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Way back in the Old Testament days, the people were instructed to sacrifice animals to God as an atonement for their sins, were-by through the death of the sacrificial animal, the people would be spared the eternal death of their soul in Hell. But then in the New Testament(New Covenant)God changed that, He made a more perfect way.

God sent His only begotten Son (virgin birth) , Jesus Christ, to come to this earth, whom was Himself born as a baby of woman just like we were, who lived 33 years as a flesh man without committing not even one sin; and then He died on the cross for every sin that every person on the entire planet could ever and would ever possibly commit, from the first days to the last days of this world for those whom believe upon Him and ASK for forgiveness. And after three days dead in the tomb, Jesus Christ rose on that third day from the dead and ascended to the right hand of God in Heaven where He remains to this day.

When Jesus arose from the dead He had defeated death {Heb 2:14}, He defeated death for us whom believe. Because of what Jesus did, the eternal death of a soul in the Lake of Fire has no power at all over those who simply believe that God had Jesus to do it for us.

Heb 2:9-18
9 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.
10 For it became him, for whom are all things, and by whom are all things, in bringing many sons unto glory, to make the captain of their salvation perfect through sufferings.
11 For both he that sanctifieth and they who are sanctified are all of one: for which cause he is not ashamed to call them brethren,
12 Saying, I will declare thy name unto my brethren, in the midst of the church will I sing praise unto thee {Ps 22:22}.
13 And again, I will put my trust in him {2nd Sam 22:3}. And again, Behold I and the children which God hath given me {Isa 8:18}.
14 Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;
15 And deliver them who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage.
16 For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham.
17 Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people.
18 For in that he himself hath suffered being tempted, he is able to succour them that are tempted. (KJV)

You see, there are two deaths, there are two bodies with each of us, the flesh body that we can see and the spiritual body within - our very soul so to speak; the first death is the death of the body (flesh) , but the other death is far more important. The second death is the death of a soul, and it is eternal. We all die in the flesh, and they bury our flesh body, but our soul (spiritual body)goes immediately back to our Heavenly Father upon the instant of our death. There we await the Final Judgment Day, and those who have not overcome will then be cast into the Lake of Fire (Hell)to be nevermore, but those who do overcome will go on to spend the eternity in Heaven with God, Jesus, and all the others who overcame.

1 Cor 15:44 (the two bodies, flesh and spirit)44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body. (KJV)

So when they say "we are saved', they are saying that we are saved from the second death, that meaning: saved from the death of our souls in the Lake of Fire (Hell). And when they say 'born again' what they are really saying is: 'born from above'. It means to have eternal life from God enter your spiritual body, it means that your soul can live for ever and not perish in the Lake of Fire. Jesus explains this to a Jewish priest in the below scripture. This Jewish priest was a good man who believed upon Jesus. This priest even risked excommunication by coming to speak with Jesus, that is why he came to Jesus by 'night', in those days no one traveled by night. The high Jewish priest at that time forbade any to come to Jesus; this man had faith to risk it all! Below, we see the man call Jesus 'Rabbi', this simply means 'teacher' in Hebrew and it is an address of respect:

John 3:1-71 There was a man of the Pharisees, named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews:
2 The same came to Jesus by night, and said unto him, Rabbi, we know that thou art a teacher come from God: for no man can do these miracles that thou doest, except God be with him.
3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God [Heaven].
4 Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?
5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again. (KJV)


Born again, what does it mean?
We are all born from a 'sac' of water (Amniotic Fluid) in our mother's womb, this is the first birth, the birth through the water (and while Baptism is indeed important and Jesus did command us to so be, it is not the subject being spoken of in this particular Scripture). But we must also be born into the Kingdom of God through Jesus Christ to attain eternal life in Heaven. This is the second birth, the birth through the Holy Spirit in Jesus Christ. The second birth is spiritual and we have that choice unlike the choice of being born from our mother's womb. And once we are born spiritually through belief in Christ into the Kingdom of God (Heaven), then the second death (eternal death) has no power over us. For you remember that Jesus defeated that death on the cross for all who would believe upon Him. In other words, when you reach out to Jesus Christ and believe that He is the only Begotten Son of God who died and rose again and is in Heaven with God, then He spreads His cloak of protection over your very soul, and God honors that because He said He would.

What does it mean to be a Christian?
Being a Christian means you believe in Christ. It does not mean you are some kind of saint. We all sin, every single human being sins to some degree, some more than others. The difference is that being a Christian means that you know that your sins are forgiven, after you repent for each one, through the sacrifice of Jesus Christ that day on the cross. In the scripture below, Apostle Paul is speaking about forgiveness of sin through faith in Jesus Christ. The word propitiation means 'payment for sin'. Jesus Christ was that propitiation, Jesus Christ dies that we may live, Jesus Christ is the only door to salvation through His suffering and by the grace of our Lord God to us whom would simply believe.

Rom 3:23-26
23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:
25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;
26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus. (KJV)

You see, God knew that man could never make it on his own, that is why He sent Jesus to 'stand in the gap' for us. We have used the term "believe in Christ" many times in this study, but what exactly does that mean? In the beginning a new Christian is a little unsure of himself, he is a little unsure of his faith. This is normal and it is OK. As you study more of God's Written Word, His letter to you, the Bible, your faith grows. When you study the Bible and ask God to help you understand and increase your faith, He sends His Spirit upon you, the Holy Spirit, and a feeling of assuredness comes into you soul. This is the second birth, it is your spiritual body blossoming with truth. The more you study God's Word the more you grow spiritually.
It's like a little seed when it is watered it grows, but when you cut the water off it shrivels and dies. The spiritual water that you pour on your soul is the True Word of God, it is the knowledge of Jesus Christ and all things God has shown us through the Bible. You gain that knowledge by reading of it in the book that God ensured we would always have - The Bible. Jesus is called the Living Water, for through Him a dormant seed grows into a mighty one of faith. That seed is your soul.

edited for content
 
Last edited by a moderator:
n2thelight said:
Just curious as to what people think being saved means,and what are we saved from?
Click to expand...
That's one way to open the flood gates; ask for opinions. There are as many opinions about what saved means as there are people with opinions. :)

The best answer always uses Scripture as reference. The Bible indicates that salvation means being saved from the lake of fire (Rev 20:15) ultimately, and being saved from sin (Matt 1:21).

Actually, there are 3 tenses regarding salvation:

Past: we are saved from the penalty of sin.
Present: we are saved from the power of sin.
Future: we will be saved from the presence of sin.

http://preceptaustin.org/titus_34-8.htm

Scroll down about 1/4 of the document.
 
n2thelight said:
Just curious as to what people think being saved means,and what are we saved from?
Click to expand...
Please follow the Forum Guidelines.

Christian Theology is by definition the study of God through His word, the Bible. Apologetics goes hand in hand with theology as it is the branch of Christian theology which attempts to give a rational defense of the Christian faith. That makes the Apologetics and Theology forum unique from many of our other forums in that this is a place specifically for these types of discussions.

With this in mind, the following guidelines should be followed.


  • Original posts should reference specific scripture and what it is the member wants to say or ask about that scripture.
  • Subsequent opposing responses should include references to supportive scripture relevant to the thread and offer explanation for the contrary understanding.
  • Opinions are plenty and have little value so please do not state positions that have no basis in scripture.
  • Do not use phrases such as, “You’re wrong.” This is insulting and inappropriate and there are nicer ways to disagree without being insulting.
  • Once you have made a point, refrain from flooding the forum with numerous posts making the same point over and over with nothing new to support it.
  • You may ask a member questions as to what they believe on certain topics relative to the subject of the thread, but please keep in mind the member is under no obligation to answer.
  • Failing to answer someone’s question doesn’t necessarily amount to an admission of error or surrender but keep in mind that in any debate if you refuse to or can not answer a reasonable question, it may weaken your position.
 
n2thelight said:
Way back in the Old Testament days, the people were instructed to sacrifice animals to God as an atonement for their sins, were-by through the death of the sacrificial animal, the people would be spared the eternal death of their soul in Hell. But then in the New Testament(New Covenant)God changed that, He made a more perfect way.

God sent His only begotten Son (virgin birth) , Jesus Christ, to come to this earth, whom was Himself born as a baby of woman just like we were, who lived 33 years as a flesh man without committing not even one sin; and then He died on the cross for every sin that every person on the entire planet could ever and would ever possibly commit, from the first days to the last days of this world for those whom believe upon Him and ASK for forgiveness. And after three days dead in the tomb, Jesus Christ rose on that third day from the dead and ascended to the right hand of God in Heaven where He remains to this day.

When Jesus arose from the dead He had defeated death {Heb 2:14}, He defeated death for us whom believe. Because of what Jesus did, the eternal death of a soul in the Lake of Fire has no power at all over those who simply believe that God had Jesus to do it for us.

Heb 2:9-18
9 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.
10 For it became him, for whom are all things, and by whom are all things, in bringing many sons unto glory, to make the captain of their salvation perfect through sufferings.
11 For both he that sanctifieth and they who are sanctified are all of one: for which cause he is not ashamed to call them brethren,
12 Saying, I will declare thy name unto my brethren, in the midst of the church will I sing praise unto thee {Ps 22:22}.
13 And again, I will put my trust in him {2nd Sam 22:3}. And again, Behold I and the children which God hath given me {Isa 8:18}.
14 Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;
15 And deliver them who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage.
16 For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham.
17 Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people.
18 For in that he himself hath suffered being tempted, he is able to succour them that are tempted. (KJV)

You see, there are two deaths, there are two bodies with each of us, the flesh body that we can see and the spiritual body within - our very soul so to speak; the first death is the death of the body (flesh) , but the other death is far more important. The second death is the death of a soul, and it is eternal. We all die in the flesh, and they bury our flesh body, but our soul (spiritual body)goes immediately back to our Heavenly Father upon the instant of our death. There we await the Final Judgment Day, and those who have not overcome will then be cast into the Lake of Fire (Hell)to be nevermore, but those who do overcome will go on to spend the eternity in Heaven with God, Jesus, and all the others who overcame.

1 Cor 15:44 (the two bodies, flesh and spirit)44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body. (KJV)

So when they say "we are saved', they are saying that we are saved from the second death, that meaning: saved from the death of our souls in the Lake of Fire (Hell). And when they say 'born again' what they are really saying is: 'born from above'. It means to have eternal life from God enter your spiritual body, it means that your soul can live for ever and not perish in the Lake of Fire. Jesus explains this to a Jewish priest in the below scripture. This Jewish priest was a good man who believed upon Jesus. This priest even risked excommunication by coming to speak with Jesus, that is why he came to Jesus by 'night', in those days no one traveled by night. The high Jewish priest at that time forbade any to come to Jesus; this man had faith to risk it all! Below, we see the man call Jesus 'Rabbi', this simply means 'teacher' in Hebrew and it is an address of respect:

John 3:1-71 There was a man of the Pharisees, named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews:
2 The same came to Jesus by night, and said unto him, Rabbi, we know that thou art a teacher come from God: for no man can do these miracles that thou doest, except God be with him.
3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God [Heaven].
4 Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?
5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again. (KJV)


Born again, what does it mean?
We are all born from a 'sac' of water (Amniotic Fluid) in our mother's womb, this is the first birth, the birth through the water (and while Baptism is indeed important and Jesus did command us to so be, it is not the subject being spoken of in this particular Scripture). But we must also be born into the Kingdom of God through Jesus Christ to attain eternal life in Heaven. This is the second birth, the birth through the Holy Spirit in Jesus Christ. The second birth is spiritual and we have that choice unlike the choice of being born from our mother's womb. And once we are born spiritually through belief in Christ into the Kingdom of God (Heaven), then the second death (eternal death) has no power over us. For you remember that Jesus defeated that death on the cross for all who would believe upon Him. In other words, when you reach out to Jesus Christ and believe that He is the only Begotten Son of God who died and rose again and is in Heaven with God, then He spreads His cloak of protection over your very soul, and God honors that because He said He would.

What does it mean to be a Christian?
Being a Christian means you believe in Christ. It does not mean you are some kind of saint. We all sin, every single human being sins to some degree, some more than others. The difference is that being a Christian means that you know that your sins are forgiven, after you repent for each one, through the sacrifice of Jesus Christ that day on the cross. In the scripture below, Apostle Paul is speaking about forgiveness of sin through faith in Jesus Christ. The word propitiation means 'payment for sin'. Jesus Christ was that propitiation, Jesus Christ dies that we may live, Jesus Christ is the only door to salvation through His suffering and by the grace of our Lord God to us whom would simply believe.

Rom 3:23-26
23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:
25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;
26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus. (KJV)

You see, God knew that man could never make it on his own, that is why He sent Jesus to 'stand in the gap' for us. We have used the term "believe in Christ" many times in this study, but what exactly does that mean? In the beginning a new Christian is a little unsure of himself, he is a little unsure of his faith. This is normal and it is OK. As you study more of God's Written Word, His letter to you, the Bible, your faith grows. When you study the Bible and ask God to help you understand and increase your faith, He sends His Spirit upon you, the Holy Spirit, and a feeling of assuredness comes into you soul. This is the second birth, it is your spiritual body blossoming with truth. The more you study God's Word the more you grow spiritually.
It's like a little seed when it is watered it grows, but when you cut the water off it shrivels and dies. The spiritual water that you pour on your soul is the True Word of God, it is the knowledge of Jesus Christ and all things God has shown us through the Bible. You gain that knowledge by reading of it in the book that God ensured we would always have - The Bible. Jesus is called the Living Water, for through Him a dormant seed grows into a mighty one of faith. That seed is your soul.

http://www.biblestudysite.com/getsave.htm
Click to expand...

Very good post!
I also believe in the death of the soul.
Blotted out
As if they never existed.
In John 3:16
For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in Him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
Perish, meaning fully destroy, they do not have eternal life anywhere.
Matt.10:28
And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul, but rather fear Him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell..

:goodpost
 
Let's not turn this into another eternal conscious torment vs total annihilation thread.
 
Please remember to follow the guidelines found in the sticky at the top of the forum.
 
Definition of the word saved :

To be delivered from danger or destruction.

Saved from what?

We need to be saved from our sins, or we would suffer from God’s wrath. Our sinful nature causes a separation between us and God. Christ’s death reconciles us to God. This reconciliation makes the way for those who believe in the Lord to be saved.

Romans 5:8-12King James Version (KJV)

8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.11 And not only so, but we also joy in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom we have now received the atonement.12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned


A key component to our salvation is found at Hebrews 5:9 (KJV)
9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;
 
n2thelight said:
Just curious as to what people think being saved means,and what are we saved from?
Click to expand...
According to the Bible, the wages of sin is death (and the gift of God is eternal life in Christ).
Being saved means having your sins forgiven and being resurrected to eternal life, so that you will have eternal life instead of death.
For God so loved the world that he gave his only son that whosoever believes in him will not perish but will have eternal life.

(Romans 6:23, John 3:16)
 
Matthew 1:21
And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins.
 
kiwidan said:
Can you verify your statement, and can you show me reliable historic evidence that what you have quoted is true?. Can you give a path through historic text that can verify and show me that this verse is reliable and has credibility?

I know, im good at asking questions. Im a pro now. :thumbsup
Click to expand...

I'm glad you are, kiwi, it's good for you to be asking questions. I think a good Christian foundation requires us to know enough about our faith to be able to defend it.

Can I show you historical evidence of being saved from sin? No, and I can't really imagine what that would look like. Being saved means the we accept Jesus as having paid the price for our sins, that we accept Christ as savior, and live the rest of our lives as instruments of His will. The ultimate test of a man's salvation is what happens after earthly death. If truly saved, we live eternity in the presence of God rather than being cast into eternal damnation (separation from God.) (Please cite scripture, per the A&T guidelines, to support your theological points. Obadiah) I can't show historical evidence of what happens after death, it's a matter of faith. And, you are a man of faith now.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
dianegcook said:
Sorry, I'm kinda new here, didn't know it was a touchy subject.
:nod
Click to expand...
It seems that it is best to not think about it. John Stott said that he could "not understand how people can live with it without either cauterising their feelings or cracking under the strain." It's swept under the rug, we don't have to think about it. Every once in a while a visitor comes along and says "what's that smell?" We smile and say "What smell? I don't smell anything."
 
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