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[_ Old Earth _] Scopes

brother Paul

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Long but very important! Feel free to copy, print, and distribute to any and all.

Inherit the Wind was a masterfully designed propaganda piece that has assisted the brainwashing of millions of innocently inquiring minds. History tells us that actually “the people of Dayton”, Tennessee, never took John Scopes to trial for such a crime. The whole case was a test case encouraged by the A.C.L.U.! Yes, some people complained, but actually only a very small group of concerned parents filed the suit. You will see the nature of their sincere concern when you read the political orientation of the actual textbook being used by Scopes, which I will show you.

Scopes was never actually put in jail! He simply broke a then existent law that was currently being hotly debated for amendment (even in Tennessee) called “The Butler Act“. The Butler Act was a law which did forbid the teaching of Darwin’s view of evolution. However there were many Americans even in Dayton who thought this law was inappropriate. Most Americans still thought teaching all views was what should be done, and it was only a matter of time before this law would be overturned.


John Scopes was actually placed into the trial setting, as a premeditated strategy of the New York, A.C.L.U. who rightly opposed this Act. But Scopes was a justifiable means to a predetermined end. In essence, in the vernacular of the leftist elite, he was what would be called a useful idiot! Nothing more than a paid pawn! One of many such pawns at that time, being used for the achievement of a much larger goal in similar trial settings all over the nation, but you didn’t know that did you?


Another deception put forth in Inherit the Wind is that John Scopes was just a simple science teacher. John Scopes actually was not a Biology teacher at all! He was in fact conveniently substituting outside of his own field of expertise while the genuine science teacher was away! His area of expertise was Law (though he minored in geology). He served as schools the football coach and sometimes substituted. He was given the text (read its conclusion at the end of this presentation) and was instructed what to teach (remember poor Ota).


In reality, laws like the Butler Act were presently being debated in about 36 states around the nation at the time. Many U.S. citizens simply did not want the racist version of Darwin’s evolutionary theory (not necessarily his view) being presented as if it were an established fact to the exclusion of other alternative origins explanations. It is true also that many wanted a Creationist model presented exclusively (the Fundamentalist minority) but what you may not realize is there were many who also wanted this model removed entirely. Most Americans thought teaching all views is better in encouraging students to come to the most soundly objective conclusions.


But that is what America is all about. Different people free to express their different views without legal reprisal. Given all the facts we decide for ourselves. Scopes was a man totally free to hold and express is own opinion, but as you will see, it was good and right that he should not be allowed to teach racism as factual academia.


Most regular people in the nation, moms and dads, lawyers, teachers, and even many scientists, wanted this intentionally deception halted, if for no other reason, in the name of intellectual integrity, but they had no problem with Darwinian evolution being taught so long as it was taught as a theory and its racist conclusions were eliminated. Teach it if you will, but not as if it is the established truth.


At the time popular opinion was being shaped to accept Piltdown and Java as true “missing links” (after all they had Ota caged as a living example). Even Piltdown flooded textbooks until the early 1950s brainwashing generations of students. Ontogeny was still being taught to recapitulate phylogeny (even in Universites)….yet all were contrived lies.


The Scopes Trial was only one of a number of premeditated, entirely highly financed trials, at different legal levels which were being waged at the time as one battle strategy of an intentional culture war being waged by special interest groups like the Birth Control League, and John Dewey’s N.E.A., in an attempt to establish precedents.


By flooding the Courts with hundreds of cases with hopes of gaining even small ground in a number of “exception to the rule” cases, which they would then be able to site as victories later on and thereby misrepresent the sentiment of the American people. After about 1,000 cases, if they had won even only 50, when they went to litigate case number 1,001, they would have had enough cases to site, and eventually by 2,000 cases or so, the exception could be made to appear as the rule, and the rule as the exception.


This divisive legal charade is a commonly used technique applied by groups repeatedly even in our time. I admit this approach was and is an absolutely brilliant piece of legal strategy, and has been rather successful in many areas for activists of all sorts. This very successful technique is still being used by these same groups today on a mass scale, and comes right out of classic works on how to wage a legislative propaganda war. Unfortunately then as it is now, it is still a tool of total deception right down to the last engineered media presentation that follows.
 
Most regular people in the nation, moms and dads, lawyers, teachers, and even many scientists, wanted this intentionally deception halted, if for no other reason, in the name of intellectual integrity, but they had no problem with Darwinian evolution being taught so long as it was taught as a theory and its racist conclusions were eliminated.

As you learned, there were no racist conclusions in Darwinian theory. In fact, Darwin pointed out that other races, if educated and accultured into English society, would be no different than other Englishmen. Quite a difference from the creationists of his time, who predominately favored slavery. And from many modern creationists, who continued to argue that blacks were genetically inferior to whites. Would you like me to show you that, again?

Teach it if you will, but not as if it is the established truth.

It's directly observed. You might as well assail teaching gravity.

In fact, we know why evolution works. We still aren't completely sure why gravity works.
 
Racism is an old hat worn by many. It started with the doctrine of the Varnas brought to the Indus valley (in the ancient cast system being dark skinned was a karmic curse and your destiny was to be an outcast.untouchable/servant). It is not the creationist OR non-creationist view but one held in high esteem among the Europeans (especially the aristocratic class)....Darwin (though possibly not being a racist personally) indirectly gave a scientific reasoning racists could use to support their view (just as a minority of creationists tried to twist the Bible to support it). So not discount the valiant fight and price paid by many Christians and Jews (as well as non-"creationists") who fought against such thinking....most abolishionists were Bible believing Christians!
 
Racism is an old hat worn by many.

Of course. There was racism long before there was creationism as we know it today. The point is that creationism became a justification for racism for many people, and many of the creationist leaders were racists and eugenists.

Darwin (though possibly not being a racist personally)

Like most Europeans of his time, he was. He differed from the usual by asserting that it was climate and culture that made things so, and that other races brought to England would quickly become like Englishmen. Turns out he was right about that, too. Still, his views, if presented by a scientist today, would get him in big trouble.

indirectly gave a scientific reasoning racists could use to support their view (just as a minority of creationists tried to twist the Bible to support it).

The difference is, a scientist in modern times who did something like that (e.g. Watson) loses his career. When Henry Morris did it, not a creationist called him out on it. Apparently, not many Bible-believing Christians in creationism.
 
Belief that God created offers no support for racial prejudice. Any BIBLE BELIEVING person can deny that God created. The Bible teaches us that God only created ONE human race of one blood not two or three or a graduating hierarchy some being closer to apes. Racial prejudice is common to almost any group (not necessarily representative of the majority of that group). It can be based on many factors (experience, preference, familiarity, and more). But racism is usually motivated by factors such as control, power, economics, etc., and behind it lays a smug sense of rightful superiority (on whatever basis). You won't find a Morris encouraging the elimination of a peoples on the basis of their alleged race.
 
Neo-Darwinian and professed Eugenics Educator Margaret Sanger proudly published articles that were written by Hitler’s, Director of Eugenic Sterilization, Ernst Rudin! These inspired her famous “The Negro Project” wherein she called for quietly limiting the births of people of African descent (and others), whom she referred to as nothing more than “the dead weight of human waste.”

The Negroes…particularly in the south, still breed carelessly and disastrously, with the result that the increase among Negroes, even more than among whites, is from that portion of the population least intelligent and fit…”! This was based on her observation of the intentionally repressed American slave cast and her belief they were lower on the evolutionary scale.

She insisted that the imbalance between the birth rates of the more “unfit”, i.e., her so-called “dysgenic stock“ (by which she meant Africans, Hispanics, Jews, and Catholics), and the more genetically “fit” (by which she meant aristocratic Caucasoid types), “is the greatest present menace to our civilization” (parenthesis mine).

As late as 1970, right here in the U.S.A., one of her followers, Mr. I. I. Gottesman, of “The American Eugenics Society“, made clear their intent “to overcome, even natural selection, by the conscious, pre-meditated“, engineering, known as artificial selection, in the hope of “speeding up the evolution of desirable characteristics, and the elimination of the undesirable ones”.

Hitler’s Dr. Ernst Rudin was being published in Margaret Sanger’s Birth Control Review, declared with full support here that “…experience has led me to the conclusion that systematic and careful propaganda should be undertaken where sterilization is advisable. Such propaganda should, of course, be gradual and should be directed in the first instance at the medical directors in institutions and schools, medical officers of health, and finally at private practitioners...”.

When Margaret Sanger said, “We do not want word to go out that we want to exterminate the Negro population”, she was commenting on the 'Negro Project' in a letter to Dr. Clarence Gamble, December 10, 1939 (Sanger manuscripts, Sophia Smith Collection, Smith College, North Hampton, Massachusetts and also described in Linda Gordon's Woman's Body, Woman's Right: A Social History of Birth Control in America. New York: Grossman Publishers, 1976).
 
Belief that God created offers no support for racial prejudice.

True.

Any BIBLE BELIEVING person can deny that God created.

Not true.

The Bible teaches us that God only created ONE human race

That's not what it says. It merely notes that humans began at some point, when God chose to give them immortal souls and make them different than other animals. Nothing about races or species. For example, Neandertals were a subspecies of human, but still humans. So was Homo erectus.

of one blood not two or three or a graduating hierarchy some being closer to apes.

Humans are apes biologically. Our image of God is not in our bodies (which Jesus taught that God does not have). It's in our souls and minds.

Racial prejudice is common to almost any group (not necessarily representative of the majority of that group). It can be based on many factors (experience, preference, familiarity, and more). But racism is usually motivated by factors such as control, power, economics, etc., and behind it lays a smug sense of rightful superiority (on whatever basis). You won't find a Morris encouraging the elimination of a peoples on the basis of their alleged race.

True. He taught that certain people were born to serve his kind of people. It would have been a waste, from his point of view, to kill them.

But effectively, that view leads to the extermination of other peoples, as Darwin decried in his books. He thought, given the racist behavior of people like Morris, that many human groups would be exterminated. He was wrong; his ideas won out. Slavery was abolished, and racial discrimination has been greatly curtailed in many parts of the world.
 
Any BIBLE BELIEVING person can deny that God created.

Not true.

Sorry Barb that was sort of a trick…so you if you believe Jesus who said the word is truth (referring to the Hebrew scriptures – John 17:17-20) then you must also be a creationist (though not a YEC)

That's not what it says. It merely notes that humans began at some point, when God chose to give them immortal souls and make them different than other animals.

Ever read Acts 17:26?

Humans are apes biologically.

Well at least both are primates (bodily)

Our image of God is not in our bodies

I totally agree with you here….

Darwin…thought, given the racist behavior of people like Morris, that many human groups would be exterminated.

I disagree here. Also he was dead long before Morris (though there were people already exalting their alleged Euro-Caucasoid superiority issues long before Chuck was born). Too many of his closest relatives and followers saw what his study implied as being how I have seen it (I gave many examples).
 
Also you keep mentioning Morris as a racist when it is obvious he was not speaking of what Darwin was calling "races" that was interpreted into the applied "racism" of many of his followers and closest relatives. He was speaking of different genetic potentials among members of the same family (cousins in fact....all the offspring of the sons of our Noah...therefore one race of one blood). Even the propaganda site Talk Origins

http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/racism.html

could not take away his very wording...he was stating what history has presented allowing for exceptions in all three branches of Noah's genetic tree....some Japhethites threefore can be religious or oriented to serve, some Shemites can as well (many are non-religious seemingly by nature) and likewise there can be and is many religious as well as intellectually astute members of the Cushite line...but they are not indicated separate races, or more primitive, or less civilized, or as "inferior"...just each has a general difference in propensity (due to the Chromosomal combinations each received and later .had reinforced)
 
Last edited:
Barbarian said: "Humans are apes biologically." that's not true apes are beasts in the animal kingdom, entirely different from us..

tob
 
Any BIBLE BELIEVING person can deny that God created.

Barbarian observes:
Not true.

Sorry Barb that was sort of a trick…

Typo, um? But as you know, most creationists don't believe the Bible.

Barbarian observes:
That's not what it says. It merely notes that humans began at some point, when God chose to give them immortal souls and make them different than other animals.


Yep. That doesn't say it, either.

Barbarian observes:
Humans are apes biologically.

Well at least both are primates (bodily)

Genetically, anatomically, and biochemically, chimps, bonobos, and humans are more closely related than any of those are to anything else. so those three apes are a clade with the rest of the apes as the outgroup.

Barbarian observes:
Our image of God is not in our bodies

I totally agree with you here….

Barbarian observes:
Darwin…thought, given the racist behavior of people like Morris, that many human groups would be exterminated.

I disagree here. Also he was dead long before Morris (though there were people already exalting their alleged Euro-Caucasoid superiority issues long before Chuck was born).

Of course. Racism was rampant long before evolutionary theory showed that there are no biological human races. But I said "people like Morris." They assumed that there was an innate quality to black people that made them inferior to whites. Morris was different only in that he used Mendel's discoveries about genes to slander black people as intellectually and spiritually inferior.

Too many of his closest relatives and followers saw what his study implied

Darwin's conclusion was that other races, if brought to England to live, would soon be just like Englishmen. He was quite right. And modern evolutionary theory had shown that creationists like Morris, Agassiz, and Tinkle were wrong; there are no biological human races.
 
Okay have it your way! Mr. and Mrs. Noah had three sons and with their wives who were all from the same fam all from the same human ancestors. Apes are ape and never the twain did meet. Likewise fish are and always were fish and never became dinosours and never has there been one bit of "proof" for that anything else ever happened just conjecture, and consensus among the like minded and the brainwashed (creative but unfounded replacement theory for the glorious work of our creator), topped off by provisional interpretation of evidence.May the Lord bless you and keep you and may the Spirit lead us all into truth....Amen
 
Okay have it your way! Mr. and Mrs. Noah had three sons and with their wives who were all from the same fam all from the same human ancestors.

You don't think Adam and Eve were real people?

Apes are ape and never the twain did meet.

Diverged. The ancestors of humans and chimps diverged from other apes, and then diverged again into three species, one of which is us.

Likewise fish are and always were fish and never became dinosours

Give us a testable definition for "fish" and we'll see how that belief stands up.

and never has there been one bit of "proof" for that anything else ever happened just conjecture

No, that's wrong. "Proof" is not part of science, since science is mostly inductive. What science does, is gather evidence to the point that it's perverse to deny it. You use the same process when you get up in the morning, assume that the shower will work, your automobile will start, and so on. And if they don't, you don't seek to exorcise the demons of malfunction, you find someone with the scientific ability to figure out what's wrong, and fix them.

The evidence for common descent is voluminous and based on a number of independent sources, such as the family tree discovered by Linnaeus, the large number of transitional forms in the fossil record, genetic analysis, and observed speciation.

Would you like to see some more of that?

and consensus among the like minded and the brainwashed (creative but unfounded replacement theory for the glorious work of our creator)

For a Christian, nature and evolution is more evidence of a Creator.
 
the family tree discovered by Linnaeus,

invented by Linnaeus

the large number of transitional forms in the fossil record

Charles Darwin himself admitted that, “If it could be demonstrated that any complex organ existed which could not possibly have been formed by numerous, successive, slight modifications, my theory would absolutely break down“.

“…A SPECIES DOES NOT ARISE GRADUALLY BY THE STEADY TRANSFORMATION OF ITS ANCESTORS, IT APPEARS ALL AT ONCE FULLY FORMED“ – Stephen J. Gould

genetic analysis,

a lot of speculation in this area (we understand about 2% of the genome and the functional interactions between the genes

and observed speciation

Ah yes the known production of variety in any one type of creature (which never has become another/different creature).
 
Likewise fish are and always were fish and never became dinosours

Give us a testable definition for "fish" and we'll see how that belief stands up.

General definition:

1) a limbless cold-blooded vertebrate animal with gills and fins and living wholly in water (Most having a body covered with scales)

2) any member of a paraphyletic group of organisms that consist of all gill-bearing aquatic craniate animals that lack limbs with digits (though it is perceived by some that members of the lungfish and coelacanth may be called limbs, but in no wise resemble arms or legs as commonly defined)

3) Mmmm!!!! Yummy food source, high in amino acids and necessary fatty acids….Mmmmm!!!

4) An easy mark in a con game....(reel'm in boys)

Paul
 
Barbarian observes:
The evidence for common descent is voluminous and based on a number of independent sources, such as the family tree discovered by Linnaeus, the large number of transitional forms in the fossil record, genetic analysis, and observed speciation.

invented by Linnaeus

Nope. He was somewhat surprised to see his data gave a family tree, instead of the "scala natura" so beloved by pre-evolution biologists. He got what he wasn't expecting to find.

the large number of transitional forms in the fossil record

Charles Darwin himself admitted that, “If it could be demonstrated that any complex organ existed which could not possibly have been formed by numerous, successive, slight modifications, my theory would absolutely break down“.

Show me one adaptation that couldn't be so. You won't find one.

“…A SPECIES DOES NOT ARISE GRADUALLY BY THE STEADY TRANSFORMATION OF ITS ANCESTORS, IT APPEARS ALL AT ONCE FULLY FORMED“ – Stephen J. Gould

Here's what he actually wrote before quote miners got to it:
In any local area, a species does not arise gradually by the steady transformation of its ancestors; it appears all at once and 'fully formed

Rarely will you see the entire assemblage in one local area. Gould cites horses as a group for which a long and gradual change is documented in the fossil record. Do you deny that?

genetic analysis,

a lot of speculation in this area (we understand about 2% of the genome and the functional interactions between the genes

Turns out, we've completely sequenced a number of genomes, including humans and chimps. You're a few decades behind. However, even relatively simple tests like DNA hybridization (not organism hybridization) will show the same family tree that puzzled Linnaeus. And we know it works, because we can test it on organisms of known ancestry.

and observed speciation

Ah yes the known production of variety in any one type of creature (which never has become another/different creature).

Every organism on Earth is a "different creature." But the point is that new taxa evolve constantly, something even most professional creationists now admit. Would you like me to show you that?
 
Likewise fish are and always were fish and never became dinosours

Barbarian suggests:
Give us a testable definition for "fish" and we'll see how that belief stands up.

1) a limbless cold-blooded vertebrate animal with gills and fins and living wholly in water (Most having a body covered with scales)

2) any member of a paraphyletic group of organisms that consist of all gill-bearing aquatic craniate animals that lack limbs with digits (though it is perceived by some that members of the lungfish and coelacanth may be called limbs, but in no wise resemble arms or legs as commonly defined)

Hmm... so this fellah... (Acanthostega)

acanthostega.jpg

Having internal gills, a lateral line system, and a finned tail (the only chordates having these are fish), but also complete limbs with digits, femur, tibia, fibula, tarsals, etc. Is what, according to you?

You were given a bit of misdirection. Neither coelacanths nor lungfish are on the particular line that led to Acanthostega, and ultimately to all tetrapods. But there were fish closely related to them, which did have the same limb bones as we do. Would you like to learn about that?

BTW, because the connections of limbs to spine were so weak in this one, it could not walk on land. Seems that it moved around on the bottom of shallow ponds this way. But this one...
6%20ichthyostega.jpg

...could do so quite easily. Still looks more like a fish than a tetrapod, but now it can move about on land. And since this clade of fish always had lungs, it isn't hard to see how it adapted easily.
 
Evolutionary biologists argue that since human and chimp DNA are nearly identical, both species must have evolved from a common ancestor. However, creation scientists have pointed out that their DNA is, in fact, very dissimilar. The vast majority of each species' DNA sequence is not genes, but instead regulated gene expression. A new report unmistakably confirmed that the regulatory DNA of humans is totally different from that of chimps, revealing no hint of common ancestry.

http://www.icr.org/article/dna-study-contradicts-human-chimp-common/

Apes are apes man is man but its like you were telling Paul, he's decades behind in the new world order of things where Gods word is taking a back seat to Darwinism..

Try to remember this Barbarian

I Corinthians 15:39 All flesh is not the same flesh: but there is one kind of flesh of men, another flesh of beasts, another of fishes, and another of birds.

These are Gods words not mine nor anyone else..

tob
 
Evolutionary biologists argue that since human and chimp DNA are nearly identical, both species must have evolved from a common ancestor.

This is a fact. We know, because we can check the method on organisms of known descent.

However, creation scientists have pointed out that their DNA is, in fact, very dissimilar.

No, that's false. In fact, if you sort organisms by the degree of difference in DNA, you will come up with the same family tree Linnaeus found, to a very high degree of precision. And we differ from other organisms DNA by pretty much the amount predicted from Linnaeus' data.

The vast majority of each species' DNA sequence is not genes, but instead regulated gene expression. A new report unmistakably confirmed that the regulatory DNA of humans is totally different from that of chimps, revealing no hint of common ancestry.

http://www.icr.org/article/dna-study-contradicts-human-chimp-common/


Well, let's take a look... Ah:
The report says exactly the opposite of what you told us it said:

Characterization and potential functional significance of human-chimpanzee large INDEL variation
Mobile DNA 2011, 2:13
Nalini Polavarapu , Gaurav Arora , Vinay K Mittal and John F McDonald
Although humans and chimpanzees have accumulated significant differences in a number of phenotypic traits since diverging from a common ancestor about six million years ago, their genomes are more than 98.5% identical at protein-coding loci. This modest degree of nucleotide divergence is not sufficient to explain the extensive phenotypic differences between the two species. It has been hypothesized that the genetic basis of the phenotypic differences lies at the level of gene regulation and is associated with the extensive insertion and deletion (INDEL) variation between the two species. To test the hypothesis that large INDELs (80 to 12,000 bp) may have contributed significantly to differences in gene regulation between the two species, we categorized human-chimpanzee INDEL variation mapping in or around genes and determined whether this variation is significantly correlated with previously determined differences in gene expression.


The remarkable closeness of chimps and humans genetically, seems to be too close for the phenetic differences. And it turns out that evolutionary theory shows why. But the ICR just made up the rest of it, confident that you wouldn't check for yourself. And they got you again.

The flesh of every species is different than every other. But even if you can't be an organ donor for your children, you are still their parent. Think about it. And learn to be a little more cautious about believing what people tell you.
 
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