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Souls, who has them?

A

Alannah

Guest
I consider the soul as our vey essence, our being or conscience, so to speak. I understand that we become living souls throught the breath of life by God. Genesis 2:7

I'm not sure if I can apply this to animals, let alone inanimate objects. God says nothing in His word about His breath of live being breathed into anyone or thing other than Man.
 
"Genesis 1:30 And to every beast of the earth and to every fowl of the air and to everthing that creepeth upon the earth, wherein there is life,"

From this I gather that there is a definate possibility that animals have souls, but so far, (I havn't studied it that much yet) I don't see any Biblical evidence of inanimate objects having souls.
What I wonder now is, can animals go to heaven? Can they choose to reject God? Do they have a free will as we do?
 
Plants = Body
Animals = Body & Soul
Human = Body, Soul & Dead Spirit
Christian = Body, Soul & Reborn Spirit

Angels = Spirit & ability to take on Body at will

Diagram of the Christian
860269365_l.gif
 
The teaching of the immortal soul is dealt with in several papers incluing: The Soul and The Socratic Doctrine of the Soul

BTW, there is no such thing as a holy pig. They are unclean animals (Leviticus 11:7, Deuteronomy 14:8, Isaiah 65:4, Isaiah 66:17, Acts 10:14).

Note: In Acts 10:14, Peter refers to unclean meat such as pigs, whereas the Lord in his vision is speaking of the Gentiles when he says, "“What God has cleansed you must not call common.â€Â

But that is another subject for another thread.

The doctrine of the immortal soul is the highest form of polytheism possible.

The sciptures tell us only the Most High God - the Father has inherent immortality (1 Timothy 6:16, NKJV). Therefore, if the immortal soul teaching were true then all people are true Gods.

The immortal soul teaching precludes dependence upon God for one’s continued existence. It therefore strikes at the heart of God’s plan of salvation which requires complete faith in Him alone for salvation from death.

If life continues for everyone after physical death in the form of a conscious thinking immortal spirit entity, regardless of their judicial position before God, then this immortal soul lives independently of God. Thus everyone is a God with life inherent and therefore this teaching is the highest form of polytheism possible

This was the first lie Satan uttered to mankind in the Garden of Eden. He said to Eve, “you will not surely die†and mankind has believed it since regardless of belief in the Bible, in any other form of religion, and often even atheism. To find anyone in this world who does not believe in an immortal soul is rather rare – outside those who understand the Biblical position that flesh and blood is entirely mortal without redemption from death through Christ’s blood according to God.

It really behooves everyone reading this to commit themselves to carefully examining the two papers listed above. That is, if you believe your position before Almighty God is of importance to you.

R7-12
 
belovedwolfofgod said:
interesting diagram.

This is something he made up, though. Nothing to support it - all he did is misinterpret Bible. Christians are exactly same people as other humans, they don't differ in anything. Claiming they are not is blasphemy and goes stricly against the Tanakh.
 
BTW, there is no such thing as holy pig. They are unclean animals (Leviticus 11:7, Deuteronomy 14:8, Isaiah 65:4, Isaiah 66:17, Acts 10:14).

Pigs are said to be closely related to humans, as in genes - maybe that's why we are forbidden to eat them? There had to be some daily reason to forbid Jews of eating them, why not them being unclean, then. You shouldn't understand everything in Bible literally or you would think Genesis is a true story, which it is not.

Note: In Acts 10:14, Peter refers to unclean meat such as pigs, whereas the Lord in his vision is speaking of the Gentiles when he says, "“What God has cleansed you must not call common.â€Â

Sorry, but try not to quote NT because it is irrelevant. Christianity is not fulfillment of Judaism, so you can't connect them. Christianity is corruption and defilement of Judaistic teachings. Simply read http://www.askmoses.com and you will understand why I think that way, me being upbringed as a Christian and leaving this faith.

The doctrine of the immortal soul is the highest form of polytheism possible
.

Do you even know what polytheism is? Immortal soul and soul overall is the concept of Pnentheistic God, which Jewish God is. Salvation is reconnection with God/Source/Oneness/Brahma. This is what Hindu call moksha.

The sciptures tell us only the Most High God - the Father has inherent immortality (1 Timothy 6:16, NKJV). Therefore, if the immortal soul teaching were true then all people are true Gods.

And all people are true God, portions of God, simplz read about it askmoses.com - currently you need alot to learn in this area. Judaism and Hinduism clearly tells us that souls are pats of the infinite God, they sustain existance, not life, but existance, Creation.

The immortal soul teaching precludes dependence upon God for one’s continued existence. It therefore strikes at the heart of God’s plan of salvation which requires complete faith in Him alone for salvation from death.

Not at all.

If life continues for everyone after physical death in the form of a conscious thinking immortal spirit entity, regardless of their judicial position before God, then this immortal soul lives independently of God. Thus everyone is a God with life inherent and therefore this teaching is the highest form of polytheism possible

We are parts of God, God won't punish itself for it's wrong deeds. read about reincarnation (samsara) to understand the fact everyone/everything will aquire salvation in God.

This was the first lie Satan uttered to mankind in the Garden of Eden. He said to Eve, “you will not surely die†and mankind has believed it since regardless of belief in the Bible, in any other form of religion, and often even atheism. To find anyone in this world who does not believe in an immortal soul is rather rare – outside those who understand the Biblical position that flesh and blood is entirely mortal without redemption from death through Christ’s blood according to God.

It was not Satan, it was snake - learn to read properly before you make such silly statements. Secon - snake didn't lie at all, Adam and Eve died because God has cursed them, not because they ate. Why do you mention Christian stance in here, it has nothing to do with Judaism, it's blasphemy to Tanakh through idol-worship of Jesus.

It really behooves everyone reading this to commit themselves to carefully examining the two papers listed above. That is, if you believe your position before Almighty God is of importance to you.

You really talk with big words, but you share no message at all.
 
Vic,

You have some more headache. Another contravercial one for you. :wink:
 
I have come to believe that the soul, conceived of as an immortal entity that survives "physical" death, simply does not exist.
 
gingercat said:
Vic,

You have some more headache. Another contravercial one for you. :wink:
I come to the same conclusion while reading this.

KaerbEmEvig, just a friendly reminder:

This is a Christian site. We have guidlines (rules) which state we are not to openly discredit Christianity nor are we to promote other "religions".

Peace,
Vic
 
KaerbEmEvig said:
You really talk with big words, but you share no message at all.
R7-12 may indeed use "really big words", but if I were you, I would tread carefully, and read some of his (her) other posts. I have found his (her?) intelllect to be powerful and his (her) knowledge expansive.
 
vic said:
gingercat said:
Vic,

You have some more headache. Another contravercial one for you. :wink:
I come to the same conclusion while reading this.

KaerbEmEvig, just a friendly reminder:

This is a Christian site. We have guidlines (rules) which state we are not to openly discredit Christianity nor are we to promote other "religions".

Peace,
Vic

I understand that. I simply reminded people, that they should remember that Christianity is contraditionary to Judaism, and they shold try to base their knowledge on OT rather than Nt, which contradicts itself so many times (Gospels, Acts and so on).
 
KaerbEmEvig said:
... I understand that. I simply reminded people, that they should remember that Christianity is contraditionary to Judaism, and they shold try to base their knowledge on OT rather than Nt, which contradicts itself so many times (Gospels, Acts and so on).
OK, we're cool on most of this except... if you want to talk about alleged contradictions in the NT, feel free to start another thread. 8-)
 
KaerbEmEvig said:
belovedwolfofgod said:
interesting diagram.

This is something he made up, though. Nothing to support it - all he did is misinterpret Bible. Christians are exactly same people as other humans, they don't differ in anything. Claiming they are not is blasphemy and goes stricly against the Tanakh.

yes as a jew you would think that but in the New testament it speaks of a new creation. one hwere sin no longer reigns over man. this is the christian state. our once dead spirit was made alive again when the Holy Spirit (whom you also reject) entered us. No we are not sinless beings like Adam was before the fall but we are as close to the restored man as one can get. this is what G_d meant in the OT when he said I would write the laws on man's hearts. What he meant in Joel 2:28-32 when he said he would pour out His Spirit on all flesh...
 
KaerbEmEvig said:
belovedwolfofgod said:
interesting diagram.

This is something he made up, though. Nothing to support it - all he did is misinterpret Bible. Christians are exactly same people as other humans, they don't differ in anything. Claiming they are not is blasphemy and goes stricly against the Tanakh.

yes as a jew you would think that but in the New testament it speaks of a new creation. one were sin no longer reigns over man. this is the christian state. our once dead spirit was made alive again when the Holy Spirit (whom you also reject) entered us. No we are not sinless beings like Adam was before the fall but we are as close to the restored man as one can get. this is what G_d meant in the OT when he said I would write the laws on man's hearts. What he meant in Joel 2:28-32 when he said he would pour out His Spirit on all flesh...

G_d told Adam that when he ate of the fruit, HE WOULD DIE. Adam lived another 930 years so what died in him? his Spirit died! How can a human with no spirit ever relate to or dwell with a G_d who is Spirit? his dead Spirit must be made alive again. the only way for a fallen Adam to be in heaven is to be made perfect (whole) again - a living Body, A living Soul & a living Spirit. How can G_d make man's dead Spirit live again? by putting His life giving Spirit back into man. If Adam's sin killed the Spirit in man then a New perfect man would have to come to deal with Adam's sin that perfect man was God himself taking on human flesh in the form of Jesus. When God died to remove Adam's sin then the way was clear for Him to send his Spirit to make man whole again. You see the reason for a New testament is that with the close of the Old Testament, Man was still lost in his sin & only had the promise of life. Jesus fulfilled those 300 prophecies & gave life back to man.
 
sorry guys, I don't know how that posted 3 times. must be bad day for the internet. I know mine is dead slow.

again, sorry
 
yes as a jew you would think that but in the New testament it speaks of a new creation. one were sin no longer reigns over man. this is the christian state. our once dead spirit was made alive again when the Holy Spirit (whom you also reject) entered us. No we are not sinless beings like Adam was before the fall but we are as close to the restored man as one can get. this is what G_d meant in the OT when he said I would write the laws on man's hearts. What he meant in Joel 2:28-32 when he said he would pour out His Spirit on all flesh...

I'm not a Jew, though I wish I was Jew or Hindu=] - I simply am not blind to all those misconceptions born in Christianity through centuries. I do not believe in Holy Spirit as some funky part of Godhead, first - that's polytheism, second - there's no mention of it in Tanakh, thus it must be something made by Christians, talk about not corrupting Jewish teachings...

What he meant in those verses was moksha - state when soul, be it intellectual animal's (dolphin's, human's), normal animal's or non-living object's, reconnect with Brahma/God/Oneness/etc. For more data visit wikipedia.org.

G_d told Adam that when he ate of the fruit, HE WOULD DIE. Adam lived another 930 years so what died in him? his Spirit died!

People hit by cars do not die immidiately, but usual being already in the hospital. People suffering from cancer do not die immidiately, but several (up to 30+) years after it all has started. In the end (after eatting the fruit) Adam has died, but not because he ate it, but because God cursed the whole humankind.

The bolded part - that's what normal people call textual manipulation. Nowhere in the text is said anything like what I have quoted - you have made this up and you made it on purpose, that shows how Christians really are.

Another thing is that Jews notice, that snake didn't lie about the Tree - Adam didn't die through eatting the fruit, but because of God's anger.

How can a human with no spirit ever relate to or dwell with a G_d who is Spirit? his dead Spirit must be made alive again. the only way for a fallen Adam to be in heaven is to be made perfect (whole) again - a living Body, A living Soul & a living Spirit.

Ditto. Also, Heaven is not a physical state (as Christians make it look into) - there's no need for a body. What Christians commited was mixing The World to Come concept with the concept of Heaven into one concept, making it all lack sense whatsoever.

How can G_d make man's dead Spirit live again? by putting His life giving Spirit back into man. If Adam's sin killed the Spirit in man then a New perfect man would have to come to deal with Adam's sin that perfect man was God himself taking on human flesh in the form of Jesus.

Ditto. God in flesh is blasphemy. Tanakh clearly states that God was not, is not and will be not coporeal, will never have body. Jesus worship is called idol worship and is forbidden by the Bible.

When God died to remove Adam's sin then the way was clear for Him to send his Spirit to make man whole again. You see the reason for a New testament is that with the close of the Old Testament, Man was still lost in his sin & only had the promise of life. Jesus fulfilled those 300 prophecies & gave life back to man.

Ditto.There was no close of the OT, at all - that's a concept made up by Christians to reason NT. Jesus did not fulfill any of the prophecies, at all.

http://www.askmoses.com/article.html?h=276&o=534

http://www.askmoses.com/article.html?h=227&o=350
 
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