Spirits In Prison

[sdktlk]

After the death of the body of Jesus on the cross then Jesus in Spirit form went to a PRISON where the spirits of those who had drowned in the flood were kept and preached to them the gospel. The place where these departed souls were kept(your soul goes with your spirit when you die) was not paradise,hell, or the lake of fire, it was the exact word prison(a holding place). In simple language, some of the people who drowned in the flood of Noah were given a chance to accept Christ as Savior.
Even though the world was evil in the time of Noah there were still some people trying to serve God, however only Noah attained a position of righteousness where he could be saved. My thoughts are that these were the people who were trying to trust God but could not measure up in their time but could be saved by the sacrifice of Christ.

Sam, I said, [FONT=Georgia, serif]Before the crucifixion and resurrection both the lost and the justified by faith were held in a place of "confinement." The lost, as we can see, were and are held in hades, the place of departed souls, and Father Abraham and Lazarus are seen in a place which we hear the Lord call "paradise."[/FONT]

Before our Lord shed His blood there wasn't anyone, lost or justified, that could go into the presence of God. All were in a prison, in the sense that they could not "go to heaven," even though they had been justified by faith. Without the shedding of blood there is no remission of sin. And without remission of sin it was impossible to be in the presence of God.

Therefore, the lost were held in prison in hades and the justified were held in paradise. Paradise is no longer used to hold the righteous, for we know that now when we die we immediately are "present with the Lord."

 

[TRUTH over TRADITION]

Sam, I said, [FONT=Georgia, serif]Before the crucifixion and resurrection both the lost and the justified by faith were held in a place of "confinement." The lost, as we can see, were and are held in hades, the place of departed souls, and Father Abraham and Lazarus are seen in a place which we hear the Lord call "paradise."[/FONT]

Before our Lord shed His blood there wasn't anyone, lost or justified, that could go into the presence of God. All were in a prison, in the sense that they could not "go to heaven," even though they had been justified by faith. Without the shedding of blood there is no remission of sin. And without remission of sin it was impossible to be in the presence of God.

Therefore, the lost were held in prison in hades and the justified were held in paradise. Paradise is no longer used to hold the righteous, for we know that now when we die we immediately are "present with the Lord."

This is the EXACT view I formerly held when I was a devout Cambellite ! I had heard and harped on Luke 16's Rich Man & Lazarus story as THE definitive answer of the question of what happens immediately after death because it came directly from the mouth of Jesus himself. In my mind the saved went to the "Paradise" side of the hadean realm while the lost went to the other side of the "great gulf" into torments where they await judgment. I even belief that when Jesus died that his soul went to the Paradise side initially then crossed the gulf to minister to those in torment.
My view drastically changed as I got more familiar with the Hebrew scriptures and the overall picture the Bible's books in an entirety paint with regards to death and the nature of man. I then was able to look at the parable in Luke 16 with less biased eyes that didn't view it with my old preconceptions. This allowed me to see it in the full context that Jesus delivered it in and I then realized that it really had nothing to do with death and the afterlife. Instead it was about the Jews, specifically those who "sat in Moses' seat" as leaders embodied in the Rich Man who would lose their place of favor only to see others they consider lessor men, even Goyim inheriting the promises make to Abraham.
What we must realize is that to the Jew of Jesus' day, the term Hades was equal to the Hebrew concept of Sheol and what Sheol was was NOT a place of departed souls, but rather the grave, the heart of the earth, the very place of the dead. To the Jew, the 'afterlife' did not begin at death, instead it began at the resurrection. Death to the Jew was a cessation of life where they went to sleep with their fathers in the heart of the earth.

 

[Elijah674]

The idea that the spirits in prison were angels because they were called spirits is a idea without much biblical evidence. We need to keep in mind that when Jesus was preaching to them that He was a spirit also(his body was dead) when we die our spirit leaves our body and the soul goes with it. My point,a spirit did not drown in the flood(can a spirit drown in water?)a human died in the flood and the human spirit went to a holding place, and when Jesus died then His spirit went to their spirits and preached the gospel. Those people were not suffering in Hades and it appears that they qualified for salvation by faith in Christ but they did not qualify to be saved from the flood.

Christ was NEVER a Spirit. He had an IMAGE. Even in the OT He had the Holy Spirt/God (God Is a Spirit) presenting Christ/God/Himself only, & in a limited location because Adam lost his control of earth to satan. He was limited as the Second Adam because the First Adam had lost his earthly domain because of sin, to satan.

And it was not until Christ went back to heaven that the Holy Spirit was sent back PRESENTING CHRIST EVERWHERE PRESENT. He THEN AGAIN TESTIFIED OF CHRIST.

And in the OT the preflood ones had the Holy Spirit TESTIFYING ONLY OF CHRIST as agreed on by the Godhead after Adam's sin. Salvation IS CHRIST OF ETERNITY taught by the Holy Spirit!! Gen. 6:3

And DEATH?? These are ALL 'sleeping' until Christ comes back, see Job's remarks! Job 14:12-15, Job. 20:4-9, Psalms 115:17-18, Eccl.9:46.

 

[TRUTH over TRADITION]

The idea that the spirits in prison were angels because they were called spirits is a idea without much biblical evidence. We need to keep in mind that when Jesus was preaching to them that He was a spirit also(his body was dead) when we die our spirit leaves our body and the soul goes with it. My point,a spirit did not drown in the flood(can a spirit drown in water?)a human died in the flood and the human spirit went to a holding place, and when Jesus died then His spirit went to their spirits and preached the gospel. Those people were not suffering in Hades and it appears that they qualified for salvation by faith in Christ but they did not qualify to be saved from the flood.

The idea that at death our soul departs from the body as popular as it is, is an idea that has no scriptural backing. The soul (ruach) is defined by scripture as the whole person. When God gives His spirit (the breath of life) to a creature of flesh, that creature then BECOMES a living soul. The spirit, which is the animating force that gives life is God's and when a man dies it returns to God who gave it. Again, this spirit, (which means unseen force or breath) is NOT the man it is the life force that God gives to the man to quicken him.
Remember Jesus' words as he hung dying on Calvary? He said: "Father, into Your hands a commend my spirit." This tells us that the spirit that Jesus had went to the Father when Jesus died. If this spirit was the breath of life or animating force given by God we have no problem, BUT if the spirit was Jesus we have a conundrum for Jesus said to Mary after his resurrection the following in John 20:17: “Do not cling to me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father; but go to my brothers and say to them, ‘I am ascending to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God.â€'
Now, consider WHEN Jesus became a life giving spirit. In 1 Corinthians 15 it talks about the 1st Adam, Jesus as the 2nd Adam, and about the resurrection that comes because of Jesus who as the firstborn from the dead has become a life giving spirit.
Having said all this, if we are honest we are left with but 2 choices. Either Jesus ministered to the "spirits in prison" prior to his death, or he did so after his resurrection. While he was in the heart of the earth, he was truly dead and remember there’s no doing, thinking, wisdom, or knowledge, in the grave, so he could not have done any ministering at that time.

As readers who wish to understand, we must determine which choice fits best with scripture and makes the most sense as it relates to WHO the "spirits in prison" Peter spoke of were. Peter identifies the WHEN of these 'spirits' but it is left to us to determine the WHO. Does it make more sense and fit into the biblical narrative better if we conclude that these 'spirits' were the men and women killed in the flood or does it make more since to believe these spirits to be the sons of God spoken of in Genesis 6 who MAY in fact have been spirit beings?

 

[Hitch]

2. Spiritual death is not here in question. As far as unbelievers are concerned, they continue spiritually dead from their birth through all eternity. As far as the believer is concerned, he is spiritually alive from the moment of his regeneration (John vi. 54). But death, in its common sense, is precisely defined as the suspension of the personal union of soul and body. It continues precisely as long as this union is suspended. It ends the instant this union is re-established by the resurrection. The human soul is essentially constituted for this personal union with a material body. This union conditions all its sensibilities and all its activities. When absent from the body the personality is incomplete; the ghost-life, however happy, must be intermediate and provisional. It is only in the reconstructed personality consequent upon the resurrection of the body, and its glorification in the likeness of Christ, that the person is ready for final judgment or for the consummation of salvation.

"The State of Man After Death and the Resurreciton" - A.A. Hodge

 

[TRUTH over TRADITION]

2. Spiritual death is not here in question. As far as unbelievers are concerned, they continue spiritually dead from their birth through all eternity. As far as the believer is concerned, he is spiritually alive from the moment of his regeneration (John vi. 54). But death, in its common sense, is precisely defined as the suspension of the personal union of soul and body. It continues precisely as long as this union is suspended. It ends the instant this union is re-established by the resurrection. The human soul is essentially constituted for this personal union with a material body. This union conditions all its sensibilities and all its activities. When absent from the body the personality is incomplete; the ghost-life, however happy, must be intermediate and provisional. It is only in the reconstructed personality consequent upon the resurrection of the body, and its glorification in the likeness of Christ, that the person is ready for final judgment or for the consummation of salvation.

"The State of Man After Death and the Resurreciton" - A.A. Hodge

The concept of TOTAL DEPRAVITY espoused by the site the quote comes from is in opposition to what the narrative of scripture unvails. Though scripture tells us we are born into a world afflicted with sin, it does NOT tell us that we are born guilty of any sin. So, to say that at birth a person is spiritualy dead is not in line with the message of God.
It also defines death 'as the suspension of the personal union of soul and body.' I assume that such a definition is loosely based on James 2:26 which many translations have as: "just as the body without the spirit is dead, so is faith without work." This is a correct rendering, BUT one MUST understand that the spirit mentioned here is NOT the soul. This spirit is the breath of life given to all creatures by God that animates or quickens them. When this breath (which is a word that could properly replace spirit in this text) is removed from the body (returning to God who gave it), the soul, which is the whole person, dies.

So, just as a body that isn’t breathing (without the spirit) is dead, faith without action (works) is dead.

So definition it uses for death is incorrect from a scriptural standpoint. Death in scripture is defined as a cessation of life, NOT a separation of body and soul.

 

[Alabaster]

Christ was NEVER a Spirit. He had an IMAGE. Even in the OT He had the Holy Spirt/God (God Is a Spirit) presenting Christ/God/Himself only, & in a limited location because Adam lost his control of earth to satan. He was limited as the Second Adam because the First Adam had lost his earthly domain because of sin, to satan.

Jesus died and His spirit went to Hades. It is well noted you don't believe the Bible.

Matthew 27:50 NLT
Then Jesus shouted out again, and he released his spirit.

And it was not until Christ went back to heaven that the Holy Spirit was sent back PRESENTING CHRIST EVERWHERE PRESENT. He THEN AGAIN TESTIFIED OF CHRIST.

Holy Spirit is the THIRD PERSON OF THE GODHEAD. Jesus is the SECOND.

And DEATH?? These are ALL 'sleeping' until Christ comes back, see Job's remarks! Job 14:12-15, Job. 20:4-9, Psalms 115:17-18, Eccl.9:46.

Job's understanding of death was in using the word 'sleep' to explain it. Taking this ancient man's word for what we know to be only a simple understanding is the wrong stance here.

 

[sdktlk]

This is the EXACT view I formerly held when I was a devout Cambellite ! I had heard and harped on Luke 16's Rich Man & Lazarus story as THE definitive answer of the question of what happens immediately after death because it came directly from the mouth of Jesus himself. In my mind the saved went to the "Paradise" side of the hadean realm while the lost went to the other side of the "great gulf" into torments where they await judgment. I even belief that when Jesus died that his soul went to the Paradise side initially then crossed the gulf to minister to those in torment.
My view drastically changed as I got more familiar with the Hebrew scriptures and the overall picture the Bible's books in an entirety paint with regards to death and the nature of man. I then was able to look at the parable in Luke 16 with less biased eyes that didn't view it with my old preconceptions. This allowed me to see it in the full context that Jesus delivered it in and I then realized that it really had nothing to do with death and the afterlife. Instead it was about the Jews, specifically those who "sat in Moses' seat" as leaders embodied in the Rich Man who would lose their place of favor only to see others they consider lessor men, even Goyim inheriting the promises make to Abraham.
What we must realize is that to the Jew of Jesus' day, the term Hades was equal to the Hebrew concept of Sheol and what Sheol was was NOT a place of departed souls, but rather the grave, the heart of the earth, the very place of the dead. To the Jew, the 'afterlife' did not begin at death, instead it began at the resurrection. Death to the Jew was a cessation of life where they went to sleep with their fathers in the heart of the earth.

We must be careful not to get to Jewish in our thinking, for the Word of God is a continuing revelation. Let us remember the Lord said, "God is not the God of the dead, but OF THE LIVING." (Mat22:32) The Lord Jesus told the thief, "today you shall be with me in paradise," He did not say "I'll join you after the resurrection."

 

[Sam21]

The idea that at death our soul departs from the body as popular as it is, is an idea that has no scriptural backing. The soul (ruach) is defined by scripture as the whole person. When God gives His spirit (the breath of life) to a creature of flesh, that creature then BECOMES a living soul. The spirit, which is the animating force that gives life is God's and when a man dies it returns to God who gave it. Again, this spirit, (which means unseen force or breath) is NOT the man it is the life force that God gives to the man to quicken him.
Remember Jesus' words as he hung dying on Calvary? He said: "Father, into Your hands a commend my spirit." This tells us that the spirit that Jesus had went to the Father when Jesus died. If this spirit was the breath of life or animating force given by God we have no problem, BUT if the spirit was Jesus we have a conundrum for Jesus said to Mary after his resurrection the following in John 20:17: “Do not cling to me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father; but go to my brothers and say to them, ‘I am ascending to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God.â€'
Now, consider WHEN Jesus became a life giving spirit. In 1 Corinthians 15 it talks about the 1st Adam, Jesus as the 2nd Adam, and about the resurrection that comes because of Jesus who as the firstborn from the dead has become a life giving spirit.
Having said all this, if we are honest we are left with but 2 choices. Either Jesus ministered to the "spirits in prison" prior to his death, or he did so after his resurrection. While he was in the heart of the earth, he was truly dead and remember there’s no doing, thinking, wisdom, or knowledge, in the grave, so he could not have done any ministering at that time.

As readers who wish to understand, we must determine which choice fits best with scripture and makes the most sense as it relates to WHO the "spirits in prison" Peter spoke of were. Peter identifies the WHEN of these 'spirits' but it is left to us to determine the WHO. Does it make more sense and fit into the biblical narrative better if we conclude that these 'spirits' were the men and women killed in the flood or does it make more since to believe these spirits to be the sons of God spoken of in Genesis 6 who MAY in fact have been spirit beings?

Matt 25:28 fear not them which kill the BODY but are not able to kill the SOUL, but rather rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell. Jesus was clear that the body can be killed without killing the soul. So your opening statement that the soul does not depart from the body at death is contrary to the bible.

 

[sdktlk]

The concept of TOTAL DEPRAVITY espoused by the site the quote comes from is in opposition to what the narrative of scripture unvails. Though scripture tells us we are born into a world afflicted with sin, it does NOT tell us that we are born guilty of any sin. So, to say that at birth a person is spiritualy dead is not in line with the message of God.
It also defines death 'as the suspension of the personal union of soul and body.' I assume that such a definition is loosely based on James 2:26 which many translations have as: "just as the body without the spirit is dead, so is faith without work." This is a correct rendering, BUT one MUST understand that the spirit mentioned here is NOT the soul. This spirit is the breath of life given to all creatures by God that animates or quickens them. When this breath (which is a word that could properly replace spirit in this text) is removed from the body (returning to God who gave it), the soul, which is the whole person, dies.

So, just as a body that isn’t breathing (without the spirit) is dead, faith without action (works) is dead.

So definition it uses for death is incorrect from a scriptural standpoint. Death in scripture is defined as a cessation of life, NOT a separation of body and soul.

Scripture tells us that we are all born dead, "For as in Adam ALL DIE." (1Cor 15:22) "For since by one man (Adam) came death." (1Cor 15:21) This death is not physical death, this death is spiritual death, that is spiritual separation from God.

" And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat: but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die." (Gen 2:16-17) In the day that Adam ate of the tree, on that very day, Adam died with respect to being able to have fellowship with God. Physical death was only a manifestation of the death that Adam died in that day. It was hundreds of years before Adam died physically as a result of what happened in that day that Adam died.

That is not to say that man is totally depraved, a dead in Adam man can do "good." But, none the less, his good works will not earn him a place in heaven, only an acceptance of the Blood of Jesus will accomplish that.

 

[Elijah674]

Scripture tells us that we are all born dead, "For as in Adam ALL DIE." (1Cor 15:22) "For since by one man (Adam) came death." (1Cor 15:21) This death is not physical death, this death is spiritual death, that is spiritual separation from God.

" And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat: but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die." (Gen 2:16-17) In the day that Adam ate of the tree, on that very day, Adam died with respect to being able to have fellowship with God. Physical death was only a manifestation of the death that Adam died in that day. It was hundreds of years before Adam died physically as a result of what happened in that day that Adam died.

That is not to say that man is totally depraved, a dead in Adam man can do "good." But, none the less, his good works will not earn him a place in heaven, only an acceptance of the Blood of Jesus will accomplish that.

Excellent Post (1..;))
Christ was talking about us all in John 3:3-8, we are REQUIRED to start all over again. (recreated!) And you are correct with the even today ones, we see some love, just not the LOVE that we are required to be Born With.

--Elijah

 

[Elijah674]

Me again:
It seems that some take this above post personal as to them??? (see Rom. 8:14?)

But let me say that 'i' pay very little attention to personal posting ones! In fact one on this site that I never read their post because they have been blocked by me for quite a spell because my inbox was being bombarded! (persomal and kind of nasty as well) And it has only been recently that it was found by me that who I thought was a he, is a she? (that is for me!) So when they post, I do not know what they post.

Now: About this post of mine above. This is not the only site that I post on. My mind had been trained to hate sin & LOVE the sinner. The above post [TAKES IN] what has been POSTED all over the Earth! (Got that?? NOTHING PERSONAL!! But the 'teachings' 'i' see as satanic!) And I have posted this many many times before that very little if anything is personally meant by me. (a few exceptions are personal Brothers! And a few that really seem to be 'sincere' searchers are in my mail box)

CASE IN POINT: Here is a post from another site. On this site one [post] said in documentation that God indeed lied & satan told the truth in Gen. 3:3-5. And even with that being posted, it is easier to understand the post & post back truth as you see it. In other words, THE POST IS UP FRONT & not like some others that are not.

Here is another post to me:
The Bible is literal with some metaphoric messages and that is what is meant by the "worm' Elijah.

From post #41

[FONT=Verdana,arial]Elijah comment:[/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana,arial]PS: It is interesting how the Holy Spirit is working with [some] at the present time! (see Acts 3:19) I mentioned about two in prison that we were studying with?? Both are 35 & minister's sons. One Pentecostal & the other of the two minister's is Baptist. And [I have never] in all my years found such quick learner's of the Holy Spirits Leading as these two boys! And before it all shuts down, we will again see Joel 2 & Acts 2 repeated! Eccl. 3:15 But all of these Rev. 17:5 ones have their feet already in solid satanic spiritual concrete. Immortal maggots burning eternally in hell![/FONT]

And by the way Webster has been around about as long as these eternal burning maggots, huh?
metaphoric: 'a figure of speech in which a word for one idea or thing is used in place of an other to suggest a likeness between them'

But the thing is, is that these false 'teachers' have been teaching this stuff non/metaphorically for well past any 120 years for an actual truth! See Gen. 6:3 + they claim to be Born Again along with being 'LED of the Holy Ghost. Rom. 8:14
--Elijah

PS: And yes,these two men, were being CONVICTED by the HOLY SPIRIT while 'IN PRISON'!

--Elijah here again with just some Bible verses!;)

Obadia 1

[15] For the day of the LORD is near upon all the heathen: as thou hast done, it shall be done unto thee: thy reward shall return upon thine own head.
[16] For as ye have drunk upon my holy mountain, so shall all the heathen drink continually, yea, they shall drink, and they shall swallow down, and they shall be as though they had not been. (and these ones?? See Heb. 6:1-6 + 2 Peter 2:18-22)


Mal.4
[1] For, behold, the day cometh, that shall burn as an oven; and all the proud, yea, and all that do wickedly, shall be stubble: and the day that cometh shall burn them up, saith the LORD of hosts, that it shall leave them neither root nor branch.
[2] But unto you that fear my name shall the Sun of righteousness arise with healing in his wings; and ye shall go forth, and grow up as calves of the stall.
[3] And ye shall tread down the wicked; for they shall be ashes under the soles of your feet in the day that I shall do this, saith the LORD of hosts.

Luke 12

[45] But and if that servant say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming; and shall begin to beat the menservants and maidens, and to eat and drink, and to be drunken; (spiritually as well!)
[46] The lord of that servant will come in a day when he looketh not for him, and at an hour when he is not aware, and will cut him in sunder, and will appoint him his portion with the unbelievers. (truely seen as CONDITIONAL!)

[47] And that servant, which knew his lord's will, and prepared not himself, neither did according to his will, [shall be beaten with many stripes].
[48] But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes. For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more.

Gen. 19
[24] Then the LORD rained upon Sodom and upon Gomorrah brimstone and fire from the LORD out of heaven;
[25] And he overthrew those cities, and all the plain, and all the inhabitants of the cities, and that which grew upon the ground.
[26] But his wife looked back from behind him, and she became a pillar of salt.
[27] And Abraham gat up early in the morning to the place where he stood before the LORD:
[28] And he looked toward Sodom and Gomorrah, and toward all the land of the plain, and beheld, and, lo, the smoke of the country went up as the smoke of a furnace.

Jude 1 (and Jude description!)
[6] And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.
[7] Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.

(and some say that this example has all still burning today, huh!)

 

[Prince]

1 Peter 3:18-20 says:

For Christ also suffered once for sins, the righteous for the unrighteous, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh but made alive in the spirit, in which he went and proclaimed to the spirits in prison, because they formerly did not obey, when God's patience waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was being prepared, in which a few, that is, eight persons, were brought safely through water.

Who or what were these 'spirits in prison'? Some have said that they were departed souls but that idea stands opposed to what much of scripture seems to teach about the soul being the whole of man that dies. Others have said that this text is saying that Jesus, after being resurrected and then being gifted with life in the spirit which is the immortality and incorruptability spoken of in 1 Cor 15, went to the rebel spirit beings (angels) who were locked away in Tartarus (Jude 1:7) to proclaim the good news of the kingdom to them letting them know that through his sacrifice they could be reconsiled to the FATHER. The proponents of the 2nd view use texts like Colossians 1:20 to support the claim that Jesus' blood atoned for the sin of man and spirit beings alike.

[God] saw that it was good for him to be complete in everything, and used [Jesus] to bring everything back into a good relationship with Himself, by making peace through his blood [that was shed] on the pole, regardless of whether these things are heavenly or earthly.

Well the long and short of it is.

The spirits in prison are those people who did not overcome - they lived and died before Jesus came. It is not fair that I can simply repent for my sins, and others before Christ had to actually work, take a animal shed is blood and so on.

So Christ went back and preached to these people giving them a chance to believe on Him as weknow do, and I believe many were saved.