Some of the serious NT warnings to the churches

[vocalyocal]

opps made a mistake

 

[John Zain]

Jesus is addressing the churches, back then the church was primarily made up of believers,
unlike today as it is completely geared for the unbeliever and unsaved,
I would conclude Jesus is addressing born again believers, as in his rebukes to earlier churches, should they repent and return to their former ways they would/will inherit salvation
.......again the OSAS doctrine makes no sense in light of Jesus's rebukes,
why would Jesus warn folks who were part of the elect, makes no sense at all.

Exactly ... and that is what I have been trying to warn people about.

And I agree totally with post #99.

Not to mention that ... our churches should be replicas of the original NT churches.
I urge everyone to find one to attend ... chances are it will have to be small.
Experience serious Spirit-filled believers, as they are used in the spiritual gifts
... to help the church in general, and individuals who are seriously in need of all kinds of help.
The Lord is waiting for you to enter into real Spirit-led Christianity.

 

[Deborah13]

Salvation is not earned by obeying God's commandments. It is a gift that God gives to those who believe Him and love Him.

Salvation cannot be lost. No one loses it because he accidentally sinned and forgot to repent. Once a person becomes a child of God he remains so forever. God would not take away a believers inheritance of eternal life unless he willfully turns away from God and rejects him and his grace by no longer believing or loving Him by willfully and deliberately committing a serious sin.

The Bible does provide examples. " Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. And that is what some of you were. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God. (1Cor 6:9-11)"

Paul clearly stated he was warning those who were justified that if they persist in their wickedness they will not inherit the kingdom of God. Christians don't lose their inheritance because of their imperfections. They lose it because they reject God and no longer love him or live to please him. Repentance means turning away from one thing to another. Those who repent of loving God lose their inheritance. If they repent and turn from their wickedness and start loving God again then God will forgive them.

I don't hear Paul saying any such thing.
And if you lose your salvation you can't be resaved, no such thing. It's over and done with, period. Jesus, died once for all for all time.

 

[vocalyocal]

I don't hear Paul saying any such thing.
And if you lose your salvation you can't be resaved, no such thing. It's over and done with, period. Jesus, died once for all for all time.

So one of two things are only possible in light of this passage, one Paul was wrong, or two people who live in sins that lead to death will not inherit salvation.............what are you saying? believers can live as homosexuals and fornicate and commit adultry and still enter the kingdom of God?

 

[Deborah13]

So one of two things are only possible in light of this passage, one Paul was wrong, or two people who live in sins that lead to death will not inherit salvation.............what are you saying? believers can live as homosexuals and fornicate and commit adultry and still enter the kingdom of God?

Hebrews 6:4-12

New American Standard Bible (NASB)

4 For in the case of those who have once been enlightened and have tasted of the heavenly gift and have been made partakers of the Holy Spirit, 5 and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, 6 and then have fallen away, it is impossible to renew them again to repentance, since they again crucify to themselves the Son of God and put Him to open shame.

That's what I'm saying. So if you think that sin after being born again is classified as losing salvation then that person cannot be brought to repentance. The Holy Spirit no longer has influence in their life, they reject it. They won't want to come back. Get it. Someone can be in sin and not reject their belief that Jesus is their Savior. If one rejects God they can only do it by not believing anymore that He is their salvation, they reject the blood of the Savior. Maybe by turning to another belief, another god, or atheist. In this case in Hebrews I believe that the author was warning them not to go back to animal blood for atonement. Also notice that the person d.escribed is a very mature believer. The Bible says there is ONE sin unto death. Could repeated willful sin lead to rejecting the Savior? I don't know and it's not my place to judge someone else's salvation. I have the belief in my heart that Jesus will keep who the Father has given Him.

 

[vocalyocal]

Rom 2:6-9 ^ God will give eternal life to those who persistently continue in going good, but wrath and anger to the selfish who do not obey the truth and follow evil.

Rom 8:13-14 ^ If you live according to the flesh, you will die,
but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live
(for as many as are led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God).

Rom 12:1-2 ^ It is the good, acceptable, perfect will of God that you present your bodies as a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable to God (its your reasonable service).

1 Cor 6:9-10 ^ Do not be deceived, sinners will not inherit the kingdom of God.

1 Cor 9:27 ^ Paul forced his body unto subjection so he would not be disqualified.

1 Cor 12:12 ^ Therefore let him who thinks he stands take heed lest he fall.
You are saved by the gospel, if you hold fast that word which I preached to you, unless you believed in vain.

2 Cor 11:3 ^ Satan deceived Eve by his craftiness, so beware that your minds may not be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.

2 Cor 13:5 ^ Examine yourself to see if you are in the faith, maybe you are disqualified.

Gal 5:19-21 ^ One who practices works of the flesh will not inherit kingdom of God.

Gal 5:24 ^ To belong to Christ, crucify the passions and desires of the flesh.

Gal 6:7-9 ^ Do not be deceived, God is not mocked - he who sows to his flesh
will reap corruption, and he who sows to the Spirit will reap eternal life,
if he does not lose heart.

Eph 5:3-6 ^ Do not be deceived, no sinner has any inheritance in the kingdom of God.

Eph 5:8-9 ^ Walk as children of light, finding out what is acceptable to the Lord.

Eph 5:26-27 ^ Jesus will present to Himself a glorious church without
spot or wrinkle, so that she should be holy and without blemish.

Phil 2:12 ^ Work out your salvation with fear and trembling - God is working in you.

Phil 2:14-16 ^ Be blameless and pure w/o fault, holding firmly to the word of life.

Col 1:22-23 ^ Jesus will present you holy, blameless, and above reproach,
if you continue in the faith, grounded and steadfast and unmoveable.

Col 3:5-6 ^ The wrath of God is coming upon those who don’t crucify their flesh.

Heb 3:12-15 ^ Beware of any evil heart of unbelief in departing from the living God,
lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin.
For we have become partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence steadfast to the end.

Heb 4:11 ^ Be diligent lest anyone fall according to examples of disobedience.

Heb 6:4-8 ^ Those who have been enlightened, have experienced the Holy Spirit,
have appreciated the Bible, if they fall away can never return to repentance
(they have re-crucified the Son of God and subjected Him to public disgrace).

Heb 12:14 ^ Pursue holiness, without which no one will see the Lord.

1 Pet 1:15-16 ^ Be holy in all your conduct, because “Be holy, for I am holyâ€.

Rev 2—3
JC: Christians must be overcomers in order to sit on Jesus’ throne, etc.
JC: Christians must repent of their sins, wrong-doings, etc.
JC: Christians who are lukewarm Jesus will vomit out of His mouth.

Rev 21:7-8 ^ Overcomers will inherit all things, sinners will be in lake of fire.

Rev 21:27 ^ The impure, shameful, deceitful will never enter the New Jerusalem.

Rev 22:14-15 ^ The obedient have right to the tree of life, and may enter the City.

These Scripture passages support the doctrine of conditional security.

If you believe in eternal security (OSAS) …
do you have any good explanations for why these verses are written to the churches?

the old covenant had a clause, the new covenant has a clause too, It will cost you everything!

 

[farouk]

Hebrews 6:4-12

New American Standard Bible (NASB)

4 For in the case of those who have once been enlightened and have tasted of the heavenly gift and have been made partakers of the Holy Spirit, 5 and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, 6 and then have fallen away, it is impossible to renew them again to repentance, since they again crucify to themselves the Son of God and put Him to open shame.

That's what I'm saying. So if you think that sin after being born again is classified as losing salvation then that person cannot be brought to repentance. The Holy Spirit no longer has influence in their life, they reject it. They won't want to come back. Get it. Someone can be in sin and not reject their belief that Jesus is their Savior. If one rejects God they can only do it by not believing anymore that He is their salvation, they reject the blood of the Savior. Maybe by turning to another belief, another god, or atheist. In this case in Hebrews I believe that the author was warning them not to go back to animal blood for atonement. Also notice that the person d.escribed is a very mature believer. The Bible says there is ONE sin unto death. Could repeated willful sin lead to rejecting the Savior? I don't know and it's not my place to judge someone else's salvation. I have the belief in my heart that Jesus will keep who the Father has given Him.

Deborah:

Indeed, the Lord Jesus said: 'No man is able to pluck them from my Father's hand' (John 10.29).

Blessings.

 

[John Zain]

Hebrews 6:4-12
4 For in the case of those who have once been enlightened and have tasted of the heavenly gift and have been made partakers of the Holy Spirit, 5 and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, 6 and then have fallen away, it is impossible to renew them again to repentance, since they again crucify to themselves the Son of God and put Him to open shame.

If one rejects God they can only do it by not believing anymore that He is their salvation, they reject the blood of the Savior. Maybe by turning to another belief, another god, or atheist.

2 years ago, I communicated at length with a man who claimed to have been Spirit-filled,
but after researching church history, lost his faith-belief, and switched to be a Muslim.
He and his wife are hangin' out now in some cabin in Idaho (with a computer).
What does this do to his salvation? ... I can only guess.

P.S. I wonder if Satan can pluck someone out of Jesus' hand?

 

[Deborah13]

2 years ago, I communicated at length with a man who claimed to have been Spirit-filled,
but after researching church history, lost his faith-belief, and switched to be a Muslim.
He and his wife are hangin' out now in some cabin in Idaho (with a computer).
What does this do to his salvation? ... I can only guess.

P.S. I wonder if Satan can pluck someone out of Jesus' hand?

What?! Absolutely not! Satan is NOT more powerful than our LORD.

 

[reba]

What?! Absolutely not! Satan is NOT more powerful than our LORD.

AMEN !

 

[Jethro Bodine]

P.S. I wonder if Satan can pluck someone out of Jesus' hand?

Against their will? Absolutely not. Jesus is able to keep those whom the Father has given to him.

28 ...they shall never perish; no one can snatch them out of my hand. 29 My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all; no one can snatch them out of my Father’s hand." (John 10:28-29 NIV1984)


Can a genuinely justified person walk out of Jesus' hand of their own volition?

I don't know, but if they can I'm convinced they're in for a real fight. They're going to have to resist the love and discipline of God pretty hard to do it.

Lol, just saw that farouk already posted that scripture. I wonder why the question still lingers?

 

[Deborah13]

What?! Absolutely not! Satan is NOT more powerful than our LORD.

John 6:37-40

King James Version (KJV)

37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.
38 For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.
39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

 

[John Zain]

Gee, guys 'n gals, thanks for those Scriptures!

News Flash! ... Man has free will to do whatever his little self wants to do.

He can choose to commit suicide.
He can choose to believe someone and walk away from his faith.
Ditto for choosing to listen to Satan.

The only question is ...
Can he choose to remain estranged from the Lord until his last breath?

IMO, this is a valid question ... even though you have read Scriptures that say he can!
But, believing them is another story.

 

[reba]

Php_1:6 Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it
until the day of Jesus Christ:
Heb_12:2 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.

Joh 6:37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.

 

[farouk]

Php_1:6 Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it
until the day of Jesus Christ:
Heb_12:2 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.

Joh 6:37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.

reba:

Great verses! I've often thought about all three of them.

Blessings.

 

[Deborah13]

Php_1:6 Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it
until the day of Jesus Christ:
Heb_12:2 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.


Joh 6:37All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.

More great verses of the faithfulness of our God.

 

[Deborah13]

Gee, guys 'n gals, thanks for those Scriptures!

News Flash! ... Man has free will to do whatever his little self wants to do.

He can choose to commit suicide.
He can choose to believe someone and walk away from his faith.
Ditto for choosing to listen to Satan.

The only question is ...
Can he choose to remain estranged from the Lord until his last breath?

IMO, this is a valid question ... even though you have read Scriptures that say he can!
But, believing them is another story.

Yes we do have the free will to do anything that we want and God in His will is able to use any means necessary to show us His unfailing love and faithfulness to us whatever that may entail, loving people praying for us, putting us in situations that we must reach out to HIm, correction to get our attention. Ps.23 - His rod and His staff they comfort me.
But however it happens He is faithful to get the job done, including a shortened life if necessary to remove someone from this earth before they go to far. He is able to keep us. In fact it's a promise.
It's a very humbling experience to be so loved. When His grace is poured out so abundantly in your life that you are on your face before Him, you know who your LORD is.

 

[farouk]

More great verses of the faithfulness of our God.

'Great is thy faithfulness' (Lamentations 3.23), indeed.

Blessings.

 

[4Jesus]

I don't hear Paul saying any such thing.
And if you lose your salvation you can't be resaved, no such thing. It's over and done with, period. Jesus, died once for all for all time.

Paul addressed 1Cor 6:9-11 to people who were baptized, justified, and sanctified. Doesn't justified and sanctified mean that one is saved? Do you think such a person could not be saved?

He said if these people continued in their wickedness that they would "not inherit the kingdom of God." The loss of faith wasn't mentioned, only their actions.

So, a Christian who lives a wicked life by fornicating and committing adultery will not inherit the kingdom of God. Since Paul said these people were saved, it seems they must have fallen away from grace and lost their inheritance of eternal life.

Now, if the definition of faith includes believing what Paul taught in 1Cor 6:9-11 then no one who really believes would chose to continue in their wickedness. They would repent as soon as they learned that such behavior would mean they will spend an eternity in Hell. So anyone who understands 1Cor 6:9-11 and chooses to continue in these sins doesn't believe. Why do you think John wrote, "No one who lives in him keeps on sinning. No one who continues to sin has either seen him or known him. (1John 3:6)" The types of wicked people Paul described who continue in their sins either don't know Jesus or don't believe what he taught through his apostles. These sins occur because of a lack of faith. The tempted persons says to himself "God won't punish me in Hell for this" so I will do it even though I know it's against God's law.

"Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. And that is what some of you were. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God. (1Cor 6:9-11)"

 

[4Jesus]

Hebrews 6:4-12

New American Standard Bible (NASB)

4 For in the case of those who have once been enlightened and have tasted of the heavenly gift and have been made partakers of the Holy Spirit, 5 and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, 6 and then have fallen away, it is impossible to renew them again to repentance, since they again crucify to themselves the Son of God and put Him to open shame.

That's what I'm saying. So if you think that sin after being born again is classified as losing salvation then that person cannot be brought to repentance. The Holy Spirit no longer has influence in their life, they reject it. They won't want to come back. Get it. Someone can be in sin and not reject their belief that Jesus is their Savior. If one rejects God they can only do it by not believing anymore that He is their salvation, they reject the blood of the Savior. Maybe by turning to another belief, another god, or atheist. In this case in Hebrews I believe that the author was warning them not to go back to animal blood for atonement. Also notice that the person d.escribed is a very mature believer. The Bible says there is ONE sin unto death. Could repeated willful sin lead to rejecting the Savior? I don't know and it's not my place to judge someone else's salvation. I have the belief in my heart that Jesus will keep who the Father has given Him.

I think you misunderstand this passage. It is used by people who believe salvation can be lost and by those who believe in eternal security but it teaches neither view. I'm not sure the description in verse 4-5 refers to all Christians. Have all Christians been enlightened, tasted the heavenly gift, and the powers of the ages to come? I think the description may only apply to mature Christians who have a deep understanding of the things of God. It only states a hypothetical situation that may never actually occur. It says IF it's possible for these people to fall away then they can't be brought back. I think a babe in Christ who hasn't experienced everything described may fall away and regain their salvation by repenting.