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Are we born into SIN or INNOCENCE?

This question comes from a post in another forum. To quote from the other post:

People who think we are born sinners are wrong. We are born innocent. Sin is IN this world, that's what born into sin means. There is sin IN this world. Spirits and principalities are what we are up against. Not that we are born sinners. We are tempted to sin. We have choices.

I am curious as to other's responses before providing my own feedback.
 
  1. When one is born, is he/she born of the flesh corrupt and mortal, or when one is born, is he/she born of the Spirit incorrupt and immortal?

    One is born of the flesh and is corrupt and mortal.
    [/*:m:efbf0]
  2. How could Jesus claim that all who did not come to the light were already condemned in John 3?

    Because those that do not come to the light are not born of God and are only born of the flesh.
    [/*:m:efbf0]
  3. Is it not possible for one, single, solitary person to live sin free after being born in the flesh?

    No, in the flesh dwells no good thing. The flesh is sold under sin.
    [/*:m:efbf0]
  4. Why are we born corrupt and mortal?

    Because we are decendents from Adam and Eve after they lost their innocence; therefore we could not inherit innocence from them. All decendents of Adam and Eve are not created by God, but are born of God's creation.[/*:m:efbf0]
 
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It was I that you quoted.

Relic said:
People who think we are born sinners are wrong. We are born innocent. Sin is IN this world, that's what born into sin means. There is sin IN this world. Spirits and principalities are what we are up against. Not that we are born sinners. We are tempted to sin. We have choices.

alonevoice said:
Are we born into SIN or INNOCENCE?
What are you wanting to know alonevoice? "IN" or, "INTO" or, "OF"



I said we are born innocent. I didn't say were were born into innocence. And I didn't say we are born of sin or, in sin.

Please do read my previous posting carefully.


=============


Genesis 1:26-28

26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.
27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.
28 And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.



Adam and Eve were created in the image of God. There is no sin in God.

It was not until the serpent tempted Eve was sin introduced to them. they had the choice. Just as we have the choice.

God did not change how we are born. We change because of choosing to follow the temtptation to sin. And since we have that freedom to choose to sin (to follow after the evildoer, Satan) , we are in need of a Savior, Christ Jesus.


We are born into a world that has sin in it. We still have a choice to not sin.

Philippians 4:13
I can do all things through Christ which strengtheneth me.
 
i believe that we're born sinners. although as babies we haven't broken the law of God, as descendents of Adam, because of his first sin, we are all born with an evil nature which is against God. we all come into this world with a sinful nature and thats the point, not whether or not we as newborns have committed an actual sin.


"We are not sinners because we sin. We sin because we are sinners." People do not come into this world good and then get a sinful nature upon their first willful sin that they commit. Rather, we come into the world with a sin nature and all of our sins are a result of having that sin nature. We act according to our natures. So because of our sin nature, we do sinful actions. A cow does not become a cow by mooing, but moos because he is a cow. Likewise we do not become sinners because we sin, but we sin because we are sinners.
-RC Sproul

Psalm 58:3- The wicked are estranged from the womb; These who speak lies go astray from birth.

Ephesians 2:3- Among them we too all formerly lived in the lusts of our flesh, indulging the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, even as the rest.

Genesis 8:21- ...the intent of man's heart is evil from his youth.

Infants die, therefore they must be sinners. Death--both physical and spiritual--is a result of sin (Romans 5:12; 6:23). Thus, death cannot come upon anyone unless they are guilty of sin. Since infants die, they therefore must be sinners. Someone may point to Christ, who was sinless and yet He died. But He willingly gave up His life, and He did it to conquer the curse of death that we were under. In fact, God imputed to Christ our sins on the cross, and Christ died in punishment of those sins. (Remember, imputation involves your legal standing, not moral character. Christ was not turned into a sinner on the cross--He remained perfectly holy in His nature. He was counted guilty, or blamed, for our sins.)

If humanity is not born in sin, wouldn't we expect there to be some people who have "beaten the odds" and never sinned? If we are born innocent and good, wouldn't you expect there to be at least some people to have continued in this state and be sinless today? I think all of us know that "all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God" (Romans 6:23). The fact that everybody sins needs some explanation. The best explanation is that we are sinners by nature--we are born that way. Someone might argue that the reason all people sin is because society is sinful, and thus society renders it impossible for anybody to keep themselves entirely pure. But that only pushes the question back one step. How did society get sinful in the first place? If people are born morally good, wouldn't we expect there to have been at least some societies develop which are morally good?

pretty good points that ive never really thought about in regards to being born sinners..
 
From another thread...

PotLuck said:
Nobody had to teach me how to lie, steal, bear false witness, make excuses, not to share and most of all the motivation to protect/bolster my pride. (which pretty much covers all the former entries).
I was perfectly capable of all these things. I had to be taught these inherent attributes were not good even though they felt right.
 

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