick to jump all over anyone else to voice what you think is the correct understanding of anything 'end times' related, so I'm keen to discuss all of Jesus' words with you.

Discuss or argue? Given your tone, I'm betting the latter. I have more important things to do than argue with you right now. I'll pencil you in for next week some time.

 

[Lloyd]

As I'm leaving on a long road trip in less than an hour (as I made clear before), you're simply going to have to wait. I have responsibilities that don't include answering to your beck and call.



As do you, apparently. (And - for what it's worth - I don't care what you would appreciate.)



Discuss or argue? Given your tone, I'm betting the latter. I have more important things to do than argue with you right now. I'll pencil you in for next week some time.

Well, seeing as though my post count is far less than yours, I would have to say your far more opinionated that me. I'm sure a quick scan through our posts would reveal the true character of each of us?

I certainly don't want to argue with you, although it seems you spend more time arguing on this site than anyone else, and a number of your posts always have symbols such as 2, which imediately show your distain for other peoples words.

If you spent half as much time encouraging, and building people up in the words of Christ as you do slandering and finding faults in peoples posts, you'd draw more people to Christ, but unfortunately, you seem blinded by your constant need to be right and self-proclaimed wisdom.

"As water reflects a face, so a mans heart reflects the man"

For what it's worth....