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Seventy Weeks Are Determined Upon Thy People!

So you see, Antichrist comes in and causes the renewed Temple and sacrifices to cease. This makes senese.
It certainly makes sence if you consider that Daniel's prophecy was first fulfilled with Antiochus. He is your prototype "antichrist".

http://virtualreligion.net/iho/antioch.html

and:
The prophetic writings of Danielâ€â€as well as other Hebrew prophets (e.g., Ezekiel 26-29, the King and Prince of Tyrus; Isaiah 14, the King of Babylon) skillfully deploy this metaphorical instrument to convey both a prototype past, as well as an archetype future, of the Almighty’s antithesis.

Even so, the metamorphosis of the figure, Antiochus Epiphanes IV, into the one who will with insolence "confirm a covenant with the many" (Daniel 9:27) – also known as the "the Coming Prince" (i.e., "the prince who is to come" – Daniel 9:26) – will do so as the "prince of the covenant" – for "after the league is made with him (i.e., "the prince of the covenant"), he shall act deceitfully, for he shall come up and become strong with a small number of people" (Daniel 11:22-23). The usurpation of Israel’s high priest by Antiochus Epiphanes IVâ€â€in an effort to Hellenize the Jewsâ€â€eventually brought the "God Manifest-Madman" directly to the temple where the "abomination of desolation" in the erection of the altar to Zeus and the offering of swine occurred.

"The reference to the "prince of the covenant" prophesies the murder of the (Jewish) high priest Onias, which was ordered by Antiochus in 172 B.C., and indicates the troublesome times of his reign. The high priest bore the title "prince of the covenant" because he was de facto the head of the theocracy at that time. In 11:28 and 11:32 (Daniel) the "covenant" is used for the Jewish state." (John Walvoord, Daniel the Key to Prophetic Revelation, Moody, p. 265; see Note 5 below)
http://www.buzzle.com/editorials/1-28-2006-87569.asp

one more:

An evil ruler arises
Eventually the prophecy describes a Seleucid ruler named Antiochus IV, also known as Antiochus Epiphanes. Daniel 11:21 states, "And in his [Seleucus IV's] place shall arise a vile person, to whom they will not give the honor of royalty." Most Syrian officials, tired of the excesses of the Seleucid rulers, backed the usurper Heliodorus, who had poisoned the previous king.

"But," the prophecy explains of Antiochus, "he shall come in peaceably, and seize the kingdom by intrigue" (verse 21). By a show of what some historians have called "Roman manners" and a great deal of flattery, he enlisted the aid of neighboring King Eumenes II of Pergamum and officials at home in forcing out Heliodorus and obtaining the throne in 175 B.C. The next verse explains that all those who opposed Antiochus would be swept away and broken-and they were....

... As verses 23-24 show, elements of the Jewish leadership made a "league," a treaty or similar agreement, with Antiochus, and at first he entered "peaceably" into the Holy Land with only a small force.

What did this league, or covenant, entail? The apocryphal book of 1 Maccabees, although not Scripture, provides us with history of the period. "In those days went there out of Israel wicked men, who persuaded many, saying, Let us go and make a covenant with the heathen that are round about us ..." (1 Maccabees 1:11, KJV)....

... Then notice what was to happen in 168 B.C. after the king defeated Egypt: "While returning to his land with great riches, his heart shall be moved against the holy covenant; so he shall do damage and return to his own land" (verse 28).

As 1 Maccabees records, he set himself against the Jews, massacred many of them and plundered the temple at Jerusalem before returning to Syria (1 Maccabees 1:20-28).
http://www.gnmagazine.org/issues/gn38/abomination.htm
 
JM said:
Before anyone starts in with the Greek, lets see hear about your background and degrees in Greek...if you don't have the papers to post, lets keep it in English.

As for Christ confirming a covenant...correct. Was it for a week/seven years? Nope.

Isa 28:15 Because ye have said, We have made a covenant with death, and with hell are we at agreement; when the overflowing scourge shall pass through, it shall not come unto us: for we have made lies our refuge, and under falsehood have we hid ourselves:

The covenant was made with antichrist. Posting past a post without answering it is simply drowning it out, it doesn't deal with the arugments. If the antichrist simply confirms or strengthens a pre-existing covenant still works. Many nations have covenants and many nations will make new covenants with Israel. The antichrist is will "cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease." A Temple must exist as the Bible states.

:robot:

Prophecies of a Millennial Temple:
Joel 3:18

Isaiah 2:3

Isaiah 60:13

Daniel 9:24

Haggai 2:7,9


Prophecies of animal sacrifices in the future Temple:
Isaiah 56:6,7

Isaiah 60:7

Jeremiah 33:18

Zechariah 14:16-21


Rom. 11:11-12
I say then, Have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but rather through their fall (sin/transgression) salvation is (now offered) come unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy. Now if the fall of them be the riches of the world, and the diminishing of them the riches of the Gentiles; how much more their fulness?

11:15 For if the casting away of them be the reconciling of the world, what shall the receiving of them be, but life from the dead?

11:25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in. (the Body of Christ/the Church) 11:26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob: 11:27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins. see Hos. 2:14-23

Quote: Gaebelien points out that the glory of the Lord returns to this temple and makes His dwelling place there (Eze. 43:1-6). The same "glory" which Ezekiel saw departing from Solomon's Temple at the time of Judah's apostasy (Eze. 9:3; 10:4, 18; 11:22-23; cf. 43: 1-6). However, the glory cloud that left Solomon's temple did not return to the temple built by the Jewish remnant that returned to the land from Babylon. No glory filled that house as it does in the one described by Ezekiel. And significantly, unlike the temple built after the Babylonian captivity, Ezekiel's temple describes no high priests presiding over its worship, nor can the healing waters that flow from this temple in any way be applied to the restored temple built by the returned Babylonian remnant.

"For thus says the Lord, 'David shall never lack a man to sit on the throne of the house of Israel; and the Levitical priests shall never lack a man before Me to offer burnt offerings, to burn grain offerings, and to prepare sacrifices continually '" (Jer 33:17-18). "Thus says the Lord, 'If you can break My covenant for the day, and My covenant for the night, so that day and night will not be at their appointed time, then My covenant may also be broken with David My servant that he shall not have a son to reign on his throne, and with the Levitical priests, My ministers. 'As the host of heaven cannot be counted, and the sand of the sea cannot be measured, so I will multiply the descendants of David My servant and the Levites who minister to Me' " (Jer 33:20-22).

No where in plain Scripture is it taught that Jesus Christ Himself is now the fulfillment of the Temple, it does not reveal Him to be its fulfillment now during the present time or in the Millennial period to come. Jesus Christ is the fulfillment in the eternal state which is found only in the future, Replacement/Reformed theology is in error on this point.

After Christ's Millennial reign on earth God will create a New Heaven and a New Earth, and it is found in Scripture that the New Jerusalem 'comes down' out of heaven in Rev. 21. We read in Revelations that in this Holy City there is "no temple" (sanctuary) because "the Lord God, the Almighty, and the Lamb (Jesus Christ) are its temple" (sanctuary, Rev. 21:22-23).

I understand the allegorical method employed, I don’t deny it’s merits and for the record I’m not a wooden/iron literalist either. It’s not my intention to change your theological opinion, I know how hard it is to change mine, I just want to encourage study so you will at least see the merits in the literal understanding of the millennium and the prophecies connected to it. After all, it was the understanding of the early Church until the time of Augustine.

As we read in Eze. 40 – 46 a revelation is given us, similar to the revelation given to ‘Moses fro the Tabernacle, and to David for the Temple.’ JND Synopsis of the Bible Understanding Scripture in a plain sense, we must believe that God will re-establish His Temple Sanctuary and the Sacrificial system during the millennium. The details given in the Word of God would make the Temple look like this:

[removed pic]

A picture can be found in the Companion Bible by E. W. Bullinger. See Appendix 88

Ezekiel is simply too exact to be understood in the ‘spiritual’ sense. In 2 Thess. 2:3-4 the apostle Paul tells us about the anti-Christ who ‘sitteth in the Temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.’ If anti-Christ is to be seated in the Temple, there has to be a Temple.

The issue of animal Sacrifices is a hard issue, but details are given in Eze. 40:39 – 42 and 43:18 – 46:24. It’s important to note, these animal Sacrifices are clearly different then those found in the Mosaic system with a few elements of the Mosaic system remaining. One theologian writes, ‘Doubtless these offerings will be memorial, looking back to the cross, as the offering under the old covenant were anticipatory, looking forward to the cross.’ We know that ‘it is not possible that the blood of bulls and goats should take away sins,’ Heb. 10:3 so if you believe different pls tell us what atonement means to you? Just as the Christian celebrates the Lord’s Supper as a memorial so will the Jewish nation have there’s in the context of the Jewish revelation and experience along Jewish characteristics.

Lets not forget the mention of the observance of the Sabbath! Isa. 66:20 – 23 reads, ‘the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me…’ and ‘…from one Sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me…’ You can’t have your cake and eat it to. To spiritualize the millennium means everything in the Book of Revelations up to chpt. 21 has already happened, and we are now living in a golden millennial age, where the meek have inherited the new heavens and the new earth.

In Ezekiel 43:20, 26; 45:15, 17 we find some of the offerings presented during the Millennium, taking into consideration all that we've posted, I did a little research on the word 'atonement.' It means 'covering' and never means the putting away of sins. The OT sacrifices produced an outward ceremonial cleaness, a ritual purification on the people which allowed them to draw near as worshippers of God. We find sacrifices even made for inanimate things Ex. 29:37, no remission of sins can be had for inanimate things. Atonement in this day and age of theology has a deeper meaning then it did in the OT sense of the word, for instance, describing the work of Christ on the cross. The work of Christ has more of a reconciliation to God in mind (Rom. 5:11). The passages in Hebrews do not rule out any sacrificial ceremony in the future, but they insist that no future offerings can deal with sins any more then they did in the past.

So you see, Antichrist comes in and causes the renewed Temple and sacrifices to cease. This makes senese.

Peace,

jm

How can such a temple be holy to sacrifce in it and dispose of Jesus? How can it be defiled when it is with God?

Hebrews 8
2: a minister in the sanctuary and the true tent which is set up not by man but by the Lord.

You have one ambiguos verse out of context. There is no hint of a covenant with the anti-Christ anywhere else. Christ confirms a covenant and he breaks one.


Hebrews 10
9: then he added, "Lo, I have come to do thy will." He abolishes the first in order to establish the second.
10: And by that will we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.


24: and when he had given thanks, he broke it, and said, "This is my body which is for you. Do this in remembrance of me."
25: In the same way also the cup, after supper, saying, "This cup is the new covenant in my blood. Do this, as often as you drink it, in remembrance of me."
26: For as often as you eat this bread and drink the cup, you proclaim the Lord's death until he comes

If he was not confirming a covenant for a short time then why do we wait for him to come?

If Christ where here in the same sense as he was then why did Christ's followers feast?
Luke 5

3: And they said to him, "The disciples of John fast often and offer prayers, and so do the disciples of the Pharisees, but yours eat and drink."
34: And Jesus said to them, "Can you make wedding guests fast while the bridegroom is with them?
35: The days will come, when the bridegroom is taken away from them, and then they will fast in those days."

Is it so hard to find Christ making and breaking covenants? No, it is easy. Who is this?

Zech 11
10: And I took my staff Grace, and I broke it, annulling the covenant which I had made with all the peoples.
11: So it was annulled on that day, and the traffickers in the sheep, who were watching me, knew that it was the word of the LORD.
12: Then I said to them, "If it seems right to you, give me my wages; but if not, keep them." And they weighed out as my wages thirty shekels of silver.
13: Then the LORD said to me, "Cast it into the treasury" -- the lordly price at which I was paid off by them. So I took the thirty shekels of silver and cast them into the treasury in the house of the LORD.

Christ is central to all covenants from God. The removal of one and the offer of another. He was also the fruit of the unbreakable covenant , the root of Jesse. And in Daniel 27 , in the defining moment of our faith, Christ's sacrifice for us for all eternity and Daniel fails to mention it for the eternal irrelavence of the anti-Christ? We also find no other reference.
 
nol said:
gwynedd1,

Daniel 12

2: And many of those who sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

Matt 27

50: And Jesus cried again with a loud voice and yielded up his spirit.
51: And behold, the curtain of the temple was torn in two, from top to bottom; and the earth shook, and the rocks were split;
52: the tombs also were opened, and many bodies of the saints who had fallen asleep were raised,
53: and coming out of the tombs after his resurrection they went into the holy city and appeared to many.

This does not compute- how can it be that some of the saints were awakening to shame and everlasting shame?

Where does it say the saints went to everlasting contempt? The prophesy of Daniel also spoke of those that reject Christ or did not do according to faith. Daniel 12 was very much fulfilled in 70 AD and it spoke of a single nation.

I said very little so work it out for yourself in the scripture.
 
... And in Daniel 27 , in the defining moment of our faith, Christ's sacrifice for us for all eternity and Daniel fails to mention it for the eternal irrelavence of the anti-Christ? We also find no other reference.
Hi gwynedd1,

Read my post above. No one can properly understand Daniel's prophecies unless they understand what happened between Antiochus and the Jews in Jerusalem.

Gotta read the two Maccabees books.
 
Hi JM,

Isaiah 28:14 (KJV)
14 Wherefore hear the word of the LORD, ye scornful men, that rule this people which is in Jerusalem.
Isaiah 28:15 (KJV)
15 Because ye have said, We have made a covenant with death, and with hell are we at agreement; when the overflowing scourge shall pass through, it shall not come unto us: for we have made lies our refuge, and under falsehood have we hid ourselves:
Isaiah 28:16 (KJV)
16 Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD, Behold, I lay in Zion for a foundation a stone, a tried stone, a precious corner stone, a sure foundation: he that believeth shall not make haste.
Isaiah 28:17 (KJV)
17 Judgment also will I lay to the line, and righteousness to the plummet: and the hail shall sweep away the refuge of lies, and the waters shall overflow the hiding place.
Isaiah 28:18 (KJV)
18 And your covenant with death shall be disannulled, and your agreement with hell shall not stand; when the overflowing scourge shall pass through, then ye shall be trodden down by it.

This passage is stating the profound truth that salvation is in Christ alone. A person is either trusting in Christ or taking his/her 'chances' on their own self-centered view of an after-life. To apply this to the activities of the future Antichrist is to miss the point of this great truth which is applicable to many generations both Jewish and gentile (Romans 10:11,12).

A Scripture passage that demonstrates that there is not 7 years left but 3 1/2 is Revelation 12:5,6. From the time that Christ the First Fruits Wave offering is accepted (Lev.23:9-11; Jn.20:11-19) till the end of the 70th week is 1260 days (1/2 a week). These verses reveal that the 'gap' begins just after the resurrection in 30 AD.
 
vic said:
... And in Daniel 27 , in the defining moment of our faith, Christ's sacrifice for us for all eternity and Daniel fails to mention it for the eternal irrelavence of the anti-Christ? We also find no other reference.
Hi gwynedd1,

Read my post above. No one can properly understand Daniel's prophecies unless they understand what happened between Antiochus and the Jews in Jerusalem.

Gotta read the two Maccabees books.
Actually I have and I am aware of the Diadochi kingdoms and believe strongly that all of Daniel 11 was about them and specifically the houses of Selecuid and Ptolemy. Rome then makes desolate in Daniel 9:27 as well as Daniel 12.
 
Cool. 8-)

Rome then makes desolate in Daniel 9:27
I strongly believe the two "he's" in vs. 27 are the same. Under that assumption that it was Rome, what seven year covenant did they confirm with the people?
 
For background, I did the math, assuming the popular date for the decree and assuming a year is 360 days, 70-weeks of years, Danial's prophecy, ended 37AD.

However, there were several decrees so the starting date might be off. And, a year actually has slightly over 365 days. The ancient Hebrews would have had leap years to keep an accurate calender.

In any case, the time is long up.
 
vic said:
Cool. 8-)

Rome then makes desolate in Daniel 9:27
I strongly believe the two "he's" in vs. 27 are the same. Under that assumption that it was Rome, what seven year covenant did they confirm with the people?

Here is another translation.
http://www.bibleinsight.com/70p2.html

27 And he shall cause to prevail a great covenant one week.
And in the middle of the week he shall make cease sacrifice
and offering and upon an extremity abominations, a desolator
up until a complete destruction. And as decreed she shall
be poured forth on the desolator.

Again this is english ambiguity. The Revised standard also make clear there is he and one who comes. I think it is certainly Rome.


This was such an important even all of Zecharia 11 describes it.

1: Open your doors, O Lebanon, that the fire may devour your cedars!
2: Wail, O cypress, for the cedar has fallen, for the glorious trees are ruined! Wail, oaks of Bashan, for the thick forest has been felled!
3: Hark, the wail of the shepherds, for their glory is despoiled! Hark, the roar of the lions, for the jungle of the Jordan is laid waste!
4: Thus said the LORD my God: "Become shepherd of the flock doomed to slaughter.
5: Those who buy them slay them and go unpunished; and those who sell them say, `Blessed be the LORD, I have become rich'; and their own shepherds have no pity on them.
6: For I will no longer have pity on the inhabitants of this land, says the LORD. Lo, I will cause men to fall each into the hand of his shepherd, and each into the hand of his king; and they shall crush the earth, and I will deliver none from their hand."
7: So I became the shepherd of the flock doomed to be slain for those who trafficked in the sheep. And I took two staffs; one I named Grace, the other I named Union. And I tended the sheep.
8: In one month I destroyed the three shepherds. But I became impatient with them, and they also detested me.
9: So I said, "I will not be your shepherd. What is to die, let it die; what is to be destroyed, let it be destroyed; and let those that are left devour the flesh of one another."
10: And I took my staff Grace, and I broke it, annulling the covenant which I had made with all the peoples.
11: So it was annulled on that day, and the traffickers in the sheep, who were watching me, knew that it was the word of the LORD.
12: Then I said to them, "If it seems right to you, give me my wages; but if not, keep them." And they weighed out as my wages thirty shekels of silver.
13: Then the LORD said to me, "Cast it into the treasury" -- the lordly price at which I was paid off by them. So I took the thirty shekels of silver and cast them into the treasury in the house of the LORD.
14: Then I broke my second staff Union, annulling the brotherhood between Judah and Israel.
15: Then the LORD said to me, "Take once more the implements of a worthless shepherd.
16: For lo, I am raising up in the land a shepherd who does not care for the perishing, or seek the wandering, or heal the maimed, or nourish the sound, but devours the flesh of the fat ones, tearing off even their hoofs.
17: Woe to my worthless shepherd, who deserts the flock! May the sword smite his arm and his right eye! Let his arm be wholly withered, his right eye utterly blinded!"

"1: Open your doors, O Lebanon, that the fire may devour your cedars!"

You may find this interesting. The doors of the temple where made of cedars from Lebanon, also the door is recored to have opened mysteriously.

War of the Jews
Chapter 5
Book 6
[Nisan,] and at the ninth hour of the night, so great a light shone round the altar and the holy house, that it appeared to be bright day time; which lasted for half an hour. This light seemed to be a good sign to the unskillful, but was so interpreted by the sacred scribes, as to portend those events that followed immediately upon it. At the same festival also, a heifer, as she was led by the high priest to be sacrificed, brought forth a lamb in the midst of the temple. Moreover, the eastern gate of the inner (22) [court of the] temple, which was of brass, and vastly heavy, and had been with difficulty shut by twenty men, and rested upon a basis armed with iron, and had bolts fastened very deep into the firm floor, which was there made of one entire stone, was seen to be opened of its own accord about the sixth hour of the night.

Also interesting is this

In one month I destroyed the three shepherds. But I became impatient with them, and they also detested me.9: So I said, "I will not be your shepherd. What is to die, let it die; what is to be destroyed, let it be destroyed; and let those that are left devour the flesh of one another."

This records three factions and there infighting led them to destroy their provisions and thus everyone starved.
Book 5
chapter 1
4. And now there were three treacherous factions in the city, the one parted from the other. Eleazar and his party, that kept the sacred first-fruits, came against John in their cups. Those that were with John plundered the populace, and went out with zeal against Simon. This Simon had his supply of provisions from the city, in opposition to the seditious. When, therefore, John was assaulted on both sides, he made his men turn about, throwing his darts upon those citizens that came up against him, from the cloisters he had in his possession, while he opposed those that attacked him from the temple by his engines of war. And if at any time he was freed from those that were above him, which happened frequently, from their being drunk and tired, he sallied out with a great number upon Simon and his party; and this he did always in such parts of the city as he could come at, till he set on fire those houses that were full of corn, and of all other provisions. (4) The same thing was done by Simon, when, upon the other's retreat, he attacked the city also; as if they had, on purpose, done it to serve the Romans, by destroying what the city had laid up against the siege, and by thus cutting off the nerves of their own power. Accordingly, it so came to pass, that all the places that were about the temple were burnt down, and were become an intermediate desert space, ready for fighting on both sides of it; and that almost all that corn was burnt, which would have been sufficient for a siege of many years. So they were taken by the means of the famine, which it was impossible they should have been, unless they had thus prepared the way for it by this procedure.
 
I have a question concerning that site's "interpretation". It says it is a "Revised Translation", but who's revision is it? It doesn't "read" right.

This is the Revised Standard I'm familar with:

27: And he shall make a strong covenant with many for one week; and for half of the week he shall cause sacrifice and offering to cease; and upon the wing of abominations shall come one who makes desolate, until the decreed end is poured out on the desolator."

This is the New Revised Standard:

daniel 9:27 He shall make a strong covenant with many for one week, and for half of the week he shall make sacrifice and offering cease; and in their place shall be an abomination that desolates, until the decreed end is poured out upon the desolator.’

Here is Young's:

7And he hath strengthened a covenant with many -- one week, and [in] the midst of the week he causeth sacrifice and present to cease, and by the wing of abominations he is making desolate, even till the consummation, and that which is determined is poured on the desolate one.'

For me, that is probably the most accurate, word for word.

Why is Colin Heath's drastically different? Because his is a critical interpretation. Why does it say "...And as decreed she shall
be poured forth on the desolator."? SHE?

Hmm, he studied under Armstrong and the WCG... that may explain a lot. :-?
 
Good bible exegesis always takes the most complete and lastest revelation on a subject, and starts there to build doctrine. From the main source, then other things can be added from the minor scriptures.

When we write about end times, the last and the greatest resource is of course the book of Revelation. When one studies Revelation and builds doctrine there first, and then goes to the minor scriptures, the doctrine will be much better than much of what we have seen here. Any theory from Daniel MUST fit Revelation. However, what many people do is establish doctrine from minor scriptures, and then rearrange Revelation to fit their doctrine.

What do we find in Revelation? We find the 70th week, clearly marked, and still as a future event. Any belief that takes this away is wrong. Period. Believe it folks!

Coop
 
The 70th week deals with the Jews Only for 7 years.

But there are others that have to be dealt with.

Matt. 24: 51 The servant that is given a portion with the hypocrites.

First he is a servant not a hypocrite. meaning he is born again .

Also Matt. 25:1-13 the 5 foolish virgins. They are a part of the gentile church.

These are the ones being killed in Rev. 6:9-11 in the first 3 1/2 years after the rapture, then the 7 years will start.

Making the book of Rev. 10 1/2 years long not 7

The rapture will only take those that have readied them selves, not everyone that climes to be christian

1000s taken and millions left all think that they will go.
 
Darrell dunn said:
The 70th week deals with the Jews Only for 7 years.

But there are others that have to be dealt with.

Matt. 24: 51 The servant that is given a portion with the hypocrites.

First he is a servant not a hypocrite. meaning he is born again .

Also Matt. 25:1-13 the 5 foolish virgins. They are a part of the gentile church.

These are the ones being killed in Rev. 6:9-11 in the first 3 1/2 years after the rapture, then the 7 years will start.

Making the book of Rev. 10 1/2 years long not 7

The rapture will only take those that have readied them selves, not everyone that climes to be christian

1000s taken and millions left all think that they will go.


To the readers: These posts by "Darrell dunn," can be used as a "pop quiz" to check up on your knowledge of the Book. Try to see where and why he is in error.

Matt. 24: 51 The servant that is given a portion with the hypocrites.

First he is a servant not a hypocrite. meaning he is born again .

In Matthew 24, Jesus is speaking as if in a parable of a servant and a land owner that has hired the servant. the main point of this parable is how the servant acts, when he thinks the master will not know, as he is away, and what the master will do when he comes back unexpectedly, and catches the servant acting devilish. Since no one at this point in time, before Jesus has died, has any idea at all about being born again, and since Jesus is speaking to Jewish men about the end of their age, it would be a HUGE stretch to say that this servant is to represent a born again believer. Jesus is speaking here of the time after the 70th week has finished, and His coming is immenent. It is almost time for the parable of the wheat and tares and the dragnet to take place. In these parables, who are the tares, and the junk fish, and gets taken? What are they doing that causes them to be taken and burned?

Matt
"41 The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity;
42 And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.

49 So shall it be at the end of the world: the angels shall come forth, and sever the wicked from among the just,


Please note that there is no mention here of any spiritual condition, or relationship with God. This judgement is based, not on a relationship with God, but purely on actions. Those taken (one taken and one left) to be burned, are people, as this servant, that offend, do iniquity, and are wicked. At this point in time, about 7 years after the rapture of the church, and 3 1/2 years after the 7th trumpet has ended the "mystery" of gentile church, no one is "born again," as seen by the messages given by the angels in chapter 14. People are only told to worship God, fear HIm and give glory to Him - no mention of Jesus' death, burial and resurrection. By this time, (the 7th trumpet) the fullness of the Gentile will have come in, and the church age has been closed.

Also Matt. 25:1-13 the 5 foolish virgins. They are a part of the gentile church.

Everything said previously fits this verse also. Jesus is speaking of that time after the 70th week has finished, and the time of His coming. Since Jesus is speaking to Jewish men about the end of their age, it would be a stretch to say that any of these virgins are born again. Not one of the listeners would have had any idea what Jesus was saying. What would this have meant to them, at that point in time? It is the same message as the previous story: be ready for His coming! Again, the gentile church will have been gone for about 7 years.

Darrell goes on to say,
These are the ones being killed in Rev. 6:9-11 in the first 3 1/2 years after the rapture, then the 7 years will start.

Making the book of Rev. 10 1/2 years long not 7

Darell needs to take "Revelation 101." These verses here are speaking of those seen under that alter at the 5th seal. This is speaking of those killed for their testimony. When was this seal broken? Probably about 33 to 24 AD. Stephen would have been one of the first to join this group, since he was put to death for his testimony.

When would the rapture of the church be in relation to this 5th seal? The rapture will be just before the "day of the Lord" starts at the 7th seal. It is only a myth that the rapture is found in Rev. 4:1. We are now awaiting the 6th seal, which will be the warning for that the day of the Lord is about to begin. The rapture will undoubtedly be the very first event to happen.

Therefore, people have been added to that 5th seal since the days of Stephen being stoned. All those put to death over the church age are with this group.

Since some of what is mentioned in REvelation happened long before Adam was created (the fall of Satan in chapter 12) we cannot say that this book covers 7 years, or ten years. It covers many thousands of years.

The rapture will only take those that have readied them selves, not everyone that climes to be christian

1000s taken and millions left all think that they will go.

Now this is a true statement! Good job, Darrell! Only those people that are born again AND looking for His coming, will go up in the rapture. For those not born again, which includes all people just playing church, and all people stuck in false religions, forget it! They are not part of God's family, and they will not be taken in the rapture. For those that ARE born again, but are living as if they are not, i.e., living in the world and loving it; they are not looking for His coming! They will be left behind.

Coop
 
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