Secular Humanism a religion?

[Milk-Drops]

This is a carry over from a thread to help keep the other thread on topic.

im sorry, then why did the maaf call for a chaplain for them so that they can have a chaplain to do rites for a non rite system? note I am not saying all here but I have heard of some secular humanists having rites.

I really don't know. Like I said, there really isn't anything about it that makes it a religion in itself. Mainly because sec Humanism is just humanism with a focus on church state separation. Just like how Christian humanism is just humanism melded with the ideals of Christianity.

It boggles my mind. That is why I brought up a litmus test to see if it is a religion. Every class I have ever taken on religion or philosophy in college used what I used to decided whether something was a philosophy or a religion.

Like I said, I don't understand what the supreme court was thinking unless we actually analyze the case.

 

[jasoncran]

http://militaryatheists.org/chaplain/

that is what the other article was referring too. however, I have read some statement by humanists that allege otherwise.

 

[reba]

This thread like the 'other' one are 'hot topics' please do your part in keeping them calm.... and on topic. reba

 

[Milk-Drops]

I will do my best.

 

[Jack Hectorman]

Secular Humanism is a religion because it functions, de facto, exactly like a religion functions. Secular Humanism has a moral code that it believes and holds to be true by faith. It most certainly cannot demonstrate its metaphysical faith beliefs in the moral areas using the Scientific Method, so it relies upon a faith-based moral code. That alone makes Secular Humanism function, for all practical purposes, exactly like a religion functions.

Moreover, Secular Humanism has a god that it, de facto, worships and the name of this god is Mankind.

True, Secular Humanism denies that it worships its god Mankind, but the truth is that to the Secular Humanist there is no Higher Being on Earth than Mankind.

So it becomes a matter of semantics I guess. /grin

I mean the Secular Humanists would all agree that Mankind was the Highest Being on the Earth, yet they would say, "We do not really worship Mankind as the Highest Being", but then they would proceed to continue to hold Mankind up as the Highest Being above any other creature on Earth.

I guess at this point they'd all go to their dictionaries to look up "worship" and "Highest Being." LOL

In light of all that, my view is: If it looks like a duck, waddles like a duck, swims like a duck, and quacks like a duck, then so far as I am concerned, it is a duck. LOL. Secular Humanism is a faith-based religion.

Anyway, thats just some thoughts I had at the moment.

♫

 

[Mike S]

Secular Humanism is a religion because it functions, de facto, exactly like a religion functions. Secular Humanism has a moral code that it believes and holds to be true by faith. It most certainly cannot demonstrate its metaphysical faith beliefs in the moral areas using the Scientific Method, so it relies upon a faith-based moral code. That alone makes Secular Humanism function, for all practical purposes, exactly like a religion functions.

Moreover, Secular Humanism has a god that it, de facto, worships and the name of this god is Mankind.

True, Secular Humanism denies that it worships its god Mankind, but the truth is that to the Secular Humanist there is no Higher Being on Earth than Mankind.

So it becomes a matter of semantics I guess. /grin

I mean the Secular Humanists would all agree that Mankind was the Highest Being on the Earth, yet they would say, "We do not really worship Mankind as the Highest Being", but then they would proceed to continue to hold Mankind up as the Highest Being above any other creature on Earth.

I guess at this point they'd all go to their dictionaries to look up "worship" and "Highest Being." LOL

In light of all that, my view is: If it looks like a duck, waddles like a duck, swims like a duck, and quacks like a duck, then so far as I am concerned, it is a duck. LOL. Secular Humanism is a faith-based religion.

Anyway, thats just some thoughts I had at the moment.

♫

Welcome to CF!


You're right, secular humanism is a religion, in that it has a set of core values and a worldview that makes it function exactly like any officially organized religion, but without a diety, other than mankind. If we examine secular humanism, we find elements of the ideology that roughly equate to creation narratives, a purity of original conditions, a fall from grace, the need for repentence, the possibility of redemption, etc., etc., etc. The truth is, mankind is hard-wired for religion, we can't make sense of the world without it. Or - if people object to the word itself - an ideology with narratives, rule and rituals, etc. that functions exactly like a religion.




http://vftonline.org/VFTfiles/Humanism/huxley.htm

Humanism, as Julian Huxley has said, is a religion without revelation. Its source is man; its values and ideals are man-centered. Its hope is a good and rewarding life in this world.

A religion is an organ of man in society which helps him to cope with the problems of nature and his destiny -- his place and role in the universe. It always involves the sense of sacredness or mystery and of participation in a continuing enterprise; it is always concerned with the problem of good and evil and with what transcends the individual self and the immediate and present facts of every day. A religion always has some framework of beliefs, some code of ethics, and some system of expression -- what are usually called a theology, a morality, and a ritual. When we look closely we find that the beliefs largely determine both the nature of the moral code and the form of the ritual.

The theological framework on which Christianity is supported includes as its centre the basic belief of all theistic religions -- the belief in the supernatural and the existence of a god or gods, supernatural beings endowed with properties of knowing, feeling, and willing akin to those of a human personality.

A humanist religion will have the task of redefining the categories of good and evil in terms of fulfilment and of desirable or undesirable realizations of potentiality, and setting up new targets for its morality to aim at.

In this process of transvaluation, to borrow Nietzsche's phrase, a humanist religion will certainly do something new -- it will assign a high value to the increase of scientifically based knowledge; for it is on knowledge and its applications that anything which can properly be called human advance or progress depends. It will also assign a high value to the creative imagination and the works of art and beauty and significance which it produces; for it is they which are the highest expressions of the spirit of man.

As regards the individual, a humanist religion will, like the ancient Greeks, stress excellence. But as complementary to this, it will go further than the Greek principle of moderation: nothing too much -- and will make psychological integration and total wholeness an essential aim, and in some sense the equivalent of the state of salvation in Christian terminology. Finally, it can give the individual much-needed protection against the tyrannies of society, much-needed support against the pressure of authoritarianism and conformism, by proclaiming the vital truth that in realising his own potentialities and in developing his own personality the individual is making his own unique contribution to the universal process of evolutionary fulfilment.

Humanism also differs from all supernaturalist religions in centering its long-term aims not on the next world but on this. One of its fundamental tenets is that this world and the life in it can be improved, and that it is our duty to try to improve it, socially, culturally, and politically. The humanist goal must therefore be, not Technocracy, nor Theocracy, not the omnipotent and authoritarian State, nor the Welfare State, nor the Consumption Economy, but the Fulfilment Society. By this I mean a society organized in such a way as to give the greatest number of people the fullest opportunities of realizing their potentialities -- of achievement and enjoyment, morality and community. It will do so by providing opportunities for education, for adventure and achievement, for cooperating in worthwhile projects, for meditation and withdrawal, for self-development and unselfish action.

Above all, a humanist religion will uphold the ideal of quality, against the assaults of mere quantity, of richness and variety against drabness and monotony, and of active open and continuous development, personal, social, and evolutionary, as against static self-complacency or unreal millenary fanaticism.

 

[Jack Hectorman]

Welcome to CF!

You're right, secular humanism is a religion, in that it has a set of core values and a worldview that makes it function exactly like any officially organized religion, but without a diety, other than mankind. If we examine secular humanism, we find elements of the ideology that roughly equate to creation narratives, a purity of original conditions, a fall from grace, the need for repentence, the possibility of redemption, etc., etc., etc. The truth is, mankind is hard-wired for religion, we can't make sense of the world without it. Or - if people object to the word itself - an ideology with narratives, rule and rituals, etc. that functions exactly like a religion.

Hello mark and thank you for the welcome, much appreciated.

I also appreciate your excellent comments up there, you added some very important elements that exist within Secular Humanism that I had forgotten about.

I thought that article you posted was a gripping read and I read every word and stuck the url in my Apologetics Folder for future use.

Cheers.

♫♫

 

[Milk-Drops]

So do you guys recognize any difference between philosophy and religion? Because all philosophy is religion for the same reason as secular humanism is.

 

[Vaccine]

The truth is, mankind is hard-wired for religion, we can't make sense of the world without it.

[MENTION=68276]mark[/MENTION] Quoted for truth!!
[MENTION=96568]Jack Hectorman[/MENTION] Welcome to CF! Well said:

In light of all that, my view is: If it looks like a duck, waddles like a duck, swims like a duck, and quacks like a duck, then so far as I am concerned, it is a duck. LOL. Secular Humanism is a faith-based religion.

 

[Mike S]

So do you guys recognize any difference between philosophy and religion? Because all philosophy is religion for the same reason as secular humanism is.

There's considerable overlap, isn't there? I don't think it's important to me that we draw hard and fast distinctions between philosophy and religion, but it seems important to some who consider themselves humanists. There are times they insist humanism IS a religion, and other times when they insist it ISN'T. The Supreme Court decisions I referenced reflect that.

 

[Vaccine]

So do you guys recognize any difference between philosophy and religion? Because all philosophy is religion for the same reason as secular humanism is.

It's my understanding prior to Kant or Nietzsche, theism was the queen and philosophy was it's handmaiden. Philosophy was there to serve theism. Unfortunately, nowadays I think atheism is seen as interchangeable with theism as far as being in control of philosophy. I think of it this way, from theism (or atheism if you wish) flows philosophy, from philosophy flows religion. Mark makes a good point about at times humanism IS considered a religion and at times it ISN'T. Maybe it isn't exactly "organized" the way other religion are, but secular humanism looks like religion and acts like religion. If we draw a hard line excluding secular humanism as a religion that line would also include anyone who considers themselves a follower of Jesus but doesn't belong to any "organized" religion.

 

[Jack Hectorman]

@Jack Hectorman Welcome to CF! Well said:

Thanks Vaccine and also thanks for the welcome, I appreciate it.

♫

 

[Milk-Drops]

So do you guys recognize any difference between philosophy and religion? Because all philosophy is religion for the same reason as secular humanism is.

There's considerable overlap, isn't there? I don't think it's important to me that we draw hard and fast distinctions between philosophy and religion, but it seems important to some who consider themselves humanists. There are times they insist humanism IS a religion, and other times when they insist it ISN'T. The Supreme Court decisions I referenced reflect that.

Stop saying they, and give me real names.

 

[Milk-Drops]

It's my understanding prior to Kant or Nietzsche, theism was the queen and philosophy was it's handmaiden. Philosophy was there to serve theism.

This would seem the case if you are coming from a euro-centric view point. However eastern philosophers were vastly different from European philosophers.

Unfortunately, nowadays I think atheism is seen as interchangeable with theism as far as being in control of philosophy.

This really isn't the case considering that the majority of philosophy has little to do with the existence of God at all, but more to do with the ideals of what is the purpose of man. Also there is more than just atheism and theism when it comes to spiritual ideas on philosophy. Igtheism, polytheism, Agnosticism, Pantheism, etc. are just a few other points of view a person can take.

I think of it this way, from theism (or atheism if you wish) flows philosophy, from philosophy flows religion.

Only if you follow philosophies that sprout from religious study. A lot of popular philosophers in western studies are remembered because they were religious people. However, when we expand our outlook and include the Greek, Roman, and eastern philosophers, we quickly find that many didn't really spend much time on religious question. Confucius is a really good example of this. The Tao De Ching when read outside the religious culture is another.

Mark makes a good point about at times humanism IS considered a religion and at times it ISN'T. Maybe it isn't exactly "organized" the way other religion are, but secular humanism looks like religion and acts like religion. If we draw a hard line excluding secular humanism as a religion that line would also include anyone who considers themselves a follower of Jesus but doesn't belong to any "organized" religion.

I'll just point out that I don't see how a group of rules and ideas on how to ethically treat society is the same as the idea that God came down in the flesh and died for people, and now offers people everlasting life in exchange for worshiping/following him.

 

[Mike S]

So do you guys recognize any difference between philosophy and religion? Because all philosophy is religion for the same reason as secular humanism is.

There's considerable overlap, isn't there? I don't think it's important to me that we draw hard and fast distinctions between philosophy and religion, but it seems important to some who consider themselves humanists. There are times they insist humanism IS a religion, and other times when they insist it ISN'T. The Supreme Court decisions I referenced reflect that.

Stop saying they, and give me real names.

Wow! A mini dictator with a bad attitude giving orders. LOL

 

[Vaccine]

This really isn't the case considering that the majority of philosophy has little to do with the existence of God at all, but more to do with the ideals of what is the purpose of man.

If God doesn't exist mans only purpose is survival. I can't see the point in discussing any "purpose" beyond survival.

If we have a foundation, a belief in God (doesn't have to be the one described in the bible), for our philosophy we can build on that and discuss polytheism, Agnosticism, Pantheism, the trinity, etc.

I'll just point out that I don't see how a group of rules and ideas on how to ethically treat society is the same as the idea that God came down in the flesh and died for people, and now offers people everlasting life in exchange for worshiping/following him.

You had asked if we "recognize any difference between philosophy and religion?" I was pointing what I believe to be the difference between religion - the rules of Methodist, Catholic, Lutheran, etc, and philosophy -the most basic beliefs. Your quote above is the most basic beliefs of humanism and (roughly) the most basic beliefs of Christianity.

 

[Milk-Drops]

If God doesn't exist mans only purpose is survival. I can't see the point in discussing any "purpose" beyond survival.

Once survival is taken care of, new tasks are able to be taken on. Most philosophers are products of times and situations of wealth and opportunity. When you say you don't see the point after survival, I would like to point out that society itself brings new problems when it comes to social rules and new purposes that need to be addressed.

 

[Vaccine]

Do you believe life was an accident, or intentional?

 

[Milk-Drops]

Do you believe life was an accident, or intentional?

Neither. I think it just is. Accident would imply that it was suposed to be something else, so I wouldn't choose that. Intentional? Why? I prefer a more zen outlook because it makes more sense to me.

 

[Vaccine]

Accident would imply that it was suposed to be something else, so I wouldn't choose that.

thanks. I think I understand. Thats all I was getting at, determining the meaning of an accident can be extremely subjective. But if I understand your position it is somewhere in between, life just is.