Should Calvinists and Arminians be divided?

[Dave Slayer]

Should Calvinists and Arminians be divided? Aren't both the body of Christ?

 

[Joe67]

Should Calvinists and Arminians be divided? Aren't both the body of Christ?

Dave,

Esau and Jacob both came from the body of Isaac, the gospel son of promise, the child of a miracle.

They were twins. Not identical.

Calvinism and Arminianism are twins of the European Reformation. Not identical.

Jacob/Israel and Esau buried their dead father together in peace, but they could not live in the same place. God gave Esau his place in Edom. Jacob was given to live in the land of promise for awhile.

Joe

 

[justvisiting]

I'm afraid Calvinists and Arminians separate drastically on the act of the will. That's okay with me. I'll get to praise God spontaneously whenever I want. They have to wait for God to tell them.
Honestly, I am not Arminian, but they(Calvinists) are so overboard with the sovereignty of God, that some of them don't even share the gospel. They see no free will with man whatsoever when it comes to being saved. I can only say...the invitation to "believe" is stated a few hundred more times...than you are predestined...and the actual order in being chosen is:
Romans 8:29  ¶For whom he did 1. foreknow, he also did 2. predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.
30  Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also 3. called: and whom he called, them he also 4. justified: and whom he justified, them he also 5. glorified.
31  ¶What shall we then say to these things? If God be for us, who can be against us?
Peter says:
1 Peter 1:1  ¶Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, to the strangers scattered throughout Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia,
2  Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.

I really don't want any part of their theology. That's my opinion. You will also find they are a very closed group. The first hint of winning any argument against them...you're out. Which is fine with me. Personally, I think their ideas are the next closest thing to being a robot.

 

[Joe67]

Will worship is a veil over our minds, so that when we read Moses we only hear the benefits of obedience, as pertaining to our own soul.

Eph 2:10
10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them. KJV


Phil 2:12-15
12 Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.

13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.

14 Do all things without murmurings and disputings:

15 That ye may be blameless and harmless, the sons of God, without rebuke, in the midst of a crooked and perverse nation, among whom ye shine as lights in the world;
KJV

 

[Heidi]

Should Calvinists and Arminians be divided? Aren't both the body of Christ?

Dave,

Esau and Jacob both came from the body of Isaac, the gospel son of promise, the child of a miracle.

They were twins. Not identical.

Calvinism and Arminianism are twins of the European Reformation. Not identical.

Jacob/Israel and Esau buried their dead father together in peace, but they could not live in the same place. God gave Esau his place in Edom. Jacob was given to live in the land of promise for awhile.

Joe

The difference is that the firstborn sons represent the old covenant, the 2nd born sons represent the new covenant (the promise). God favored the second sons over the first; Abel over Cain, Isaac over Ishmael, Jacob over Esau, the prodigal son over the first born and Jesus over Adam.

the 1st sons represent the old covenant of the flesh and earthly inheritance rights, the 2nd sons represent the sons of the spirit and heavenly inheritance rights. So they are like night and day and can never be yolked. :ohwell

 

[GodspromisesRyes]

well they are divided because both need to believe the whole word of God and come together in unity of mind and spirit. One day that will happen as it is Gods plan for the body of Christ.
Eph 4:13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:

What both sides do not yet see is that they both have things right that the other does not have, and both have these wrong that the other side does not, when they can come together desireing nothing fleshly but to walk in the whole councel of God then what is of God will be added unto each other and what is not of God will fall away amen and those at that point who will not ever be conformed into Christ will be taken out of Christ for good because eventually there will be no skizm in the body anymore.

 

[justvisiting]

Will worship is a veil over our minds, so that when we read Moses we only hear the benefits of obedience, as pertaining to our own soul.

That actual quote is not even referring to having a free will. It is referring to Jews that were still into legalism.
Colossians 2:20  Wherefore if ye be dead with Christ from the rudiments of the world, why, as though living in the world, are ye subject to ordinances,
21  (Touch not; taste not; handle not;
22  Which all are to perish with the using;) after the commandments and doctrines of men?
23  Which things have indeed a shew of wisdom in will worship, and humility, and neglecting of the body; not in any honour to the satisfying of the flesh.

Eph 2:10
10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them. KJV

By the way the word for "ordained", is supposedly the same as predestination.

Phil 2:12-15
12 Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.

If God did all the work and there was no part for us to be diligent about our faith, yes, even using the will, such scriptures wouldn't be there for warning. There are a lot of other scriptures on warning.

13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.

I have no problem with that. In fact I don't have a problem with God being the initiator. Where the problem lies, is extreme views that make like we are now incapable of using our will to please God. I think if any person seriously goes through their day , they will see many occasions where they did things that weren't pleasing to God, or even some other person. There are no Christians that I know of that practice the perfect will of God. That is the privilege of being subject to God but still allowed to have free choice.

14 Do all things without murmurings and disputings:

That's great advice. Unfortunately, we don't have the Apostle Paul, or Peter here. All of us will have A doctrine. The more a Christian gets into detail, the more that doctrine becomes refined. Honestly, the ones that get along the best, don't know much at all.

15 That ye may be blameless and harmless, the sons of God, without rebuke, in the midst of a crooked and perverse nation, among whom ye shine as lights in the world;
KJV