Should couples live together before marriage?

[ruby917]

Sex or no sex, what right do you have to sleep in the same bed with someone if you are not married? Or even just to live together? Marriage is the only condition that gives anyone the freedom to do that, otherwise you are assuming something that doesn't belong to you. Not only that, but how are you going to prove to anyone that you aren't having sex? Who is going to believe you? Having the appearance of evil is just as bad as committing it, and there is NO good witness that can come about from you living with someone who is not your spouse. That is what will lead others to believe it is ok...

That was well said. That was the along the same lines of the point I was trying to make. Thank you Caromurp for reiterating.
Not to mention the stumbling block that could result for our fellow brothers and sisters. Paul, when speaking to the Corinthians about eating food sacrificed to idols, made it clear: Do not live in a way to cause another to stumble in their walk with the Lord.

"But when you thus sin against the brethren, and wound their weak conscience, you sin against Christ"
1 Corinthians 8:12

If God's word says this about eating certain meat, how do you think He feels about shacking up? Like Caromurp said, sex or no sex, the appearance is wrong, and it's doubtful anyone would believe it's really platonic.

 

[Twisted Hawk]

Sex or no sex, what right do you have to sleep in the same bed with someone if you are not married? Or even just to live together? Marriage is the only condition that gives anyone the freedom to do that, otherwise you are assuming something that doesn't belong to you. Not only that, but how are you going to prove to anyone that you aren't having sex? Who is going to believe you? Having the appearance of evil is just as bad as committing it, and there is NO good witness that can come about from you living with someone who is not your spouse. That is what will lead others to believe it is ok...

Got some scripture to back that up?

 

[LostSoul]

Got some scripture to back that up?

Romans 12:1 Therefore, I urge you, brothers and sisters, in view of God's mercy, to offer your
bodies as a living sacrifice, holy and pleasing to God – this is true worship.


2 Timothy 2:22 Flee also youthful lusts: but follow righteousness, faith, charity, peace, with them that call on the Lord out of a pure heart. (KJV)

Romans 16:17 Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them. (KJV)

 

[Twisted Hawk]

Got some scripture to back that up?

Romans 12:1 Therefore, I urge you, brothers and sisters, in view of God's mercy, to offer your
bodies as a living sacrifice, holy and pleasing to God – this is true worship.


2 Timothy 2:22 Flee also youthful lusts: but follow righteousness, faith, charity, peace, with them that call on the Lord out of a pure heart. (KJV)

Romans 16:17 Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them. (KJV)

I agree with you on the quote from 2 Timothy 2:22. Nice find!

I studied Romans 12:1, and we kinda saw that it can be played in all situations. As long as lustful desires are kept away, I don't see how your not keeping your body a holy sacrifice.

Romans 16:17 appears to be more towards factions that it does between two people. I've read it, and it appears to be more towards church leaders making their own rules instead of following the scripture. I guess that it could possibly be an obstacle though.

I will say that living together probably isn't the best decision, but I don't think it's necessarily unbiblical.

 

[LostSoul]

[quote="Twisted Hawk":2nwpccil]Got some scripture to back that up?

Romans 12:1 Therefore, I urge you, brothers and sisters, in view of God's mercy, to offer your
bodies as a living sacrifice, holy and pleasing to God – this is true worship.


2 Timothy 2:22 Flee also youthful lusts: but follow righteousness, faith, charity, peace, with them that call on the Lord out of a pure heart. (KJV)

Romans 16:17 Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them. (KJV)

I agree with you on the quote from 2 Timothy 2:22. Nice find!

I studied Romans 12:1, and we kinda saw that it can be played in all situations. As long as lustful desires are kept away, I don't see how your not keeping your body a holy sacrifice.

Romans 16:17 appears to be more towards factions that it does between two people. I've read it, and it appears to be more towards church leaders making their own rules instead of following the scripture. I guess that it could possibly be an obstacle though.

I will say that living together probably isn't the best decision, but I don't think it's necessarily unbiblical.[/quote:2nwpccil]

Perhaps...but it is but an open door to temptation which as believers, we should be more or less encouraged to avoid rather than let in the idea. For after all, that is all it takes....invitation.

 

[Blazin Bones]

Yes Danielle, Christ prayed that we would avoid temptation. (I noticed how my first post got overlooked?)

Matthew 6:13 "And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil."

Christ asked the Father to lead us AWAY from temptation. So if the Lord desires that we be led away from Temptation, then a person or thing which leads into temptation should be avoided. It's using logic to apply the word to our lives.

We all know how hard it is to flee temptation, but it should be done for the sake of the Lord. Living together is inviting temptation into our life. If we are inviting the temptation, we are just one step away from inviting the sin itself.

 

[LostSoul]

Yes Danielle, Christ prayed that we would avoid temptation. (I noticed how my first post got overlooked?)

Matthew 6:13 "And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil."

Christ asked the Father to lead us AWAY from temptation. So if the Lord desires that we be led away from Temptation, then a person or thing which leads into temptation should be avoided. It's using logic to apply the word to our lives.

We all know how hard it is to flee temptation, but it should be done for the sake of the Lord. Living together is inviting temptation into our life. If we are inviting the temptation, we are just one step away from inviting the sin itself.

Exactly...do not mean to sound like a know it all...but I also speak from experience. Moved in with my husband while we were dating at the age of eighteen, and well.....let us just say the temptation was there.

 

[Caroline H]

Sex or no sex, what right do you have to sleep in the same bed with someone if you are not married? Or even just to live together? Marriage is the only condition that gives anyone the freedom to do that, otherwise you are assuming something that doesn't belong to you. Not only that, but how are you going to prove to anyone that you aren't having sex? Who is going to believe you? Having the appearance of evil is just as bad as committing it, and there is NO good witness that can come about from you living with someone who is not your spouse. That is what will lead others to believe it is ok...

Got some scripture to back that up?

1 Thessalonians 5:22 Abstain from all appearance of evil.

That is actually a good "blanket verse" for many different kinds of activities...

But Twisted Hawk, the problem is that when we start trying to search through the Scriptures to find a verse that either validates or prohibits a certain activity we risk missing out on something bigger. You are asking for a specific verse that says something like "thou shalt not live with someone of the opposite sex", am I right? Of course there is no verse that explicitly says that, but neither are there any verses that say you shouldn't euthanize someone, or you shouldn't abort your baby, etc... These notions have, however, been accepted over centuries of Christianity because of the context of the whole of Scripture. If we want to know the mind of God on certain life issues we have good examples provided throughout the entire Bible; namely Psalms, Proverbs, Deuteronomy, Corinthians, James, and many others. Just as it is not wise to take one passage or verse and form a theology around it, it is not wise to take one to either justify or condemn a certain behaviour. God's views on these matters are pretty clear when one takes into account the whole of Scripture, but if we choose not to take the time to learn His mind then all that is left is for us to interject our own presuppositions into the texts.

 

[Twisted Hawk]

Yes Danielle, Christ prayed that we would avoid temptation. (I noticed how my first post got overlooked?)

Matthew 6:13 "And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil."

Christ asked the Father to lead us AWAY from temptation. So if the Lord desires that we be led away from Temptation, then a person or thing which leads into temptation should be avoided. It's using logic to apply the word to our lives.

We all know how hard it is to flee temptation, but it should be done for the sake of the Lord. Living together is inviting temptation into our life. If we are inviting the temptation, we are just one step away from inviting the sin itself.

Exactly...do not mean to sound like a know it all...but I also speak from experience. Moved in with my husband while we were dating at the age of eighteen, and well.....let us just say the temptation was there.

I understand your view point. Well said, and good scripture finds.

 

[Twisted Hawk]

That is actually a good "blanket verse" for many different kinds of activities...

But Twisted Hawk, the problem is that when we start trying to search through the Scriptures to find a verse that either validates or prohibits a certain activity we risk missing out on something bigger. You are asking for a specific verse that says something like "thou shalt not live with someone of the opposite sex", am I right? Of course there is no verse that explicitly says that, but neither are there any verses that say you shouldn't euthanize someone, or you shouldn't abort your baby, etc... These notions have, however, been accepted over centuries of Christianity because of the context of the whole of Scripture. If we want to know the mind of God on certain life issues we have good examples provided throughout the entire Bible; namely Psalms, Proverbs, Deuteronomy, Corinthians, James, and many others. Just as it is not wise to take one passage or verse and form a theology around it, it is not wise to take one to either justify or condemn a certain behaviour. God's views on these matters are pretty clear when one takes into account the whole of Scripture, but if we choose not to take the time to learn His mind then all that is left is for us to interject our own presuppositions into the texts. [/color]

The only problem with that verse is that it's been used to justify that Rock music and sports are inheritantly evil. I've heard people use this verse, then the "if you have doubts about it, stay away" attitude, effectively putting their consciouses on you.The verse can be a blanket verse for things, but people use it way too much to say to stay away from something altogether. Plus, what appears to be evil to someone may not appear evil to someone else.

Also, Exodus 21: 22-25 talks about miscarriage. While it doesn't specifically say that the women can choose to have a miscarriage, it's talks about a man causing a woman to have a miscarriage.

 

[Nick]

Thankyou Timothy and Caroline.

 

[sheshisown]

I have a small bit of scripture to add to this discourse...

Jesus also commanded His followers to watch and to pray that they/we enter not into temptation.

Watch and pray, that ye enter not into temptation: the spirit indeed is willing, but the flesh is weak. Matthew 26:41

This idea that a Christian can desire to be tested/enter temptation in order to be stronger is a lie. :o
I say this because it is exactly what Peter did. He wanted to enter the test with Christ... to be able to be tempted to sin~ and then sin not.

No matter how hardy we think we are ~ and especially in the areas where we think we are so strong in the faith... we must remember this admonishion from the word.

Therefore let him who thinks he stands take heed lest he fall. 1 Corinthains 10:12

For any Christian to resist the temptation to be selfish and self-focused, they must first understand they are vulnerable. . . This was the very area I most recently fell into! <Believe my log-less eye - now briused and weeping from sin> Anyone who thinks he or she stands will not even be on guard against temptation~ so he or she can more easily fall. :crazy

Temptation is like rocks in a harbor~ when the tide is low, everybody sees the danger and avoids it. :nod But Satan’s strategy in temptation is to raise the tide... and to cover over the dangers of temptation. :yes Then he likes to crash us on the "hidden" rocks while we swim in the swells of self and pride.

Please consider your witness and life in Christ as precious, a pricless commodity~ pushing the envelope when practicing a sport or any other endeavor may be fine. However~ straining the limit or our endurance by "testing" our faith and walk in Christ may lead to ruin!

In His love of the truth~ sheshisown :shades

 

[Nick]

thankyou for all your rebukes, Bonnie, Timothy and Caroline.

 

[Caroline H]

The only problem with that verse is that it's been used to justify that Rock music and sports are inheritantly evil. I've heard people use this verse, then the "if you have doubts about it, stay away" attitude, effectively putting their consciouses on you.The verse can be a blanket verse for things, but people use it way too much to say to stay away from something altogether. Plus, what appears to be evil to someone may not appear evil to someone else.

And that is why I also said...

But Twisted Hawk, the problem is that when we start trying to search through the Scriptures to find a verse that either validates or prohibits a certain activity we risk missing out on something bigger. You are asking for a specific verse that says something like "thou shalt not live with someone of the opposite sex", am I right? Of course there is no verse that explicitly says that, but neither are there any verses that say you shouldn't euthanize someone, or you shouldn't abort your baby, etc... These notions have, however, been accepted over centuries of Christianity because of the context of the whole of Scripture. If we want to know the mind of God on certain life issues we have good examples provided throughout the entire Bible; namely Psalms, Proverbs, Deuteronomy, Corinthians, James, and many others. Just as it is not wise to take one passage or verse and form a theology around it, it is not wise to take one to either justify or condemn a certain behaviour. God's views on these matters are pretty clear when one takes into account the whole of Scripture, but if we choose not to take the time to learn His mind then all that is left is for us to interject our own presuppositions into the texts.

 

[Twisted Hawk]

I have a small bit of scripture to add to this discourse...

Jesus also commanded His followers to watch and to pray that they/we enter not into temptation.

Watch and pray, that ye enter not into temptation: the spirit indeed is willing, but the flesh is weak. Matthew 26:41

This idea that a Christian can desire to be tested/enter temptation in order to be stronger is a lie. :o
I say this because it is exactly what Peter did. He wanted to enter the test with Christ... to be able to be tempted to sin~ and then sin not.

No matter how hardy we think we are ~ and especially in the areas where we think we are so strong in the faith... we must remember this admonishion from the word.

Therefore let him who thinks he stands take heed lest he fall. 1 Corinthains 10:12

For any Christian to resist the temptation to be selfish and self-focused, they must first understand they are vulnerable. . . This was the very area I most recently fell into! <Believe my log-less eye - now briused and weeping from sin> Anyone who thinks he or she stands will not even be on guard against temptation~ so he or she can more easily fall. :crazy

Temptation is like rocks in a harbor~ when the tide is low, everybody sees the danger and avoids it. :nod But Satan’s strategy in temptation is to raise the tide... and to cover over the dangers of temptation. :yes Then he likes to crash us on the "hidden" rocks while we swim in the swells of self and pride.

Please consider your witness and life in Christ as precious, a pricless commodity~ pushing the envelope when practicing a sport or any other endeavor may be fine. However~ straining the limit or our endurance by "testing" our faith and walk in Christ may lead to ruin!

In His love of the truth~ sheshisown :shades

Your right. I, personally am not going to live with my spouse before I'm married, if I do get married. Not saying I won't, but I agree with you. Definately not wise to live with a spouse before marriage.

I will stick with my highway analogy though, cause I believe that there is the temptation to speed and get outraged on the road. Everyone watch your speed and your emotions! I will still say though, I highly do not recommend living together as a couple before marriage. Horrible sin can happen. Plus, it will feel more exciting the longer you wait before living together!!!

 

[Sparkey]

Sex or no sex, what right do you have to sleep in the same bed with someone if you are not married? Or even just to live together? Marriage is the only condition that gives anyone the freedom to do that, otherwise you are assuming something that doesn't belong to you. Not only that, but how are you going to prove to anyone that you aren't having sex? Who is going to believe you? Having the appearance of evil is just as bad as committing it, and there is NO good witness that can come about from you living with someone who is not your spouse. That is what will lead others to believe it is ok...

Frankly, I would disagree. If my conscience before God was clean, who are you <not you personally, who is anybody other than Christ Jesus our Lord> to say that I have sinned? Let Jesus be the ONLY judge here. Only He is worthy. Sadly, we do live in a world where many Christians (so called) have joined forces with the Accuser. The idea of being able to "prove you have not sinned" fails utterly. Even the appearance of "holiness" - where one has the form of religion only fails to "prove" sanctification from sin.

Having said that, no --it is not a good idea to live with members of the opposite sex. But simply living alone does nothing to address the issue of our lack of self-control where lust (or sin in general) is concerned. Eschew evil (and also avoid even the appearance of sin). Clean the inside of the cup FIRST (and don't neglect the outside).

There is a difference between lusty conversation over the phone or internet (with a loved one) and living together physically. The two people involved, as they approach the Lord of all heaven and earth, will be convicted of sin by the action of the Holy Spirit. No help from man is needed unless requested. Their conversations may be hidden and "nobody will know" but our Father knows. We can trust Him not only to convict but also to deliver us and our loved ones from evil. Those who willfully enter into lust (hidden or exposed) are joining Christ to evil. Nothing but pain will result.

:2cents ...Just my two cents.
~Sparrow

 

[ruby917]

Yes, but God does give us permission to judge within the body of Christ. Paul wrote to the Corinthians, when dealing with sexual immorality said "For what have I to do with judging those who are outside? Do you not judge thoe who are inside? But those who are outside God judges. Therefore, 'put away from yourselves the evil person.' (1 Corinthians 5:12-13)

I think if we get into a position where we don't judge anything, we can allow for anything.

Not trying to veer off topic, so I will try to keep this within the subject. If I knew of a brother or sister who was living with their girlfriend/boyfriend, I would feel compelled to pull them aside and confront them in a loving manner. Whether or not they were sleeping together, it does not reflect well for the body of Christ, and we all (Christians) have a responsibility to one another to strengthen, encourage and exhort one another.
I ask this question: What possible edification could come with living with your ____friend? I noticed that even those who argued in defense of this admitted that they wouldn't actually do it. So why not? I dare to say that deep down, we all know it is wrong. What in God's character would say otherwise?

 

[Sparkey]

What we are speaking about is societal mores, not God's law. "Living together" without sexual sin offends moral attitudes and not the One who searches hearts. As a general principle though it would be foolish to bring oneself into temptation. It's the inside of the cup that matters; prudence dwells with wisdom.

The "problem" that bothers me doesn't come when we are dealing with something as obvious as a man and woman sharing the same roof (and perhaps bed?) but instead when rumors are taken as facts. Certainly, there are many who have been convicted wrongly by the suspicious minds of others. It's very easy to commit sexual sin and nobody needs to actually live together to do it.

Let me ask, "Should Christians have to prove to others that they have not sinned?"

I believe Paul was speaking of actual sexual immorality in 1Cor 5. The social custom of living together prior to marriage (like Mary and Joseph did) was not the topic of discussion.

~Sparrow

 

[LostSoul]

Let me ask, "Should Christians have to prove to others that they have not sinned?"

I believe Paul was speaking of actual sexual immorality in 1Cor 5. The social custom of living together prior to marriage (like Mary and Joseph did) was not the topic of discussion.

~Sparrow

That is a good and valid question.

 

[Twisted Hawk]

What we are speaking about is societal mores, not God's law. "Living together" without sexual sin offends moral attitudes and not the One who searches hearts. As a general principle though it would be foolish to bring oneself into temptation. It's the inside of the cup that matters; prudence dwells with wisdom.

The "problem" that bothers me doesn't come when we are dealing with something as obvious as a man and woman sharing the same roof (and perhaps bed?) but instead when rumors are taken as facts. Certainly, there are many who have been convicted wrongly by the suspicious minds of others. It's very easy to commit sexual sin and nobody needs to actually live together to do it.

Let me ask, "Should Christians have to prove to others that they have not sinned?"

I believe Paul was speaking of actual sexual immorality in 1Cor 5. The social custom of living together prior to marriage (like Mary and Joseph did) was not the topic of discussion.

~Sparrow

I've definately been there.

You know the band DC talk? I was tricked by Dial the Truth ministries that they were saying Jesus was a freak. I was tricked into thinking that Stryper was a band that was not about Christianity at all, and that they were opposed to all of it. I was tricked into thinking that the Vatican was using satanic symbols of worship in their upside down cross, when it is actually the cross of St. Peter. The same goes for the distinction of the bent cross and papal cross.

Now, these are rumors not related to sexual immorality, but it shows by saying something how you can easily trick someone.