Signs in the Heavens(just for info)

[justvisiting]

Luke 21:11  And great earthquakes shall be in divers places, and famines, and pestilences; and fearful sights and great signs shall there be from heaven.
Luke 21:25  And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring;
26 Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken.
Matthew 24:29  Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
Mark 13:24  ¶But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light,
25  And the stars of heaven shall fall, and the powers that are in heaven shall be shaken.
26  And then shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory.
Isaiah 13:6  ¶Howl ye; for the day of the LORD is at hand; it shall come as a destruction from the Almighty.
7  Therefore shall all hands be faint, and every man's heart shall melt:
8  And they shall be afraid: pangs and sorrows shall take hold of them; they shall be in pain as a woman that travaileth: they shall be amazed one at another; their faces shall be as flames.
9  Behold, the day of the LORD cometh, cruel both with wrath and fierce anger, to lay the land desolate: and he shall destroy the sinners thereof out of it.
10  For the stars of heaven and the constellations thereof shall not give their light: the sun shall be darkened in his going forth, and the moon shall not cause her light to shine.
11  And I will punish the world for their evil, and the wicked for their iniquity; and I will cause the arrogancy of the proud to cease, and will lay low the haughtiness of the terrible.
12  I will make a man more precious than fine gold; even a man than the golden wedge of Ophir.
13  Therefore I will shake the heavens, and the earth shall remove out of her place, in the wrath of the LORD of hosts, and in the day of his fierce anger.
14  And it shall be as the chased roe, and as a sheep that no man taketh up: they shall every man turn to his own people, and flee every one into his own land.
Isaiah 65:17  ¶For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind.
Isaiah 66:22  For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, saith the LORD, so shall your seed and your name remain.
Joel 2:10  The earth shall quake before them; the heavens shall tremble: the sun and the moon shall be dark, and the stars shall withdraw their shining:
11  And the LORD shall utter his voice before his army: for his camp is very great: for he is strong that executeth his word: for the day of the LORD is great and very terrible; and who can abide it?
Joel 2:30  And I will shew wonders in the heavens and in the earth, blood, and fire, and pillars of smoke.
31  The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and the terrible day of the LORD come.
Matthew 5:18  For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
Hebrews 12:25  See that ye refuse not him that speaketh. For if they escaped not who refused him that spake on earth, much more shall not we escape, if we turn away from him that speaketh from heaven:
26  Whose voice then shook the earth: but now he hath promised, saying, Yet once more I shake not the earth only, but also heaven.
27  And this word, Yet once more, signifieth the removing of those things that are shaken, as of things that are made, that those things which cannot be shaken may remain.
28  Wherefore we receiving a kingdom which cannot be moved, let us have grace, whereby we may serve God acceptably with reverence and godly fear:
29  For our God is a consuming fire.
2 Peter 3:6  Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished:
7  But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.
8  ¶But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.
9  ¶The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
10  But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
11  ¶Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,
12  Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?
13  Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.
Revelation 6:12  And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;
13  And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.
14  And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.
Revelation 8:10  And the third angel sounded, and there fell a great star from heaven, burning as it were a lamp, and it fell upon the third part of the rivers, and upon the fountains of waters;
11  And the name of the star is called Wormwood: and the third part of the waters became wormwood; and many men died of the waters, because they were made bitter.
12  And the fourth angel sounded, and the third part of the sun was smitten, and the third part of the moon, and the third part of the stars; so as the third part of them was darkened, and the day shone not for a third part of it, and the night likewise.
Revelation 16:21  And there fell upon men a great hail out of heaven, every stone about the weight of a talent: and men blasphemed God because of the plague of the hail; for the plague thereof was exceeding great.
Revelation 21:1  ¶And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.
Revelation 21:10  And he carried me away in the spirit to a great and high mountain, and shewed me that great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God,
Revelation 22:10  And he saith unto me, Seal not the sayings of the prophecy of this book: for the time is at hand.
11  He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still.
12  And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.
13  I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last.

 

[justvisiting]

All I wanted to show you, was how many scriptures talk about signs in the heavens and the earth, before the Lord returns...and some when He returns. I don't want to argue about it, just look closely at the signs mentioned...the sun, the moon, the stars, men's hearts failing them from fear, wormwood, earth burned up with fire,heavens rolled up as a scroll, etc.
Please, would the preterists just save their views. This is only to show how many scriptures there are on these signs. We all know where we stand. My view is right.

 

[Drew]

All I wanted to show you, was how many scriptures talk about signs in the heavens and the earth, before the Lord returns...and some when He returns. I don't want to argue about it, just look closely at the signs mentioned...the sun, the moon, the stars, men's hearts failing them from fear, wormwood, earth burned up with fire,heavens rolled up as a scroll, etc.
Please, would the preterists just save their views. This is only to show how many scriptures there are on these signs. We all know where we stand. My view is right.

You cannot expect to make such a post in an open forum and then ask the "preterists save their views", especially when you then baldly claim to be right, even if this softened a bit by the laughing face. Remember, in another recent thread, you claimed that I brought pre-suppositions to certain texts and have then not supported such a claim with any actual evidence.

And I suggest that, if you take Old Testament language at all seriously, your literalist take on these texts is, in fact, mistaken.

As just one of many examples, consider Isaiah 13 – it is prophecy against Babylon – the enslavers of the people of Israel during the exile. Here is how the chapter opens:

The (A)oracle concerning Babylon which (C)Isaiah the son of Amoz saw.

How does Isaiah characterize what will happen to Babylon?:

For the (T)stars of heaven and their constellations
Will not flash forth their light;
The (U)sun will be dark when it rises
And the moon will not shed its light.
Therefore I will make the (AC)heavens tremble,
And (AD)the earth will be shaken from its place
At the fury of the LORD of hosts
In (AE)the day of His burning anger.

That this is about the historical judgement against Babylon, and not a future end of the world scenario should be clear by this from the end of the chapter.

Behold, I am going to (AI)stir up the Medes against them,
Who will not value silver or (AJ)take pleasure in gold.
18And their bows will mow down the (AK)young men,
They will not even have compassion on the fruit of the womb,
Nor will their (AL)eye pity children.
19And (AM)Babylon, the (AN)beauty of kingdoms, the glory of the Chaldeans' pride,
Will be as when God (AO)overthrew Sodom and Gomorrah.
20It will (AP)never be inhabited or lived in from generation.

But there are many, many other examples. The weight of precedent is quite convincing. This apocalyptic imagery is routinely used in a highly metaphorical sense – not to the denote end of the end of the world, but rather to ascribe theological significance to “this-wordly†events.
In this case, judgement against the nation of Babylon, judgement already carried out, and with no stars literally falling from the sky.

Even without such examples, the very nature of the language strongly suggests that it is not to be taken literally.

 

[justvisiting]

Well, Drew. We have already been through this. I totally disagree with you. I also, don't even want to argue about it. You know what I believe. I know what you believe. I guess you'll find out I'm right if the heavens start doing weird things. Doesn't matter though. I consider preterism totally out to lunch, just as you consider my views. Enough said.
If you want to write someone else about your views, that is your perogative. Me, I'm not even listening.
Just give me the US open tennis results...and we'll get along fine.