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Sin, Unconquerable or Conquerable?

J

Jesse

Member
Being saved isn't going to stop us from sinning, or so it looks like, so who is right John or Paul?

1 John 3:8 the one who practices sin is of the devil; for the devil has sinned from the beginning. The Son of God appeared for this purpose, to destroy the works of the devil.9No one who is born of God practices sin, because His seed abides in him; and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

Romans 7:21-25 I find then the principle that evil is present in me, the one who wants to do good. For I joyfully concur with the law of God in the inner man, but I see a different law in the members of my body, waging war against the law of my mind and making me a prisoner of the law of sin which is in my members. Wretched man that I am! Who will set me free from the body of this death? Thanks be to God through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then, on the one hand I myself with my mind am serving the law of God, but on the other, with my flesh the law of sin.

 
After much thought and consideration of what John is saying (since what he says is what deviates from actual experience) he can only be talking about a lifestyle of righteousness vs. a lifestyle of sinful behavior.

Before I got saved my struggle was with doing right. Now that I'm saved, my struggle is with doing wrong.
 
Before knowing God, is to live in the world without acknowledging God's righteous commandments for us to live by and satan is the ruler in our lives. A Christ ruled life acknowledges God's commandments. The intent of the heart is changed by God and the believer has to relearn how to live life. That is not always an easy thing to do but that is what God expects and rightfully so. We are to shine His light into a dark world.
 
31 What shall we then say to these things? If God be for us, who can be against us?

32 He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things?

33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.

34 Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.

35 Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?

36 As it is written, For thy sake we are killed all the day long; we are accounted as sheep for the slaughter.

37 Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us.

38 For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come,

39 Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

1 John 5:4
Viewing the King James Version. Click to switch to 1611 King James Version of 1 John 5:4.

For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith. the end results ==== { conquerors } in and through Jesus we can have victory . read about Daniel how he purposed not to defile himself.
Conquerable
 
Karl said:
Sin was conquered once and for all at the Cross Col 2:15

It's all about how we walk, ...as a victor or defeated.
Click to expand...
I live as a victor, but still sin, but is that really victorious?

God gives us a way out of temptation, but sometimes we don't take the way out, and when we do that, it's like satan wins in that battle and we are not victorious in that instance. So wouldn't it be that we are victorious sometimes and others we are not?
 
ezra said:
31 What shall we then say to these things? If God be for us, who can be against us?

32 He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things?

33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.

34 Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.

35 Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?

36 As it is written, For thy sake we are killed all the day long; we are accounted as sheep for the slaughter.

37 Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us.

38 For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come,

39 Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

1 John 5:4
Viewing the King James Version. Click to switch to 1611 King James Version of 1 John 5:4.

For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith. the end results ==== { conquerors } in and through Jesus we can have victory . read about Daniel how he purposed not to defile himself.
Conquerable
Click to expand...
We are not conquerors because we sin or not, but instead we are conquerors because of our faith?

I still think we can overcome sin because Christ lives in me. God gives us a way out of temptation every time, it's just many times we don't take that way out (including myself of course), but I think that states a whole bunch about either 1). our lack of faith in God to help us overcome or 2). we don't believe God that sin matters so we do it anyway (which I guess is also a lack of faith).

That's how I am seeing this right now.
 
James 2
10 For whoever shall keep the whole law, and yet stumble in one point, he is guilty of all.
 
here is another key verse
Philippians 3:9
2 words tells us {in him } any thing outside this is us it only takes a small amount of faith the size of a mustard seed. WE ARE OUR OWN ENEMY :eek

And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:
 
ezra said:
glad i dont try to keep the whole law :amen:eek2
Click to expand...

Why not?
shrug2.gif


Romans 13
8 Owe no one anything except to love one another, for he who loves another has fulfilled the law.
9 For the commandments, “You shall not commit adultery,” “You shall not murder,” “You shall not steal,” “You shall not bear false witness,” “You shall not covet,” and if there is any other commandment, are all summed up in this saying, namely, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.”
10 Love does no harm to a neighbor; therefore love is the fulfillment of the law.


Kick_Can_emoticon.gif

.
 
Gary said:
James 2
10 For whoever shall keep the whole law, and yet stumble in one point, he is guilty of all.
Click to expand...
I don't really see this as breaking the Law, I see it as a supernatural power through faith in Christ. It's changing us from the inside out, conforming to Christ, it's not something we can do, it has to be God working on us.

I don't know for sure, but it seems when we sin, we need healing of some sort and when we repent, God not only forgives us but he heals us as well.
 
Gary said:
Why not?
shrug2.gif


Romans 13
8 Owe no one anything except to love one another, for he who loves another has fulfilled the law.
9 For the commandments, “You shall not commit adultery,” “You shall not murder,” “You shall not steal,” “You shall not bear false witness,” “You shall not covet,” and if there is any other commandment, are all summed up in this saying, namely, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.”
10 Love does no harm to a neighbor; therefore love is the fulfillment of the law.


Kick_Can_emoticon.gif

.
Click to expand...
Even so, Jesus fulfilled the Law IN us, so that we can follow it and walk as He walked.
 
Gary said:
Why not?
shrug2.gif


Romans 13
8 Owe no one anything except to love one another, for he who loves another has fulfilled the law.
9 For the commandments, “You shall not commit adultery,” “You shall not murder,” “You shall not steal,” “You shall not bear false witness,” “You shall not covet,” and if there is any other commandment, are all summed up in this saying, namely, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.”
10 Love does no harm to a neighbor; therefore love is the fulfillment of the law.


Kick_Can_emoticon.gif

.
Click to expand...
Jesse said:
Even so, Jesus fulfilled the Law IN us, so that we can follow it and walk as He walked.
Click to expand...

Love is the fulfillment of the Law. Why would anyone not want to strive for that? That's the point of my post.
.
 
Gary said:
Love is the fulfillment of the Law. Why would anyone not want to strive for that? That's the point of my post.
.
Click to expand...
I was trying to support your point (or so I thought I was). People miss the point that the law was fulfilled in us by Christ so that we CAN love others and love God.

If we are loving God and others, it's difficult to sin against them.
 
Jesse said:
I live as a victor, but still sin, but is that really victorious?

God gives us a way out of temptation, but sometimes we don't take the way out, and when we do that, it's like satan wins in that battle and we are not victorious in that instance. So wouldn't it be that we are victorious sometimes and others we are not?
Click to expand...

What did Paul say?

Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me. Rom 7:17

I've read a response here that says we are no longer under Law, but that makes me question what Law did the Holy Spirit write on my heart and write in my mind when I was born again?

This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them; Heb 10:16

Was it a different law than what is written in the Word??????

What I understand from Paul's teachings, please correct me if I'm wrong, is the Law was given to me to protect me from sin, that is, when the enemy of my soul tempts me the Holy Spirit brings to my mind a verse that will defuse the temptation, isn't that what Jesus did when He was tempted, isn't that what James is teaching us?

Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you. Jas 4:7

Submit means to obey, we obey the Holy Spirit when He brings to remembrance in our minds a verse we have stored in our hearts that will break the power of the temptation. On the other hand, if we haven't stored much of the Word in our hearts He won't have much to work with and we will be carnal Christians, stumbling all of the time in our walk with the Lord.
 
we have to realize why the letters was addressed the way they was...the jews wanted to keep the old law of ceremony .. today we could consider for us trying to keep our own righteousness which is the law. our righteousness is Jesus Christ :amen its IN HIM not in us
 
Karl said:
What I understand from Paul's teachings, please correct me if I'm wrong, is the Law was given to me to protect me from sin,
Click to expand...
the law was our school master till Christ came and redeemed us from the curse of the law. the law points to sin .if you want to use the word protect be my guest. the Holy SPIRIT gives us the power to defeat sin and yes we are not under the law but under Grace. the law is there but not to serve under the law .
 
ezra said:
the law was our school master till Christ came and redeemed us from the curse of the law. the law points to sin .if you want to use the word protect be my guest. the Holy SPIRIT gives us the power to defeat sin and yes we are not under the law but under Grace. the law is there but not to serve under the law .
Click to expand...


Absolutely!!!

I use the Word protect because my sin will find me out, so when I'm using the Word the Holy Spirit has given me to combat the temptation, I'm using the tool He has given me to protect myself from the consequence of my sin, ...if I should chose to sin.

Yes, I do love Grace, ...it was two years in my walk with the Lord before I ever heard about it. Thank you Jesus!
 
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