electricaluser
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(Post removed for guideline violations and failing to follow a moderator's instructions. Obadiah)
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Desire to be a vessel of honor unto the Lord Jesus Christ?
Join For His Glory for a discussion on how
https://christianforums.net/threads/a-vessel-of-honor.110278/
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Taking the time to pray? Christ is the answer in times of need
https://christianforums.net/threads/psalm-70-1-save-me-o-god-lord-help-me-now.108509/
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Depending upon the Holy Spirit for all you do?
Read through the following study by Tenchi for more on this topic
https://christianforums.net/threads/without-the-holy-spirit-we-can-do-nothing.109419/
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How are famous preachers sometimes effected by sin?
Join Sola Scriptura for a discussion on the subject
https://christianforums.net/threads/anointed-preaching-teaching.109331/#post-1912042
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Some shipwreck their faith
- Thread starter OzSpen
- Start date
Since when was desire to learn linked to salvation? I'd like to read your biblical reasons.
See #14.
Since you state that you are not a Christian, what is your voice in your head telling you about good and evil?
That's not what Ephesians 2:8-9 (ESV) teaches.
A shipwreck makes a boat useless. Shipwreck of the faith makes faith useless. Your 'slight error' is not what shipwreck means.
A shipwreck makes a boat useless. Shipwreck of the faith makes faith useless. Your 'slight error' is not what shipwreck means.
If you read the two verses, 1 Tim 1:19-20 (ESV), you will find exactly what 'shipwreck of their faith' means for Hymenaeus and Alexander. They are 'handed over to Satan that they may learn not to blaspheme' (v. 20). So shipwreck of their faith = blaspheming the faith (Jesus) and they are Satan's possession, i.e. 'handed over to Satan'.
If you read the two verses, 1 Tim 1:19-20 (ESV), you will find exactly what 'shipwreck of their faith' means for Hymenaeus and Alexander. They are 'handed over to Satan that they may learn not to blaspheme' (v. 20). So shipwreck of their faith = blaspheming the faith (Jesus) and they are Satan's possession, i.e. 'handed over to Satan'.
Yes blaspheme is what puts their faith off course and into the rocks. Blaspheme can only happen by saying something attributed to God, that actually comes out of vanity. Therefore, I said that even a small error over a long distance can leave a ship/faith way off course. James 3:3. Or, as in this case a major mistake shipwrecks a faith.
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'To blasphme' is the present tense infinitive (meaning, to continue to blaspheme) from the Greek verb blasphemeo, which means 'in relation to men injure the reputation of, revile, defame' and in 1 Tim 1:20 (ESV), 'of the true God what pertains to him ... God himself' (Arndt & Gingrich, Zondervan 1957:142).
So those who shipwreck their faith, according to 1 Tim 1;20 (ESV) are those who continue to defame the reputation of the true God and what pertains to him.
Nothing is said here of vanity, but of people who injure the reputation of the true God by reviling Him.
Oz
I don't think they were reviling God. Blaspheme is an act usually thinking you know something about God that you are in error about. Hence it is vanity.
Why won't you accept the etymology of the Greek word, to blaspheme, that I provided? Do you know better than the Greek grammarians and etymologists? You are not basing your understanding of 'blaspheme' on the meaning of the Greek word. Your idea seems to be coming out of your own mind and you don't want to accept what the Greek lexicons and word studies state for the meaning of blaspheme.
blaspheme exists because of vanity as does all sin. Blaspheme existed before the word was invented. Many scholars have debated the meaning. Below is why I don't think they reviled God. 2 Timothy 2:17-18.
17 And their word will eat as doth a canker: of whom is Hymenaeus and Philetus;
18 Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some.
17 And their word will eat as doth a canker: of whom is Hymenaeus and Philetus;
18 Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some.
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However, in 1 Tim 1:20 (ESV), Paul calls this blasphemy, i.e. 'To blasphme' is the present tense infinitive (meaning, to continue to blaspheme) from the Greek verb blasphemeo, which means 'in relation to men injure the reputation of, revile, defame' and in 1 Tim 1:20 (ESV), 'of the true God what pertains to him ... God himself' (Arndt & Gingrich, Zondervan 1957:142).
You continue to deny the meaning of 'to blaspheme' and Hymenaeus and Alexander being handed over to Satan to learn not to blaspheme because they defamed the reputation of God.
Bye!
Oz
Oz, take it easy. What have I said that would lead you to conclude what you claim? I'm not denying the meaning of blasphemy. It just so happens that this term has always been debated as to whether blasphemy is intentional or out of ignorance of God. Of course they continue to blaspheme since they are believing errantly. Until corrected they will continue to blaspheme. Oz, I'm not even disagreeing with you.
It has nothing to do with whether it was intentional or not. They had blasphemed, reviled the reputation of God, so Paul states they were 'handed over to Satan that they may learn not to blaspheme' (1 Tim 1:20 ESV). There was no need for this instruction if they had not shipwrecked their faith by blaspheming the God of their faith.
Oh it matters a great deal whether it was intentional or not. We're not supposed to go about teaching things about God that we know nothing about. We're not to presume that we can speak for God, just because we've read the bible and think we know something. One has to be anointed by God. So yeah, the meaning of the word blasphemy is very important because most blasphemy is done by men thinking they are doing good and speaking righteousness. Look at the Pharisees.
This is my definition of blasphemy. To speak in a way that speaks for God, in any matter, yet sullies His Name.
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So, on the one hand, "We're not supposed to go about teaching things about God that we know nothing about. We're not to presume that we can speak for God, just because we've read the bible and think we know something. One has to be anointed by God," yet you want to use your own definition of blasphemy instead of the Bible's. Don't you think that those are rather contradictory statements?
No I don't think they are contradictory. First off, the term I'm using is biblical. It's not as if I have never researched the term. I have extensively. And although it is mine, it is my most sincere in my perception. If you don't think it is accurate, then you will be kind enough to show me where it does not qualify as blasphemy, in scripture, and correct me. As for blasphemy, in my view, the tongue is the greatest carnal thing to master.
James 3:6King James Version (KJV)
6 And the tongue is a fire, a world of iniquity: so is the tongue among our members, that it defileth the whole body, and setteth on fire the course of nature; and it is set on fire of hell.
Luke 16:24
And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.
Proverbs 10:20 The tongue of the just is as choice silver: the heart of the wicked is little worth
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