Special: For those of you expecting to go to heaven

[John Zain]

Holiness is required

“… but as He who called you is holy, you also be holy in all your conduct,
because it is written, “Be holy, for I am holy.†(1 Peter 1:15-16, NKJV)

“… we should be holy and without blame before Him in love …†(Ephesians 1:4, NKJV)

“… to present you holy, and blameless, and above reproach in His sight,
if indeed you continue in the faith, grounded and steadfast,
and are not moved away from the hope of the gospel …†(Colossians 1:22-23, NKJV)

More verses: 2 Timothy 1:9, 2 Peter 3:11, Romans 12:1, 1 Peter 2:5-9, Rev. 20:6, 21:8

Perfection is required

“Therefore you shall be perfect, just as your Father in heaven is perfect.†(Matthew 5:48, NKJV)

“But let patience have its perfect work, that you may be perfect and complete …†(James 1:4, NKJV)

“… that He might present her to Himself a glorious church, not having spot or wrinkle
or any such thing, but that she should be holy and without blemish.†(Ephesians 5:27, NKJV)

More verses: John 17:22-23, Galatians 3:3-4, Ephesians 4:13, Hebrews 10:1

This is only your reasonable service

“I appeal to you therefore, brethren, and beg of you in view of [all] the mercies of God,
to make a decisive dedication of your bodies [presenting all your members and faculties]
as a living sacrifice, holy (devoted, consecrated) and well pleasing to God,
which is your reasonable (rational, intelligent) service and spiritual worship.†Romans 12:1 (Amp)

Describing Jesus’ church

“… a glorious church, not having spot or wrinkle or any such thing … holy and without blemish.â€
(Ephesians 5:27, NKJV)

How to be part of it

If you have been born-again …
you have the Holy Spirit inside of you to help you become an overcomer.
The Holy Spirit is trying to purify you through His sanctification process.

You have the free will to choose
-- to be obedient to the Scriptures
-- to co-operate with the Holy Spirit
-- to be sanctified unto holiness and perfection

 

[2tired2floss]

“Therefore you shall be perfect, just as your Father in heaven is perfect.” (Matthew 5:48, NKJV)

Serious question from a Christian tyro: how can we be perfect?

 

[John 8:32]

“Therefore you shall be perfect, just as your Father in heaven is perfect.” (Matthew 5:48, NKJV)

Serious question from a Christian tyro: how can we be perfect?

Serious answer, it does not really say that...

Mat 5:48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

perfect:

G5046
τέλειος
teleios
tel'-i-os
From G5056; complete (in various applications of labor, growth, mental and moral character, etc.); neuter (as noun, with G3588) completeness: - of full age, man, perfect.

from Thayer's Lexicon...

G5046
τέλειος
teleios
Thayer Definition:
1) brought to its end, finished
2) wanting nothing necessary to completeness
3) perfect
4) that which is perfect
4a) consummate human integrity and virtue
4b) of men
4b1) full grown, adult, of full age, mature
Part of Speech: adjective
A Related Word by Thayer’s/Strong’s Number: from G5056
Citing in TDNT: 8:67, 1161

We cannot be perfect, we are exhorted here to become mature...

2Pe 3:18 But grow in grace, and in the knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. To him be glory both now and for ever. Amen.

We are to grow in grace and knowledge and obedience...

2Co 10:5 Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ;
2Co 10:6 And having in a readiness to revenge all disobedience, when your obedience is fulfilled.

 

[josefnospam]

No one gets to heaven except those who have the spirit of God. When he comes back he will see ONLY the rightouness of his son JESUS and if Christ did not elect you to this great Salvation you are striving with the creator hoping to please him. You cannot. Only JESUS CHRIST can please him. He(JESUS) has finished a perfect work. What part can you add? OR improve on, or change.
You either trust in him and his work or you still believe you can do something good and You are under the law. The law shows us we are all sinners. The spirit of christ removes you from the curse of the Law and puts you under his GRACE. All you must do is believe in him. Those who say they do, but deny him by there works are under the law and will not get to heaven. Thank God for his amazing GRACE. His works are to be praised. NEVER our own. Plsm 111 best describes HIS mighty and wonderfull works, which we are, (his works), if he chose you for such an honor. Grow in the Grace and knowldge of his wonderfull works, not yours.
A last thought. We are not here to become better, or mature. How can you get any better than what he has already finished and given to his people.
NO ,rather we are lost sinners without a saviour, dead in our sins. Then if it is his will we are given his spirit and a new life and how can anyone improve that. His grace is amazing

 

[iLOVE]

Many Christians believe that holy living is impossible. It is indeed impossible in our own strength. But with God’s grace we can live a holy life. He gives us the strength and the ability to live a life that is pleasing and acceptable to Him. However, we cannot expect His grace to just fall upon us without any effort on our part. We have to cooperate with grace. Our part is to continue to do all we know to do according to His Word, while completely trusting and relying on Him.

 

[Deborah13]

Serious answer, it does not really say that...

Of coarse it does. That is exactly what is says.

Matt 5:48

"be ye perfect" (or mature) - teleioi - adjective, plural, masculine, nominative case

"Father is perfect" (or mature) - teleios - adjective, singular, masculine, nominative case


Yep, we are commanded to be perfect (or mature) just EXACTLY as the Father is perfect (or mature).

 

[Elijah674]

Serious answer, it does not really say that...

Of coarse it does. That is exactly what is says.

Matt 5:48

"be ye perfect" (or mature) - teleioi - adjective, plural, masculine, nominative case

"Father is perfect" (or mature) - teleios - adjective, singular, masculine, nominative case


Yep, we are commanded to be perfect (or mature) just EXACTLY as the Father is perfect (or mature).

Not that perfect!;)
What do you do with 1 John 5:16-17.

--Elijah

 

[Grappler]

Holiness is required

“… but as He who called you is holy, you also be holy in all your conduct,
because it is written, “Be holy, for I am holy.” (1 Peter 1:15-16, NKJV)

“… we should be holy and without blame before Him in love …” (Ephesians 1:4, NKJV)

“… to present you holy, and blameless, and above reproach in His sight,
if indeed you continue in the faith, grounded and steadfast,
and are not moved away from the hope of the gospel …” (Colossians 1:22-23, NKJV)

More verses: 2 Timothy 1:9, 2 Peter 3:11, Romans 12:1, 1 Peter 2:5-9, Rev. 20:6, 21:8

Perfection is required

“Therefore you shall be perfect, just as your Father in heaven is perfect.” (Matthew 5:48, NKJV)

“But let patience have its perfect work, that you may be perfect and complete …” (James 1:4, NKJV)

“… that He might present her to Himself a glorious church, not having spot or wrinkle
or any such thing, but that she should be holy and without blemish.” (Ephesians 5:27, NKJV)

More verses: John 17:22-23, Galatians 3:3-4, Ephesians 4:13, Hebrews 10:1

This is only your reasonable service

“I appeal to you therefore, brethren, and beg of you in view of [all] the mercies of God,
to make a decisive dedication of your bodies [presenting all your members and faculties]
as a living sacrifice, holy (devoted, consecrated) and well pleasing to God,
which is your reasonable (rational, intelligent) service and spiritual worship.” Romans 12:1 (Amp)

Describing Jesus’ church

“… a glorious church, not having spot or wrinkle or any such thing … holy and without blemish.”
(Ephesians 5:27, NKJV)

How to be part of it

If you have been born-again …
you have the Holy Spirit inside of you to help you become an overcomer.
The Holy Spirit is trying to purify you through His sanctification process.

You have the free will to choose
-- to be obedient to the Scriptures
-- to co-operate with the Holy Spirit
-- to be sanctified unto holiness and perfection

Your premise is wrong from the very beginning...we don't go to heaven....man was made for the Earth....Jesus said the meek shall inherit the Earth.

 

[Guest]

:biglol

 

[Deborah13]

Serious answer, it does not really say that...

Of coarse it does. That is exactly what is says.

Matt 5:48

"be ye perfect" (or mature) - teleioi - adjective, plural, masculine, nominative case

"Father is perfect" (or mature) - teleios - adjective, singular, masculine, nominative case


Yep, we are commanded to be perfect (or mature) just EXACTLY as the Father is perfect (or mature).

Not that perfect!;)
What do you do with 1 John 5:16-17.

--Elijah

You first, how do you reconcile Matt 5:48?
It is a command it seems.

Then I'll let you help me with your's because I really not sure I understand that one.

 

[Douvie]

Isn't there an analogy in this somewhere? Christ made reference to something about a student being like his teacher but can't be the teacher.
Perfection is unattainable to fallen man - even after he is born again. To make a point even though the angel/cherubims are holy yet in Isa 6 we have the following:

Isa 6:2 Above it stood the seraphims: each one had six wings with twain he covered his face, and with twain he covered his feet, and with twain he did fly.
​

Isa 6:3 And one cried unto another, and said, Holy, holy, holy, is the LORD of hosts: the whole earth is full of his glory.
​

Yes the Angels covered their eyes not being able to look on the Holiness of God. The holiness we are clothed with is Christ's holiness in regards that He was able to keep the Law. We are not - even though we are saved - we still sin because the "body of sin" still plagues us.

 

[Douvie]

Your premise is wrong from the very beginning...we don't go to heaven....man was made for the Earth....Jesus said the meek shall inherit the Earth.

Are you sure of that?

Rev 21:1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.
​

Rev 21:2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
​

Rev 21:3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.

​

That is not how I understand these verses. But I don't want to hijack this thread.

 

[Douvie]

I agree. Impossible! Hence my point to "Holiness".

As far as I was aware of things one has to be a sinner to be saved!

 

[smaller]

And some people's sifters to STOP PEOPLE from getting into heaven grow more extensive and detailed by the minute, until it reaches the point that only they are going to get in.

Pretty sad summary of events below. There is no need to run such extensive filters when there are other facts that are more than sufficient, such as

'those who call upon the Lord shall be saved.'

Beyond that any such 'add ons' are being formed into a modern day Pharisee constructs.

s

Holiness is required

“… but as He who called you is holy, you also be holy in all your conduct,
because it is written, “Be holy, for I am holy.” (1 Peter 1:15-16, NKJV)

“… we should be holy and without blame before Him in love …” (Ephesians 1:4, NKJV)

“… to present you holy, and blameless, and above reproach in His sight,
if indeed you continue in the faith, grounded and steadfast,
and are not moved away from the hope of the gospel …” (Colossians 1:22-23, NKJV)

More verses: 2 Timothy 1:9, 2 Peter 3:11, Romans 12:1, 1 Peter 2:5-9, Rev. 20:6, 21:8

Perfection is required

“Therefore you shall be perfect, just as your Father in heaven is perfect.” (Matthew 5:48, NKJV)

“But let patience have its perfect work, that you may be perfect and complete …” (James 1:4, NKJV)

“… that He might present her to Himself a glorious church, not having spot or wrinkle
or any such thing, but that she should be holy and without blemish.” (Ephesians 5:27, NKJV)

More verses: John 17:22-23, Galatians 3:3-4, Ephesians 4:13, Hebrews 10:1

This is only your reasonable service

“I appeal to you therefore, brethren, and beg of you in view of [all] the mercies of God,
to make a decisive dedication of your bodies [presenting all your members and faculties]
as a living sacrifice, holy (devoted, consecrated) and well pleasing to God,
which is your reasonable (rational, intelligent) service and spiritual worship.” Romans 12:1 (Amp)

Describing Jesus’ church

“… a glorious church, not having spot or wrinkle or any such thing … holy and without blemish.”
(Ephesians 5:27, NKJV)

How to be part of it

If you have been born-again …
you have the Holy Spirit inside of you to help you become an overcomer.
The Holy Spirit is trying to purify you through His sanctification process.

You have the free will to choose
-- to be obedient to the Scriptures
-- to co-operate with the Holy Spirit
-- to be sanctified unto holiness and perfection

 

[Grappler]

Your premise is wrong from the very beginning...we don't go to heaven....man was made for the Earth....Jesus said the meek shall inherit the Earth.

Are you sure of that?

Rev 21:1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.
​

Rev 21:2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
​

Rev 21:3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.

​

That is not how I understand these verses. But I don't want to hijack this thread.

Pretty sure Jesus said the meek shall inherit the earth.

 

[smaller]

“Therefore you shall be perfect, just as your Father in heaven is perfect.†(Matthew 5:48, NKJV)

Serious question from a Christian tyro: how can we be perfect?

Uh, obviously thee 'only Way' that can come about is to have God in Christ abiding in us?

Ya think?

Yeah. No one else is going to 'turn themselves into God Perfect' all on their own, as if any of us would even have a clue what that is or consists of.

We currently have 'a share' in The Divine just to step us into the greatness and eternalness of the matters of Perfection.

and guess what? Perfection never ends. I do not expect any kind of 'you are now Perfect' to ever come about for me because Perfection never ends. We don't get to draw pencil marks around it and say 'this is what it is.' Uh, no, there are no such marks available.

s

 

[Douvie]

Pretty sure Jesus said the meek shall inherit the earth.

Yeah He did say that but that implies the "here and now". The folowing is said in Proverbs:

Pro 11:7 When a wicked man dieth, his expectation shall perish: and the hope of unjust men perisheth.


​

One doesn't have to go far back in history to see evidence of this. So same, in the reverse, could implied to the meek, or the righteous shall inherit the earth. I'm just thinking it could imply the great riches - ie., inherit the earth. I heard some preacher mention that all the riches that the wicked gather they are actually gathering these for the children of God. Whether this is something tangible I'm not sure.

 

[Grappler]

Pretty sure Jesus said the meek shall inherit the earth.

Yeah He did say that but that implies the "here and now". The folowing is said in Proverbs:

Pro 11:7 When a wicked man dieth, his expectation shall perish: and the hope of unjust men perisheth.


​

One doesn't have to go far back in history to see evidence of this. So same, in the reverse, could implied to the meek, or the righteous shall inherit the earth. I'm just thinking it could imply the great riches - ie., inherit the earth. I heard some preacher mention that all the riches that the wicked gather they are actually gathering these for the children of God. Whether this is something tangible I'm not sure.

I don't know if you keep up the current geo-political system of the earth but it is suffice to say that the "meek" are not inheriting the earth in the "here and now".lol The preacher you heard sounds very confused...sounds like one of those prosperity gospel televangelists. Jesus said "inherit". I am going to inherit my dad's estate. This doesn't imply the here and now but a future time. Do you understand that??

 

[Douvie]

Could Jesus be implying the new earth? As in the future state as mentioned Re 21.

 

[John 8:32]

Pretty sure Jesus said the meek shall inherit the earth.

Yeah He did say that but that implies the "here and now". The folowing is said in Proverbs:

Pro 11:7 When a wicked man dieth, his expectation shall perish: and the hope of unjust men perisheth.


​

One doesn't have to go far back in history to see evidence of this. So same, in the reverse, could implied to the meek, or the righteous shall inherit the earth. I'm just thinking it could imply the great riches - ie., inherit the earth. I heard some preacher mention that all the riches that the wicked gather they are actually gathering these for the children of God. Whether this is something tangible I'm not sure.

What does this imply?

Joh 13:33 Little children, yet a little while I am with you. Ye shall seek me: and as I said unto the Jews, Whither I go, ye cannot come; so now I say to you.