Salvation theology: E.O. & Latin Catholic

[JM]

What's the difference? :painting:

 

[stray bullet]

The Catholic and Eastern Orthodox were separated after 1000 years of Christianity, so the Traditions and doctrine of salvation were already well established.

There really should be no difference on the doctrine of salvation between east and west because salvation is such an important part of the faith.

 

[Orthodox Christian]

I know that the one who wrote the OP has researched the matter, so I don't respond to it as if it is an actually inquiry. It is, I believe, what is known as a 'rhetorical question,' which is actually a statement, not a question. The statement is "Orthodox and Catholic are the same" when it comes to salvation. This is, I assume, intended as a zinger.

Doesn't look like it's gotten much play, though. :

 

[JM]

I know that the one who wrote the OP has researched the matter, so I don't respond to it as if it is an actually inquiry. It is, I believe, what is known as a 'rhetorical question,' which is actually a statement, not a question. The statement is "Orthodox and Catholic are the same" when it comes to salvation. This is, I assume, intended as a zinger.

Doesn't look like it's gotten much play, though. :

OC is correct...in a way. I was seeking the orthodox view typed by the orthodox to avoid being accused of lying. OC is correct...the EO's and RC's have the same doctrine when it comes to salvation.

Peace.

 

[guibox]

OC is correct...in a way. I was seeking the orthodox view typed by the orthodox to avoid being accused of lying. OC is correct...the EO's and RC's have the same doctrine when it comes to salvation.

Peace.

Then the OC believes in salvation through the sacraments as does the RC?

 

[Orthodox Christian]

Then the OC believes in salvation through the sacraments as does the RC?

I won't answer for the Catholics, and won't be pitted against them like a noob.

I will answer this way: depends on what you mean by salvation.
Ultimately, it is the Father who gives all salvation through the Son, by the means of His Holy Spirit. The Father is the source of all.

That being said, salvation is being poured out through many people and many things. Salvation is a term horribly misunderstood and misused by Reformed Christians. Not that they're wrong in identifying the One who saved us, nor are they wrong when they say IN Christ alone, but they are wrong when they say BY Christ alone. Scripture says "correspondingly, baptism saves you." Now there is not one Orthodox who think that being dunked in a tank will guarantee a spot in heaven for you.

Anyone who wishes to debate this should please do a full study of the words save, saved, and salvation in their Greek renderings. It is in reading the original Greek that the picture emerges of just how many agents and agencies God uses to save us present tense and future.

We are 'being saved.' Praying, reading scripture, doing acts of kindness, being humble are our part in placing ourselves before God to be strengthened (sos/saved) by God's grace (charis). Some say Grace is something we do not 'earn,' or cannot acquire by action. I reply "He gives grace to the humble" and its partner verse "Humble yourself under the mighty Hand of God, and He will lift you up."

So, returning to baptism, it is a grace extended (by it we are 'saved') to those who obey. Likewise, scriptures refer to the healing power of confession (confess your sins one to another and be healed"- healed here is charismed/graced). Also, the Eucharist is a means of grace by which we are saved, in the sense that I spoke of before. Same goes for holy matrimony- our opportunity to live as martyrs.

The Orthodox Chruch recognizes seven holy mysteries, referred to in the West as sacraments- but we acknowledge that, in addition to these seven known mysteries, there are countless unknown mysteries by which God imparts grace to His people. Among them is the worship of God through our voices in song.

So when people say "Orthodox teach that salvation comes through the sacraments," I say yes and amen- with the understanding I have tried, in my limited and insufficient manner- to convey. While I agree with and amen the means to salvation that classic Evangelical theology portrays- salvation through faith in Christ- I see this explanation as incomplete. Our life in Christ begins at Conception, the moment that faith reaches upward to the grace that comes down and seals with Fire. Only He can overshadow us and bring forth this Conception. But what of the rest of the development?

Or, in another metaphor, being 'born' of this Spirit, what then of first steps, and growth, and maturity? Not to mention reproduction...We are being saved.

Reformed theology, in its effort to separate itself from the Pelagian elements it saw in Catholic theology (notice I said "it saw"- not that I am saying that Rome was or is Pelagian), took salvation down to a few abstract principles. The result was akin to an architect's sketch, rather than the full Cathedral with music, candles, lights, smells, and so forth. The result was akin to someone describing romantic love in scientific terms, as opposed to poetry. The result was "see spot run," rather than "April is the cruelest month, breeding Lilacs out of the dead land, mixing memory and desire, stirring Dull roots with spring rain."

Salvation is a Living Being, and salvation is coming to us from all directions. Good thing, because the Enemy of Our Souls is working against it from all sides, also.

If there is a response to this, please let it be a carefully considered response, not a knee-jerk attack on Orthodox theology. Being as I have carefully and respectfully stated our position from my limited understanding, I would expect a reciprocal care.

Thank you
James

 

[stovebolts]

James,

I don't think I've ever heard it spelled out so gracefully. Thank you for taking the time to post.

Jeff

 

[Orthodox Christian]

James,

I don't think I've ever heard it spelled out so gracefully. Thank you for taking the time to post.

Jeff

Thank you Jeff for those encouraging words.
James

 

[JM]

OC, I think you shouldn't be pitted against the Latin Catholics on these issues, you hold the same beliefs. However, they have a pope and you don't, are you ever envious?

 

[Orthodox Christian]

OC, I think you shouldn't be pitted against the Latin Catholics on these issues, you hold the same beliefs. However, they have a pope and you don't, are you ever envious?

No need to be coy, Jason, I responded to the OP on my terms. I'm not envious of Catholics in any sense, for to have envy implies either lack or the perception thereof. I don't feel a lack- I feel blessed.

And I bless my separated brothers of the Latin Rite.

What sort of noob do you think will respond to this troll?

 

[JM]

What sort of noob do you think will respond to this troll?

This wasn't a troll post, it was to remind the folks on this forum that the Easterns and Latins hold to the same doctrines of salvation...that's about it.

What kind of 'noob' are you, I don't believe you are at all...even if we never see eye to eye, thanks for the vote of confidence. I may be a fundamentalist (name of theology: classic Pauline dispensationalist), but I don't slam folks for the sake of slamming. :

Peace,

jason