Should a Christian go to war?

[jasonc]

I don't even think the army has the 51n mos anymore

 

[Gary]

but if you really, look at it, aren't I paid to kill ?

No..........51N is a Water Treatment Specialist.

The weapons you used in your training were to teach you how to defend yourself and your buddies in case your position was overrun by un-friendlies.

Unless you were a part of a specialized unit like the Seals or Delta Force, the training you received was for defensive purposes only.

You were not a paid killer.
.

 

[jeff77]

Wow I never thought of it that way, as far as being evil. And I did not know that, that is what you were thinking that I meant. I have never felt like that, I am glad to have served and would have went to war for my country, but thinking that we were evil never ever crossed my mind until you said it. I still say though, we are paid hit men, now if you link that to the Mafia or something, it is going to sound maybe in some minds evil, because of what the stigma of the words hit man brings, by the civilian mind set. My thing is, in the time of war I am to serve my country and if I have to kill you I will and I am being paid at the same time to do so, I can serve my country and support my wife and kids at the same time. So I am not using the words Hit Men in a bad way, but if you really, look at it, aren't I paid to kill ?

Well now that we know that you were not linking "hit man" to the mafia it certainly clears things up.

 

[Lewis]

No..........51N is a Water Treatment Specialist.

The weapons you used in your training were to teach you how to defend yourself and your buddies in case your position was overrun by un-friendlies.

Unless you were a part of a specialized unit like the Seals or Delta Force, the training you received was for defensive purposes only.

You were not a paid killer.
.

I am not even going to answer

 

[jasonc]

I am not even going to answer

he has a point. did you all go on patrols outside what you normally had to? ie rsop isn't what I call going after the enemy on search and destroy. I have been combat and now in a combat support mission. there is a difference. while the Mps can do the former they are labeled the later and train more for the later then the former.

 

[Lewis]

Jason he has no point and I am not really trying to hear this garbage. I was told by a officer in there that we are fighting soldiers first, everything else follows. So what are you and the others saying ? That I was a fake soldier or something. Because I don't agree with some of you and I am not going to agree with you. You and a couple others are going to down play my role as a soldier when I was in, I was not a grunt but I still had to keep training.

 

[jasonc]

Jason he has no point and I am not really trying to hear this garbage. I was told by a officer in there that we are fighting soldiers first, everything else follows. So what are you and the others saying ? That I was a fake soldier or something. Because I don't agree with some of you and I am not going to agree with you. You and a couple others are going to down play my role as a soldier when I was in, I was not a grunt but I still had to keep training.

I know the concept of everyman is an infantry man. I train in that too. but there is difference in training one day a year or a few weeks verses that is YOUR job.

downplay? not at all. I know the importance of clean water for drinking and showering.

remember my jokes about being the donkey commander?

 

[Lewis]

And in the war working with your M-16 grenades and pistol with you at all times, and for what' to kill if you have to. I did not want to be a grunt, so I picked 51 November, the longest Mos that Fort Leonard Wood had at that time. And this is what I go by, everyman is an infantry man.

 

[jasonc]

And in the war working with your M-16 grenades and pistol with you at all times, and for what' to kill if you have to. I did not want to be a grunt, so I picked 51 November, the longest Mos that Fort Leonard Wood had at that time. And this is what I go by, everyman is an infantry man.

im speaking from experience, while the army does say that. to take a soldier that hasn't been trained longer then any basic recruit infantry will be a mistake without train up.

I doubt you have done any mobile operation urban training. that is the scary stuff for me. it takes a lot of training to do that and be good that and even then the casualties rates in Germany during ww2 with that was up to 80%!

 

[Gary]

Jason he has no point and I am not really trying to hear this garbage. everything else follows. So what are you and the others saying ? That I was a fake soldier or something. Because I don't agree with some of you and I am not going to agree with you. You and a couple others are going to down play my role as a soldier when I was in, I was not a grunt but I still had to keep training.

Lewis W , the only one downplaying your role as a soldier is you. You refer to yourself as a killer for pay, a hit man. Someone whose soul purpose is to kill someone for money.

How many people have you killed? If the answer is "0", then you were not being paid to kill.

Here's the oath you took. Notice it says "support and defend", not "seek out and kill".


I, _____, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God."

I was told by a officer in there that we are fighting soldiers first,

That's true. Hence the marksmanship training. Regardless of ones MOS, you are trained to defend yourself.





No one's talking down to you Lewis W .
.

 

[Gary]

I was a Grunt...

.

 

[jasonc]

I have had these four mos.
19d(calvary)
14m
14s
31b
31e
I hold the 31e. but out of them all the most exercience I have is with the 14m. this is an air defender. we took up defensive positions to protect the infantry/armor/cav from an air attack. I have also been a cav troop. in that mos its hide and observe. engage if you must. I know that has been changed but still its recon. the idea Is to see and report and not to take out the infantry. the cadence? I am the queen of battle refers to the infantry. as a cav trooper I was attached to the 2/1 inf. then later on the brigade became 2 acr. now then the king of the battle is the artillery as those always decides battles.

 

[Lewis]

Lewis W , the only one downplaying your role as a soldier is you. You refer to yourself as a killer for pay, a hit man. Someone whose soul purpose is to kill someone for money.

How many people have you killed? If the answer is "0", then you were not being paid to kill.

Here's the oath you took. Notice it says "support and defend", not "seek out and kill".


I, _____, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God."




That's true. Hence the marksmanship training. Regardless of ones MOS, you are trained to defend yourself.





No one's talking down to you Lewis W .
.

Defend, what about seeking out the enemy ? I guess they don't do that anymore. Are you telling me that in war we don't seek out the enemy ? Like the bombing that we are doing now ?

 

[jasonc]

Defend, what about seeking out the enemy ? I guess they don't do that anymore. Are you telling me that in war we don't seek out the enemy ? Like the bombing that we are doing now ?

lewis, your job once the fob was built was to maintain the fob. not to go out the wire and take out the enemy.

my job in country can be both defense of the perimeter or patrolling the area to secure it and also gain intel. and mp do search and destroy. but that is for the 31b. 31e has something similar but that is to recon and set up the dha. which again has nothing to do with search and destroy.

do you remember the five paragraph oporder? the second paragraph of it? mission. the what if what is being asked is specified and In that is the orders of what to do upon contact. you are thinking in cold war era stuff. its not like that anymore.

 

[Lewis]

It sure didn't go like that in Vietnam' I have talked to guy's who had to do whatever. And would seek them out to destroy them.

 

[Gary]

Defend, what about seeking out the enemy ? I guess they don't do that anymore. Are you telling me that in war we don't seek out the enemy ? Like the bombing that we are doing now ?

How much of that were you actually involved in?
.

 

[jasonc]

It sure didn't go like that in Vietnam' I have talked to guy's who had to do whatever. And would seek them out to destroy them.

you nor I were there. I was trained by nam vets and until 2010. we had a sfc mess seargeant that wore his nam combat patch. to wit: americal. 23rd inf division. he was a grunt then.i have had a 1sg who was there as well and went to desert storm. those are the few that I can remember.

sometimes in war doctrine is ignored and the situation dictates that. I know. we had cooks and medics doing op duty in the area I was in but that doesn't mean they were grunts. an op is for two things. to overwatch and to defend. but never to take a position. its to defend that you have that line of sight and also can overwatch friendly movements and see things they might not see.

 

[Lewis]

You know what Gary you always have a smart answer, that is why I don't like talking to you and I avoid you as much as possible.

 

[jasonc]

how was he being smart? he asked a valid question. where you there and if so what did you do.

the army of training is different from the army of war and this man has been in both.

 

[Lewis]

Jason I am not only talking about this topic there have been others.