Speaker's apology to LDS stirs up fuss

[serapha]

Hello xkonradx s.f.,



Orthodox Christians do not view the non-trinitarian believes of the CoJCoLDS as being Christian. One of the primary differences between the theologies of mainstream Christianity and the CoJCoLDS is the beliefs concerning the attributes of God and of Jesus Christ.


Some of the statements being thrown around on this thread are not official doctrines of the church, are they? And that there needs to be clarity between what is official doctrine and what is understood to be doctrines of the LDS


For clarity,

I would talk about this statement.

How many God's are there?

There is one God, did I say there was more then one?

and the exaltation of members to becoming gods.


The official doctrine of the CoJCoLDS doesn't teach that you will become a god, does it? The Gospel Principles teach it, and the prophets and leadership of the church believe it, but it actually isn't an official doctrine of the church, is it?

You see, xkonradx s.f., it is hard to understand why members of the CoJCoLDs believe certain beliefs. If it isn't official doctrine, why do the members believe it?

Now, it may be hard for you to understand why people do not accept the CoJCoLDS as Christian when members believe that they are following the teachings of Christ. You see, the Jesus of mormonism does not have the same attributes as the Christ of Calvary.

I would like to go over the attributes of the Jesus of mormonism and the attributes of the Christ of Calvary with you... would you be interested in a discussion on the attributes of Jesus Christ compared to the CoJCoLDS and mainstream Christianity?


~serapha~

 

[xkonradx s.f.]

Henry,

You must have something pretty personal against the church to know and care THIS MUCH about proving that it's a cult. This is all just humorous to me now. Give Joseph smith a break will ya? He translated the book of mormon when he was 14!!!!!!!!!!

Serapha,

I could care less what "Orthodox Christians" believe our church to be. The Irony of it its, we are the strictest of them all! You mention the "Mainstream"...the mainstream is everywhere. It's in music, tv, and now apparently even church. I hate the mainstream. I hate people that listen to the radio and the songs that are played for them. I hate MTV. I hate reality shows. I hate people that can't think for themselves. No, I'm not calling you out...but I'm just talking about your stereotype. This is one of the biggest reasons why I never went on a mission...because I have my beliefs and that's it, I could care less about anyone else having them. If somebody shows me interest, I'll pour out my heart. Otherwise...say what ever you want...it's in one ear and out the other.

Just know that in the last days, one church will be opposed by all. THEN you will see. :evil:

 

[serapha]

Serapha,

I could care less what "Orthodox Christians" believe our church to be. The Irony of it its, we are the strictest of them all!

Haven't met many Omish or Mennonites, have you?

You mention the "Mainstream"...the mainstream is everywhere. It's in music, tv, and now apparently even church. I hate the mainstream. I hate people that listen to the radio and the songs that are played for them. I hate MTV. I hate reality shows. I hate people that can't think for themselves.

whew.... that's a lot of hate. My list is a lot shorter, I hate blue-cheese dressing and raw fish.

No, I'm not calling you out...but I'm just talking about your stereotype.

Oh, I guarantee you that you haven't met a "mainstream" Christian like me before.... :bday:

This is one of the biggest reasons why I never went on a mission...because I have my beliefs and that's it, I could care less about anyone else having them.

It is kinda tough to evangelize when you are set in your ways, huh?

If somebody shows me interest, I'll pour out my heart. Otherwise...say what ever you want...it's in one ear and out the other.

Oh, I don't know, I offered you an opportunity to share what your church believes in relation to what orthodox Christianity believes, and you didn't seem interested in pouring out your heart....

Just know that in the last days, one church will be opposed by all. THEN you will see.

<grins>


Ya know, in the last days, my church is going to "rise", so yes, maybe I could agree that the CoJCoLDS will be opposed by all, the rest of us will already be gone.


You want to talk or not?


~serapha~

 

[Free]

GOD'S ARMY,

What if the orthodox beliefs of Christianity had become apostate from God?

Then I would think that Jesus lied when he said that he would be with us until the end of the age and that the Holy Spirit would guide us into all truth.

If the fathers of the reformation had believed the Catholic church was orthodox they would not have left.

But this was not the orginial intention of Luther and the early reformers. Look at the name "reformation;" they wanted to reform certain aspects of the Church regarding the sacraments. They weren't out to start new churches and deny the Catholic Church, this came later with the Radical Reformation. Regardless, yoru point doesn't address the Eastern Orthodox, the Coptics, etc.

How do you then know the religions they then founded were based on the true doctrines of God?

But you have missed the whole point - even among Catholics, Protestants, Evangelicals, Orthodox, etc., there are many foundational doctrines common to all, doctrines which distinguish Christianity from all other religions.

Christian, but not another Christian denomination. All other Christian churches are sects of an apostate church. The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is the restored church that Christ set up during His ministry.

That is the answer I expected. I appreciate your openness instead of some who play games. So why is the Mormon church trying so hard to be accepted among mainstream Christianity if all of "Christendom" is apostate?


xkonradx s.f.,

Yes it did. Without a doubt. They were getting KILLED OFF!!! Not to mention they had to journey across the united states with just the clothes on their backs and oxen-carts.

Ah, I had missed your point. So why didn't the truth of their message bring enough people in to sustain their numbers? The early church was heavily persecuted but never resorted to polygamy. I would also ask if the polygamy started before or after the Mormons were being killed. Was it not one of the reasons for their being chased out of the east in the first place?

There is one God, did I say there was more then one?

No, you didn't, but now I need to ask if that is of this earth or in all of the universe. Mormon doctrine teaches that there are many gods of many worlds who procreate so that their "spirit babies" can then populate the earth, doesn't it? If I have this wrong, please correct me.

Yet the God of the Bible himself says many times that he knows of no other Gods, not even one.

I don't refer to it as Yahweh, but i'm assuming Moses.

How can the God of the OT, Yahweh, be Moses if he talked to Moses?

Yes it is sufficient.

This seems to disagree with historical Mormon doctrine that Christ's death was not sufficient for atonement.

The holy spirit, given to all members who recieve a Confirmation (after baptism)

But is the Holy Spirit God? Is the Holy Spirit an "it" or a "he," a "person"?

Because the priesthood needed to be restored before the Second Coming of Christ. He will not come until the Gospel is in EVERY country.

But what does the priesthood have to do with the Second Coming and the the gosel being in every country? The gospel was very widespread prior to the "restoration of the priesthood." Why would the priesthood needed to be restored since it had to do with Jewish worship in the Temple and the sacrificial system? Mormons certainly haven't instituted the sacrificial system and if they haven't, the priesthood is pointless.

Hebrews talks about Jesus being the last priest because he ended the sacrificial system with the ultimate sacrifice. The only reason I can see for the need of a priesthood would be the insufficiency of the blood of Christ to cover our sins.

I know because I read it and believe it. If you read the Book of Mormon in it's entirety, You'd probably know also. Try praying about it.

What about the prophecies that have come true in the Bible, or its historicity? The Book of Mormon has no prophecies, at least none that have come true, and its historicity has been verified by absolutely nothing.

I have a prof who has gone to 97% of the places in the book of Acts. I guarantee you that no one could go to 5% of the places in the whole of the Book of Mormon.

God's prophets must hold the priesthood of Melchisedech. There is only one true prophet on the earth today.

Even if that was true, that is not what determines a true prophet from a false one and the Mormon church has a verified history of false prophets. What they have stated simply has not come to pass.

I'm also curious if all the OT prophets were of the priesthood of Melchizadech.

There is in the Book of Mormon, but why should I site it if you don't hold the book valid as it is?

But that is the whole point, isn't it? The Book of Mormon directly contradicts the Bible in many instances which is another huge reason why it cannot also be the Word of God. The Bible clearly says that we will be like the angels, that we won't be married.

This also shows that you believe there is more than one God since you are probably aspiring to be a God one day.

Before Christ, one family sailed from Jerusalem to the American Continent, bringing the Priesthood to the Americas. Thus brings to pass the story of the Book of Mormon.

Except that there is zero to verify anything in the Book of Mormon, including the idea that a family sailed from Jerusalem to the American continent.

As I have shown, although Mormonism claims to be Christian, there is no reason to believe that it is.

To finish, allow me to quote a previous post of yours:

# God is our Heavenly Father. He loves us and wants us to return to Him.
# Jesus Christ is the Son of God. He is our Savior. He redeems us from death by providing the Resurrection. He saves us from sin as we repent.
# Through the Atonement of Jesus Christ, we can return to live with God if we keep His commandments.
# The Holy Ghost helps us to recognize truth.
# The first principles and ordinances of the gospel are faith in Jesus Christ, repentance, baptism, and receiving the gift of the Holy Ghost.
# The Church of Jesus Christ has been restored to the earth.
# The priesthood authority of God exists in His Church today, just as it did in the original Church.
# The Bible and the Book of Mormon are the word of God.
# God reveals His will to prophets today, just as He did anciently.
# Our life has a sacred purpose.
# Families can be together forever.
# Through serving others, we can experience joy and draw closer to God.

Gordon B. Hinckley, President of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, said:

"We are Christians in a very real sense and that is coming to be more and more widely recognized. Once upon a time people everywhere said we are not Christians. They have come to recognize that we are, and that we have a very vital and dynamic religion based on the teachings of Jesus Christ."

"We, of course, accept Jesus Christ as our Leader, our King, our Savior. The dominant figure in the history of the world, the only perfect Man who ever walked the earth, the living Son of the living God. He is our Savior and our Redeemer through whose atoning sacrifice has come the opportunity of eternal life."

"Members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints pray and worship in the name of Jesus Christ. He is the center of our faith and the head of our Church. The Book of Mormon is Another Testament of Jesus Christ and witnesses of His divinity, His life, and His Atonement."

M. Russell Ballard, a member of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles, said:

"There are many who say that Latter-day Saints believe in a 'different Jesus' than do other Christians and that we are therefore not 'Christian.' . . . We believe in the Jesus of the New Testament, and we believe what the New Testament teaches about Him. We do believe things about Jesus that other Christians do not believe, but that is because we know, through revelation, things about Jesus that others do not know. . . .

"What we want most of all is for Christian and non-Christian alike to understand that we love the Lord Jesus Christ. We revere His name. We count it a great honor and privilege to take upon ourselves the name of Christ as Christians and as members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints."

Gordon B. Hinckley, President of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, said:

"We are not an institution which has broken away from the Roman Catholic or any other church. We are not part of a reformation. We declare that this is a Restoration. The teachings and organization of the Church are as they were anciently."

God is perfect, all-wise, and all-powerfulâ€â€the ruler of the universe. He is also merciful, kind, and just. He is our Father in Heaven. We are created in His image (Genesis 1:27). He has a body that looks like ours, but God’s body is immortal, perfected, and has a glory that words can't describe. Because we are His children, He knows and loves each of us individually. He has a plan to help His children find joy in this life and return to live with Him when this life is over.

http://www.mormon.org/question/faq/cate ... 16,00.html

You and GOD'S ARMY claim that Mormonism is Christian and that all other churches are apostate, which is what Joseph Smith was supposedly told in his encounter with God. Yet, the above makes it clear that the Mormon church is trying to get accepted by everyone as being the same as historical Christianity. Why is that?

 

[xkonradx s.f.]

If somebody shows me interest, I'll pour out my heart. Otherwise...say what ever you want...it's in one ear and out the other.

Oh, I don't know, I offered you an opportunity to share what your church believes in relation to what orthodox Christianity believes, and you didn't seem interested in pouring out your heart....


~serapha~

Pour out my heart on a message board??? HAHAHAHA. No when it comes to serious issues I'd rather not do them hiding behind a computer. PM me your number if you really want to talk. :-D

 

[Henry]

You must have something pretty personal against the church to know and care THIS MUCH about proving that it's a cult.

Are you kidding me, the mormons teach that all other churches are apostate and they are the ONLY actual church of Christ. So, I geuss by your logic you must have something against Christians to say that hmmmmm.

Sorry, but the Lord and the apostles vervently warned us against false teachers and flase prophets, so why then would I have a care not attitude against false teaching?

That, is what mormonism is false teachings. Jesus DID NOT speak to Joeseph Smith, he was a fasle teacher and false prophet.

This is all just humorous to me now. Give Joseph smith a break will ya? He translated the book of mormon when he was 14!!!!!!!!!!

14 ? Well that is one story, there are as many as six tails as to how this all actually happened. But the thing is that there were not tablets, he did not translate a thing. And I geuss you must know the stories yourself, the tail is that we was SHOWN the words and simply copied them down. He transposed NOT translated as the story goes.

He also said the BOM was the most acurate and complete book on the earth, and yet there hunderds of changes made through out the years. That my friend is not the case with the Bible, and it has been around for thoudsands of years.

If you think that false teaching is funny, well I am sorry that you feel that way. For me truth and my eternity is far too important to just laugh off false teachings.

Joe was a false prophet and should have been stoned, but hey they shot him so I geuss it was close enough.

 

[evanman]

Joseph Smith translated nothing--he was no linguist!

At 14 he was hardly educated!

 

[xkonradx s.f.]

Comment removed by Moderator.

Such personal attacks will not be tolerated.

 

[Henry]

The least you can do is have respect.

Respect for what? For the people perhaps, but not for the LDS doctrine and not for any false prophet.

Of course we teach that our church is the true church.

That is the problem, the LDS Church is not the true Church as my arguments in the last few posting have shown. Jesus warned of false prophets and this joeseh smith was one with out doubt, he never spoke to Jesus and God reveled nothing to him at all.

This has been proven, but sadly LSD are so entrenched in the doctrines they see not the truth before them

What's the point of believing in something if you're not sure of it?

Believing something does not make it true, athiest are sure there is no God at all. And the Hindus are sure there are millions of gods. While the buhdist are sure that god is not really a person, but the energy of the universe.

These things are all on contrediction to each other.

Just the same as your LDS doctrine that Jesus is the brother of satan, while the Christian doctrine is that Jesus is the creator of satan and all esle as well.

Both can not be true at the same time. He is or he is not the creator of all things.

So, believing something does not make it true. Feelings in the bossome and sincerety do not a truth make.

And to add to that, given that we know the Bible is Gods word, there are many LDS doctrines which are totally in contradiction to the Bible.

And yet while LDS say that is becuase the Bible has been changed they have NO proof, while at the same time we have documentations (some I have shown here) that the BOM has gone through many changes and is still being changed and corrected.

And I spared you by the way of the MANY false prophecies of joe.

I beg your pardon, but you can go to hell.

You have no need to beg, nor need of my pardon. I am not your judge, you need to seek God in that matter.

And why would you wish me to a place that by your LDS teaching does not exist? LDS teach a place called spirit prison, which one can eventually get out of. But no hell in the LDS Church, it is merely a metaphore.

I am sure without a doubt that the LDS Church is wrong, not the Church of Christ at all, and that Joeseph Smith was false prophet that deserved to be stoned for the lies he told in the name of God.

Becuase, my friend the evidence leads that way.

 

[Free]

No response to my post?