Separating the Men from the Boys

[elijah23]

Many people can skillfully argue a theological point. How many of these people have made the effort to repent of their sin, though?

 

[Alabaster]

If the 'theologian' is born again, he/she has done so.

 

[theophilus3213]

If the 'theologian' is born again, he/she has done so.

I have to disagree with you on this one. there are many so called 'theologians' that believe that they can do anything that they please and still go to heaven! They believe that any and all sins that they may commit will automatically be forgiven them without any need to confess or turn from them. (i.e. repent.) This is what many baptists beleive. These misguided people believe that all of thier sins; both past present and future were forgiven them when Jesus died on the cross 2000 years ago. and that their is absolutely nothing that is required of them for them to be saved except to believe that Jesus died on the cross for thier sins and rose again the third day. Those who believe such things see no need to repent. As a result, when they die they will end up in Hell! For what these fools do not realise is that repentance is a conditon for forgiveness. consider the following:

4. Must Repent: i.e. turn from your sin's. being sincere in you willingness to forsake all that displease's God.

A. Isa 55:6-7
Seek the LORD while He may be found, call upon Him while He is near. 7
Let the wicked forsake his way, and the unrighteous man his thoughts; let him
return to the LORD, and He will have mercy on him; and to our God, for He will
abundantly pardon. (NKJ)
A.
Isa 1:16-18 16 "Wash yourselves, make yourselves clean; put away the evil of your doings from before My eyes. Cease to do evil, 17 Learn to do good; seek justice, rebuke the oppressor; defend the fatherless, plead for the widow. 18 "Come now, and let us reason together," says the LORD, "Though your sins are like scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they are red like crimson, they shall be as wool. (NKJ)

Note that repentance come's before forgiveness.

In Acts 8 Simon sinned. What was Peter's remedy?

1. Told Simon his sin (v.20-21)

2. Told Simon to "repent therefore of this your wickedness, and pray God if perhaps the thought of your heart MAY be forgiven you.(V.22)

3. Peter end's by stating root sin's that separated Simon from God. (i.e. bitterness and iniquity v.23)

Jesus came to call people to repentance:

Mt 9:13 "But go and learn what this means: `I desire mercy and not
sacrifice.' For I did not come to call the righteous, but sinners, to
repentance." (NKJ)

Mk 2:17 When Jesus heard it, He said to them, "Those who are well
have no need of a physician, but those who are sick. I did not come to call the
righteous, but sinners, to repentance." (NKJ)

Lk 5:32 "I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners, to
repentance." (NKJ)

Lk 24:46-47 46 Then He said to them, "Thus it is written, and thus
it was necessary for the Christ to suffer and to rise from the dead the third
day, 47 "and that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in
His name to all nations, beginning at Jerusalem. (NKJ)

Acts 3:26 "To you first, God, having raised up His Servant Jesus,
sent Him to bless you, in turning away every one of you from your
iniquities." (NKJ)

The 1st word's Jesus preached after His 40 day fast and temptation was "Repent, for the Kingdom of heaven is at hand". (Mt 4:17,Mk 1:15)
The apostles called people to repentance:


Acts 2:38-39 38 Then Peter said to them, "Repent, and let every
one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins;
and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. 39 "For the promise
is to you and to your children, and to all who are afar off, as many as the
Lord our God will call." (NKJ)

(cont.)

 

[theophilus3213]

(cont)

Acts 3:19 "Repent therefore
and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, so that times of refreshing
may come from the presence of the Lord, (NKJ) (Note: repentance is essential
for forgiveness!)

Acts 5:31 "Him God has exalted to His right hand to be Prince and
Savior, to give repentance to Israel and forgiveness of sins. (NKJ)

(Please note that repentance comes first; than forgiveness of sins.)

Acts 11:18 When they heard these things they became silent; and they
glorified God, saying, "Then God has also granted to the Gentiles repentance
to life." (NKJ)

Acts 14:15 and saying, "Men, why are you doing these things? We
also are men with the same nature as you, and preach to you that you should
turn from these useless things to the living God, who made the heaven, the
earth, the sea, and all things that are in them, (NKJ)

Acts 17:30 "Truly, these times of ignorance God overlooked, but
now commands all men everywhere to repent, (NKJ)

Here we see that repentance is commanded by God! Thus it is not optional!

Acts 20:21 "testifying to Jews, and also to Greeks, repentance
toward God and faith toward our Lord Jesus Christ. (NKJ)

Acts 26:17-18 17 `I will deliver you from the Jewish people, as well as
from the Gentiles, to whom I now send you, 18 `to open their eyes, in order to
turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan to God, that they
may receive forgiveness of sins and an inheritance among those who are
sanctified by faith in Me.' (NKJ)

Acts 26:20 "but declared first to those in Damascus and in
Jerusalem, and throughout all the region of Judea, and then to the Gentiles,
that they should repent, turn to God, and do works befitting repentance. (NKJ)

II Pet 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some count
slackness, but is long-suffering toward us, not willing that any should perish
but that all should come to repentance. (NKJ)

Heb 6:1 Therefore, leaving the discussion of the elementary principles
of Christ, let us go on to perfection, not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works and of faith
toward God, (NKJ)

This passage make's it clear that repentance is:

1. An elementary principle of Christ.
2. A part of the foundation of the faith. (i.e. salvation)

So when we read all other scripture's that deal
with salvation, (i.e. Rom 10:9-11, Eph 2:8-10, I Cor 15:1-11, Lk 18:13, etc.)
we must understand that repentance, as a necessary step of salvation, is
already understood by the people who received those writing's. (I.e. the
Roman's, Ephesians, Corinthian's, etc.) They understood that repentance is a standard part of the gospel that the apostle's taught. Therefore it was a
standard part of the gospel that they taught other's. Therefore it was not
necessary for the apostle's to repeat in their epistle's these fundamental
truth's. For it was clearly taught to them when Paul, Peter, and other's 1st
founded the church’s in those region's.

And it is essential that we come to understand these truth's as well!

Shalom

 

[Theofilus]

If the 'theologian' is born again, he/she has done so.

I have to disagree with you on this one. there are many so called 'theologians' that believe that they can do anything that they please and still go to heaven!

Then they are not born again. I see no reason to disagree with Alabaster, if you read her whole post. She's not saying that all theologians are born again or that all theologians have repented. But there is not one requirement for theologians to be saved and another requirement for the rest of us. If a theologian has repented of his sins and is born again, then he is just as much saved as anyone else who has done the same.

 

[Nathan]

Then they are not born again. I see no reason to disagree with Alabaster, if you read her whole post. She's not saying that all theologians are born again or that all theologians have repented. But there is not one requirement for theologians to be saved and another requirement for the rest of us. If a theologian has repented of his sins and is born again, then he is just as much saved as anyone else who has done the same.

:yes Yep. Alabaster is right on this one. It really is that simple. Either you have repented or you have not.

The tricky part of it is there are some who have repented, and then turned away from Him. But, if we dissect their actions, they have actually "turned" the opposite direction and are walking away from Christ at that point; however that does not mean that they were never born again.

Therefore, while the simplicity of the matter is 'theologians' can be "born again", there are undoubtedly some that are prophesied to have 'denied their Master', and so doing have turned away from repentance.

But thats the flip side. The original question seems to ask if the theologians have "made" that turn, and the fact is one cannot be born again till he does. What strikes me as odd though, is the fact the original question states "effort". I might be accused of mincing words here, but there is no effort involved in repentance. Either you do...or you don't.

There is no 'half way'. The nature of repentance is a direct opposite of the way you were going before. So there is no 'in-between' when dealing with repentance.

 

[Elijah674]

I have to disagree with you on this one. there are many so called 'theologians' that believe that they can do anything that they please and still go to heaven! They believe that any and all sins that they may commit will automatically be forgiven them without any need to confess or turn from them. (i.e. repent.) This is what many baptists beleive. These misguided people believe that all of thier sins; both past present and future were forgiven them when Jesus died on the cross 2000 years ago. and that their is absolutely nothing that is required of them for them to be saved except to believe that Jesus died on the cross for thier sins and rose again the third day. Those who believe such things see no need to repent. As a result, when they die they will end up in Hell! For what these fools do not realise is that repentance is a conditon for forgiveness. consider the following:

4. Must Repent: i.e. turn from your sin's. being sincere in you willingness to forsake all that displease's God.

A. Isa 55:6-7
Seek the LORD while He may be found, call upon Him while He is near. 7
Let the wicked forsake his way, and the unrighteous man his thoughts; let him
return to the LORD, and He will have mercy on him; and to our God, for He will
abundantly pardon. (NKJ)
A.
Isa 1:16-18 16 "Wash yourselves, make yourselves clean; put away the evil of your doings from before My eyes. Cease to do evil, 17 Learn to do good; seek justice, rebuke the oppressor; defend the fatherless, plead for the widow. 18 "Come now, and let us reason together," says the LORD, "Though your sins are like scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they are red like crimson, they shall be as wool. (NKJ)

Note that repentance come's before forgiveness.

In Acts 8 Simon sinned. What was Peter's remedy?

1. Told Simon his sin (v.20-21)

2. Told Simon to "repent therefore of this your wickedness, and pray God if perhaps the thought of your heart MAY be forgiven you.(V.22)

3. Peter end's by stating root sin's that separated Simon from God. (i.e. bitterness and iniquity v.23)

Jesus came to call people to repentance:

Mt 9:13 "But go and learn what this means: `I desire mercy and not
sacrifice.' For I did not come to call the righteous, but sinners, to
repentance." (NKJ)

Mk 2:17 When Jesus heard it, He said to them, "Those who are well
have no need of a physician, but those who are sick. I did not come to call the
righteous, but sinners, to repentance." (NKJ)

Lk 5:32 "I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners, to
repentance." (NKJ)

Lk 24:46-47 46 Then He said to them, "Thus it is written, and thus
it was necessary for the Christ to suffer and to rise from the dead the third
day, 47 "and that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in
His name to all nations, beginning at Jerusalem. (NKJ)

Acts 3:26 "To you first, God, having raised up His Servant Jesus,
sent Him to bless you, in turning away every one of you from your
iniquities." (NKJ)

The 1st word's Jesus preached after His 40 day fast and temptation was "Repent, for the Kingdom of heaven is at hand". (Mt 4:17,Mk 1:15)
The apostles called people to repentance:


Acts 2:38-39 38 Then Peter said to them, "Repent, and let every
one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins;
and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. 39 "For the promise
is to you and to your children, and to all who are afar off, as many as the
Lord our God will call." (NKJ)

(cont.)

(I want to dedicate this also 'as setting apart for a purpose' for another forum member called Jeff on another site)

Very good Truth in that posting. First God tried Love which did not do much good He tel's us in Isa. 5. And verse 4 says what [more] could be done that was not done?? And still He found & finds 'WILD' Rev. 17:1-5 stuff! Read the boards! (All the boards!) Daily News +!

OK: Men?? They are in hiding in John 20:19 for fear of what today? missing emotion, excitement, noise.. you know SPORTS! (but sure Lord, I LOVE YOU they holler & shout in church!) And then we see in Isa. 3:8-12 that the church's are ruined because of their 'tongues' and their 'doings are against the Lord, to provoke the eyes of His Glory +++ As for my people, (the boy's?) children are their oppressors, [and women rule over them. .. and cause them to err, and destroy the way of thy paths.]


And today?? Where are the men?? TV & Sports +, huh! And the above verses? Go visit the Pentacostal women & ministers conventions if you think that God missed the Isa. repeated junk back then! Eccl. 3:15, or ALL of the 'winds' of Jude that are seen in the todays Matt. 7's Broadway ones! And many of your sun. morning TV 'w'orship stuff with the female population 'dress attire' which they look like they are in a 'show all womens club' And Deut. 22:5? Lord, are you kidding us! And DOCTRINES???


OK: What God had done, doesl not work for [most] He Documented! (Isa. 5:4) The welfare of OSAS just says in bottom/lime the more God gives the more these ones ones effortlessly want & demand! I am saved Lord, I am saved they teach!! 2 Peter 2:19

So His Loving next 'last page' on His Prophesied agenda to try to have professed 'REAL MEN' come forward, will be His last resort of LOVE by causing 'REAL' FEAR as in Jude 1:22-23 & Isa. 5:4 ON! And it does NOT DO BUT VERY LITTLE GOOD for these ones who had already rejected His approach of Loving compassion. (see old Israel!) And again, look at the trash/heaps of these calling themselves 'c'hristian, and by using only His Words alone.. of today! change their known false doctrines? NO WAY!)

So the FEAR will be for the world's ones who have never had the opportunity that all of these mature rejectors have compassionately had, and rejected, these Lukewarm of Rev. 3:16. So the COLD 'fisherman' will be the ones that God will use to finish [His work]! Work?? we are Saved by 'belive'ism' alone is tossed out by these ones who He said.. 'THE ONES WHO LOVE MOST ARE THE ONES WHO WERE FORGIVEN THE MOST' And their LOVING WORKS will be needed in this time of Matt. 24:21! (most of these other Matt. 10:15 ones are now past/tense!)

And from boy's to men? All of these were NO DOUBT men who followed Christ out of her my people! Rev. 18:4 And the effect of full maturity of both direction of Eternally Saved or maturely Eternally LOST are seen in Eze. 9 as we speak, and in this excelerating time! And there are just the TWO CLASS DOCUMENTED HERE!


--Elijah

 

[Alabaster]

Then they are not born again. I see no reason to disagree with Alabaster, if you read her whole post. She's not saying that all theologians are born again or that all theologians have repented. But there is not one requirement for theologians to be saved and another requirement for the rest of us. If a theologian has repented of his sins and is born again, then he is just as much saved as anyone else who has done the same.

Exactly, and thanks. this thread's question was easy peasy. Why do people love to complicate things? (Who in the world knows what Elijah674 is saying? ROFL!)

 

[childeye]

Many people can skillfully argue a theological point. How many of these people have made the effort to repent of their sin, though?

You have raised the opportunity to argue skillfully, a theological point. What eaxctly is sin, an action, or a condition of corruption existing in mankind which man then acts out of? Or both? What does Jesus mean in John 8:32-34 where he says the Truth will set you Free from the slavery of sin? Why does Paul say sin is empowered by the law? Why is it condemned in the flesh? Why in Romans 7:20 does Paul say it is not him who sins since he sins unwillingly? These are only some of the questions you raised with this one little word, "sin". To understand what sin is will then define what is actual repentance.

I do not intend to complicate matters, but otherwise we could just say that repenting means, be good. If this were the case, what is the gospel referring to when Jesus says he came to set the prisoners free, give sight to the blind and make the seeing bind, to make valleys into mountains and mountains into valleys? Why all the parables about a Kingdom of God?

 

[Mike]

I've always understood it that "theology" is defined as "the study of God and God's relation to the world". With that, I've maintained that all Christians are theologians. Even in the case where a Christian doesn't actively and deeply study scripture, he can seek to know Him through his experience and revelation. Of course, we should be in the Word. To know His Word is to better know Him.

Some Christians don't have the capacity that others do to grow in knowledge, but I don't think this makes them lesser theologians. It seems a natural desire that's placed on the heart of anyone who is His to seek Him and know Him more. it seems impossible for someone who has come to know Him to not want to know Him more, unless they are apostate. I find this amazing to contemplate. God is irresistible in that regard, from my perspective.

So I would say that all born-again Christians are theologians, but not all theologians are Christians or born-again.

 

[Elijah674]

You have raised the opportunity to argue skillfully, a theological point. What eaxctly is sin, an action, or a condition of corruption existing in mankind which man then acts out of? Or both? What does Jesus mean in John 8:32-34 where he says the Truth will set you Free from the slavery of sin? Why does Paul say sin is empowered by the law? Why is it condemned in the flesh? Why in Romans 7:20 does Paul say it is not him who sins since he sins unwillingly? These are only some of the questions you raised with this one little word, "sin". To understand what sin is will then define what is actual repentance.

I do not intend to complicate matters, but otherwise we could just say that repenting means, be good. If this were the case, what is the gospel referring to when Jesus says he came to set the prisoners free, give sight to the blind and make the seeing bind, to make valleys into mountains and mountains into valleys? Why all the parables about a Kingdom of God?

Hi, see God's Word of sin identified in 1 John 3:4 & then James 1:15 for the answer for your question. Then the Finished Ending.;)

So the 'boy's' must Mature, huh? One way or the other.

--Elijah

 

[l'Chante]

So I would say that all born-again Christians are theologians, but not all theologians are Christians or born-again.

It is sad but true, Mike. I have realised that many know the Book but not the Author. They quote scripture like there is no tomorrow, but patience, love, respect and empathy doesn’t feature in their lives. The most basic of fruit just isn’t there.