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(Sigh) I miss church.

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handy

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Way back in the 'olden' days, late 70's and early 80's, I used to go to "church". Back then, young'uns, folks dressed up for church. There were actually clothes that were known as one's Sunday Best because one wore them to church on Sunday. Sunday was a day that was truly different from any other day of the week. We got up, dressed in our Sunday best, and went to church. It was actually called 'church'. Now, don't get all confused and think that we thought the Bible taught that a church was a building that was only open on Sunday morning, evening and Wednesday evening. We all knew that the church is the body of Christ. But, we went to 'church' on Sunday morning, evening and Wednesday evening. Wednesday evening was usually not called 'church'. It was called 'prayer meeting'.

Church was not a 'celebration' or a 'gathering' or a 'fellowship'. It was a time for the congregational worship service before the Lord. We sang hymns that had some fairly deep theological teachings in them. We passed the plate to collect 'God's tithes and your offerings'. We stood in together in prayer. The pastor preached from the Word of God. We had communion and every now and then there was a baptism service. Church was a quiet, almost solemn, but yet still joyful experience. No one chatted during the services, but folks gathered before to talk, and lingered long after the benediction to visit. That is unless everyone piled into the car and went over to someone's house where a roast or a chicken was already in the oven. Or there was a potluck. Then the visiting would continue on usually until it was time to go back to church.

Church was predictable. I could still tell you the order of worship we followed. Sunday School was at 9:45 and Church began at 11:00. Things wound up pretty much by 12:00 give or take a few minutes, mainly so that all those roasts and chickens wouldn't be overdone. But, even though we stuck to a schedule, the Holy Spirit still managed to touch lives and change hearts. Some of the stongest prayer warriors and most knowledgable saints that I've known in my life were raised up in that church.

Church was very much a place for believers. Oh, we evangelized. Everyone was encouraged to share the gospel with friends and neighbors and co-workers and invite them to church. There were groups that met on Tuesday evenings every Spring and Summer to knock on doors and share the gospel. But, the church service wasn't meant for non-believers. The church service, the worship service, was very much an intimate time shared with fellow Christians coming before the Throne.

As a congregation, we didn't grow fast. We didn't increase in our numbers by a lot, but that doesn't mean that growth didn't happen. In the years that I went there, new faces came. Others left, but mainly because they moved. All in all though, the membership grew. A few left because of problems. I wound up being one who left because of a couple of problems. But, I left on good terms, and still think of those good, kind, loving folks who were my first true spiritual leaders and companions in my walk with the Lord. And, the new church I went to was pretty much the same as the old one, except for doctrinal differences. But, most importantly, the new church also had prayer warriors and knowledgable saints who helped give me an even firmer walk with God. So, maybe the numerical growth was a little slow, but the spiritual growth was firm and lasting.

I don't really go to 'church' anymore. It is officially called a Fellowship. We meet Sunday evenings; it's far more convenient. The pastor wears Hawaiian shirts and Bermuda shorts. The girls (and some women) wear belly revealing tank tops with spaghetti straps. There is punch and cookies and everyone can stop by and get the snacks and munch while 'celebrating'. We sing spiritual songs, and I've added to the list of songs that play in my heart and mind. "Worship" is now synonymous with rock music. "Praise" is also another term for music, only music that is slower and a little more emotional. (Or is it the other way around?) Sometimes I really miss the old hymns, but they are never, ever sung, except for a jazzed up version of Amazing Grace. The atmosphere is very casual, and if someone needs to speak with someone else, they can get right up and walk over to where the person is sitting and talk with them about it. No problem. The best I can compare it to is being at a party where there is plenty of good food and good music and one person who dominates the conversation, but others can and do break off into their own separate conversations as well.

I know that somehow, somewhere it has been officially determined that the 'fellowship' that I now attend is 'Spirit-led and vibrant'. Apparently as opposed to dowdy old 'church' which must have been man-led and boring. It has been said over and over that these new 'fellowships' are more dynamic and the church HAS to be like this or new people just simply will not come. "Fellowships" are out-reach driven, as opposed to 'church' which was family time. And, since 'fellowships' are out-reach driven, they must be hip, young, and happening. If one wishes for a little more ceremony, a little more decorum, a little more acting like one is coming before the King of Kings, and the Lord of Lords, well too bad. One is then just caught up in tired old traditions. If the old fogeys can't get with the program, then they have to be left behind. I guess during the 90's, the Holy Spirit must have taken some marketing classes, figured out how He had got it wrong with that tired old 'church' stuff, but now He's in the know and on the go!

(Sigh) I really miss church. I really do.
 
Amen & amen! While I truly enjoy the contemporary music in services today there is no real substitute for the "old fashioned" hymns. Those words are powerful and have great messages. I still study them on my own.
:smt061
 
Oh I really miss my Sunday Best clothes :wink: Now all I wear is a pair of pants and a shirt ... and almost flip flops
 
Handy, you just described the over-stuffed, seeker friendly, purpose driver church.

Rev 3:16 So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth. :smt078

We do a few contemporary worship songs but we also balance things out with hymns like How Great Thou Art, Victory in Jesus and my fave, It is Well (with my soul). Time is rarely an issue; we begin classes at 9:15 and it's a rare Sunday if we get out before 12:30. Weds. are still called Prayer meetings. Our Pastor is too conservative to wear anything but a suit and tie. If he ever did come in with a Hawaiian shirt, the Deacons would be all over him like flies on... well you're a farmgirl. :lol:

Anyways, that's what I expect from a SBC congregation. 8-)

In general though, the Evangelical church is not influencing the world, it's the other way around and that makes me sad. :sad We need to be extra special careful to keep our church inline... the world can sneak up on y'all. That would be... all y'all. :wink:
 
For me theres nothing to miss, just the dress code, I still attend conservative Prebyterian and Lutheran churches and sing hymns although I do like contemporary music though I dont like getting carried away by it, something like christian rock or christian rap would be out of the question for me ... " just as I am without one plea" ... :biggrin
 
Forgive me for being blunt here...

Why do you need to "miss" it? Why do you need to "go with the flow?"

Why on earth would we want to "settle"?
 
Scott, sometimes people will use stories like Handy did to point out what may not be so obviously wrong. It's called "satire". 8-) Didn't you catch the sense of sarcasm in the post?

Men like Ben Franklin and Samuel Clemons (Mark Twain) were genius in this style of writing.
 
vic C. said:
Scott, sometimes people will use stories like Handy did to point out what may not be so obviously wrong. It's called "satire". 8-) Didn't you catch the sense of sarcasm in the post?

Men like Ben Franklin and Samuel Clemons (Mark Twain) were genius in this style of writing.

Guess I am not "good" at it... or, I just like to get right to the point.
 
Yes vic, I was being a bit sarcastic :wink: .

But the basic facts of this little testimony are true, so I'll answer your question aLoneVoice: We go there because within a 30 mile radious there are only three churches, the 'fellowship' we go to, a Mormon church, and the little country church in our town that is still served by circuit preachers. One is actually quite good and he comes one Sunday a month. Two Sundays, there is a preacher who just is a cold, unfriendly person who doesn't like kids and isn't afraid to let the fact be known. He once told a mother to take her fussy baby out of the service, during winter in 20 degree weather. (This is a one room, historic church that has no other room except an out-house in the back.) As there was still about 40 minutes left to the service, the dad grabbed their other child and simply took his family home. Fourth Sunday is pot-luck preacher Sunday, you kinda get whoever shows up. The options are limited around here for church. During the summer, I drive the kids to a town about 35 miles away where they have a great inter-denominational community VBS. But, it's just not practical to drive that far, especially in the winter around here.

So, this is why we choose to go to the 'fellowship'. And, really, the folks are nice and the preacher is actually a very good teacher of the word. But, last night, I was really missing the sanctity of those old Sunday services. And, I just get a little tired of the attitude that seems so prevelent in the church today that this 'coffee-house' approach to church is the only way to get a church to grow. Frankly, I wouldn't mind it as much if there was real revival going on because of this new approach to worship. But, I don't see real revival going on in our nation at all.

katsa, what Presbyterian church do you go to? The services I was describing were from the Orthodox Presbyterian Church that I used to go to in Modesto. It really was a great little church.
 
Handy that preacher who does not like kids is not a man of God, he is of the devil. And he should not be preaching at all. And he should be told to step down. But on another note I like the new church way even though I still like some of the old songs, I got tired of them. I like modern Gospel songs the best, is it because I am a musician' I don't know, but I will take the modern Gospel songs over the old ones.
 
Lewis, I agree with you regarding a preacher who doesn't like kids. But, most of the congregation at our town's church are (now) grandparents, and I guess they don't mind.

You know, there is a lot of the new music that I like too. It's really not (so much) about the music, although I truly do miss the old hymns. And, given that this is Idaho, and we need to chain up just to get out of our driveway in the winter (and unchain as soon as we get to the paved highway) I can appreciate the casual approach to clothing in the winter time as well.

It's far more about the idea that the Sunday morning worship service was a sanctified thing. The definition of sanctified is "set apart for God". Sunday morning worship in the churches that I went to in California was a very different activity than anything else I did during the week. It wasn't a casual affair. It was special.

But, most of the churches around here that are not of the liturgical variety (or Mormon) have gotten into what I've dubbed the 'coffee-house' church. I call them coffee-house churches because almost all of them have coffee available to drink during the services as well as cookies to munch on. We lost the battle over the cookies the very first day we attended our 'fellowship'. They were all laid out, and the kids asked for cookies as soon as we walked through the door. At first I said no, but then their best friends came up, each with cookies, and I noticed that pretty much all the kids and most of the adults were all munching on cookies as well. When the youth minister introduced herself and told the kids to help themselves to some cookies, Steve and I looked at each other, shrugged our shoulders and said to go ahead.

There simply is not a sense in this church, or in the other churches that we've visited like this, of being engaged in something that was truly sanctified. Some folks get emotionally worked up during the music, but I don't.

It just seems as though the music is manipulative, making the 'celebration' all about a personally emotional, 'feel-good' experience, instead of a coming together as a corporate body to worship God in an orderly manner. (1 Corinthians 14:40)

As I mentioned before, if this 'coffee-house' approach to church was resulting in wide-spread revival across the land, then I would be happy for it. But, I don't see any revival taking place.
 
Hi
I attend a presbyterian church that is part of PRESBYTERIAN CHURCH IN AMERICA (PCA)
 
I like the PCA a lot. I was a member of one when I lived in North Carolina, and my niece and her family attend one in Boise. If Boise wasn't so far away, we'd probably go there.
 
I emotionally and mentally get into the music, really deep. And also I like Pentecostal churches,because they really let the Holy Ghost lead, but I don't belong to one. And I like a the church to be on one accord, and living by the Word of God. And Handy, are they eating those cookies while the service is going on ?
 
handy said:
Lewis W said:
And Handy, are they eating those cookies while the service is going on ?

Yep!
[/That does not seem to be appropriate to me. I mean in the Bible people were not eating when the Word of God was being taught. In Biblical times you would have got into some real big trouble for disrespecting the Word of God, by eating while the Word was being preached. But I don't think that it is a sin, it just does not sem right.
color]
 
Well, first of all, these places called 'Worship Centres' or 'Fellowships' or 'Assemblies' or any similar-sounding names, are permanently off my list. I am not in to these independent churches, because they answer to no-one, and do their own thing, and have very nebulous doctrinal statements, and they use this crappy music on a big screen descending from the ceiling; (how dare they criticise Catholics for repeating Hail Mary, when they sing choruses over and over and over, ad nauseam). Feh! The mainline, liberal denominations are just that: liberal. They 'ordain' women, and if I see that coming up the aisle, I will walk right out the door. They have changed their services, ALL based, more or less, on the RC Novus Ordo Mass. Rome catches the flu, and other denominations catch a cold. Many Fundamentalists are King James Only, and that is ridiculous. They are also hung up on legalism and nit-picky, ridiculous rules that don't amount to a hill of beans. Ya can't do this, and you can't do that, and you can't do this over here, or that over there. So what CAN you do already? For me, it means a conservative breakaway group from an older body which has gone liberal. My vote goes with the Missouri Synod of the Lutheran Church, the Wisconsin Synod, Traditional, or, 'Continuing' Anglicanism, or a dissenting Presbyterian group (PCA, EPC, etc) or one of the smaller Methodistic-type churches.

I have said over the years many times on here that 'religion' (understand) is a CULTURAL thing as well. I grew up in an ethnic RC urban parish. There were socials in the church basement (WITH alcohol) dances, etc., and it was a fun, rollicking, tight-knit bunch who loved to laugh and joke and have fun, and who mostly lived in the neighbourhood. Evangelicals are not 'funny': religious humour is 'blashphemous' and everything 'we' did as Catholics was wrong or sinful. I still love telling that they served booze at parish socials, just to see Evangelical eyes widen with shock and disapproval. Evangelicalism or Fundamentalism to me still is a very narrow-minded, humourless form of Christianity, compared with my upbringing, which saw good in God's creation, not wrongness or evil. And I have NEVER been able to identify with it. Socially? Give me a rough-and-tumble Catholic community of people who love and enjoy life, then some of these sectarian pompous butts where everything is a sin. Feh!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
...and now with the addition to your post, you're just being a putz. :tongue You're posting now just to get a reaction. That's a violation of the ToS. We can be just as humorous as the next person, but we choose to honor the Word when it says to not be conformed to the world. Maybe if the RCC would read the Bible some more, they'd realize that too.

Lets get back to the OP and not hijack the thread any longer. :-?
 

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