Star Fast Episode III: Repent of the Sin

[ndp]

Re: ...

Hey ndp...
I really am sorry about that last comment I made in my last post. It was stupid of me to call you stuck up. I'll be more patient next time.

No problem. As God's Word says, we should all be quick to listen, slow to speak, and slow to become angry.

--ndp

 

[ndp]

That is hypercalvinism, and I don't believe in that.

It's not even close to hypercalvinism. All I did was quote Jesus' own words. If you're going to just put things in little boxes and label them according to your own prejudices, there's little point in entering into the discussion in the first place.

God doesn't sit over us telling us every single moment what to do...

So you're saying that Paul got it wrong in Romans 8:9-14? And that Jesus was misguided in John 5:19?

He does care if it is impeding our relationship to Him, other believers or holding us back from something He wants us to do, otherwise no.

What's concerning here is that you seem to think there are things which don't fit into any of those categories.

I do seek his will in anything, but sometimes I believe He really doesn't care if we go see a movie or watch a sporting event or something like that unless it is taking away from something more important.

Which is pretty convenient for you, considering you want to do those things anyway, right?

Your kidding me right? God regrets ever making us??? no

It's right there in Genesis 6:6. And I hope you're not trying to say that things are any better in the world today than they were back then!

The context section was completely bogus. According to them we can interpret the bible according to a feeling ( the holy spirit does lead us, but it doesn't stray from the meaning of the bible ever).

I don't recall them saying anything about just interpreting the Bible according to a "feeling." You seem to be over-reacting a bit.

It is gnosticism because from what I am reading they have some weird idea that anything physically here is evil.

Where'd you get that idea?

That is what the gnostics believed and they were heretics. If we should boycott this movie why shouldn't we boycott sports, TV altogether, radio, plays, public events or anything that non-believers have ever done?

I think you're missing the point in a fairly major way. They're not even talking about a boycott.

--ndp

 

[JoelW]

...

Yes, I agree that one should be "Willing" to fast for God. That's not my gripe. My gripe was the way in which the article was written, making Christians who go to see Episode 3 somehow "Un-christian" is wrong. If a person feels nothing wrong in going to see the movie, they should Not feel pressured into fasting from it. That article should have made that clear. But, instead there is nothing but a condemnation leveled against Christians who don't feel the need to fast from the movie. That is no better than condemning a person's devotion to God just because they don't abstain from meat. And, that is precisely why Paul rebuked the Roman Christians, because they were making other Christians feel like they were not devoted to God like they should be because they felt (Free) to eat meat. Telling them that they should be "Persuaded in your own minds." In other words, Paul is telling them "Keep your opinions to yourself".

Again, I am not trying to say that the article should never had been written. I am only saying that it could have been written in a better way. Sure, it's okay to fast from Episode 3 if the person feels like it's a great way to show God they love Him. That is awesome. But, it is also showing God that you love Him by trusting that He wants to pleasure you. He gives you richly all things to enjoy. But, the most enjoyable thing about God is that we can have a personal relationship with Him through His Son and by His Spirit. That is what gives me the greatest pleasure.

About the loving your neighbor issue, you are (partially) right. But, it's called "Brotherly" love, not Agape. Agape is perfect Love. Philios is Brotherly love. And, contrary to what you may think, brotherly love is "Not" perfect. But, God honors it nonetheless. Otherwise He would never have commanded us to have it. Because, without brotherly love, you will Never reach Agape love.

So, we may love ourselves in an imperfect way at first, nevertheless we are commanded to love our neighbors just as much. Jesus had to ask Peter three different times if he loved Him before Peter could answer with deep, honest feeling. Jesus was not rebuking Peter, He was trying to get Peter's heart to match his words. It was "Imperfect" love. Yet, Jesus told him to feed His lambs, and then went on to sheep... indicating the (Growth) from imperfection to perfection. From immaturity to maturity.

The only way Agape love can even be attained is to first start loving with immature love. Jesus did not give Agape to Peter on that shore. Peter struggled with what little love that he had. And, even Long after the day of Pentecost, Paul literally had to publically rebuke Peter for showing favoritism to the Jews over the Gentiles. His love had not been "Perfected", even (long after) the Holy Spirit was given to him. Yet, he was commanded by Christ to love with what imperfect love that he had.

So, just because a person's love is imperfect does not mean that God is not working through it. God did not say "Love your neighbor perfectly"... He simply said to love them. With what kind of love? Brotherly love. The same way in which you love yourself. In other words... if you can't start loving where you are at, you will never get God's kind of love. So, in reality our "Imperfect" love is not "worthless" after all. Otherwise, Jesus would not have commanded us to use it.

Again, I apologize for making that stupid remark. I'll do better from now on

 

[cubedbee]

Well, I for one know that I'll be there on opening night, in good Christian conscience.

 

[ndp]

Re: ...

That is no better than condemning a person's devotion to God just because they don't abstain from meat. And, that is precisely why Paul rebuked the Roman Christians, because they were making other Christians feel like they were not devoted to God like they should be because they felt (Free) to eat meat. Telling them that they should be "Persuaded in your own minds." In other words, Paul is telling them "Keep your opinions to yourself".

Sorry, but I think you've seriously misrepresented that whole "meat" issue just to support your preconceived conclusions. You might say that you're taking it "out of context," even!

But, it is also showing God that you love Him by trusting that He wants to pleasure you.

That has to be one of the most incredible statements I've ever seen from someone who claims to be a Christian! :o Are you seriously telling me you can't see how insanely self-centered that kind of idea is?

He gives you richly all things to enjoy. But, the most enjoyable thing about God is that we can have a personal relationship with Him through His Son and by His Spirit. That is what gives me the greatest pleasure.

And your personal relationship with Him involves Him pleasing you and letting you do whatever you want?

--ndp

 

[ndp]

Re: ...

JoelW,

To try to narrow down the focus of our discussion a little, could you give a yes or no answer to this:

Do you agree with the following statement, quoted from my earlier message?

The point is that pleasure, outside of God's will, is always wrong.

--ndp

 

[Blazin Bones]

What about the fact that some people may go with an unsaved friend and use that time to build fellowship. I intend to Watch episode three. However, I did make a similar descision never to watch an Austin Powers movie. While different portions of those movies, I have not watched anything more than trailers.

 

[JoelW]

...

Ndp...

You made the assumption that I was taking the whole meat issue "Out Of Context". Would you care to show me how I am doing that?

It really is not taking it "Out of Context" when you really stop to think about it. That website "Condemns" Christians who don't feel like there is anything wrong with going to see Episode 3. Just as some of the Roman Christians "Condemned" other Christians for not seeing anything wrong with eating meat. It is the same thing. Christians condemning other Christians for what they allow. And Paul himself (Condemned) such an attitude. So no, I am most certainly Not taking that scripture out of context. It still applies.

As for your statement that saying that God wants to pleasure us is "Incredible",... it's no more incredible than the verse I used to prove it. Paul himself told Timothy that God gives us ((Richly)) all things to ((Enjoy)). Jesus Himself told the people that God does (Not) give a stone to someone who asks for bread, nor a snake to someone who asks for a fish. (Matthew 7;9-11)

So you see, if it's to be thought an "Incredible" thing for a Christian to say that God wants to pleasure us, then those Scriptures should have been left out of the Bible. Because they reveal a God who delights in giving us Good Things rather than bad. So, if I am "Insanely Self-Centered" for saying what I said then blame God for it. He's the one who said that if I delight in Him He would give me the desires of my heart (Psalm 37;4).

Now as for your comment, that my serving Him is predicated upon Him letting me do anything I want, you are actually going way out on a limb and making false assumptions. I never said no such thing. This whole arguement started because of the way that website was written. I am not telling people not to fast from the movie. If they feel like they should then I am all for it. That is awesome. But, the way that the article was written is nothing but a wholesale condemnation of any Christian who does not fast from the film. That is the book of Romans all over again. Christians condemning other Christians for what they allow. It is wrong, conceited, arrogant, and abusive... all on one package. And, if Paul were here today he would tell you exactly what he told the Roman Christians... "Let them be persuaded in their own minds. Stop condemning them."

If the article was written as a (Request) rather than a blatant character assassination I would not have gotten so defensive. There is absolutely nothing wrong with (Asking) people if they would consider fasting the film. But, it gets into the realm of Spiritual Abuse when Christians who don't feel the need to fast from the movie are made out to be worse than infidels. If it's not in their heart's to do it, then they should not be pressured into doing it. What another believer (Allows) is not up to you, me, or anyone to condemn. As long as it's not blatantly defying Scripture, it is alright. And, I have read nowhere in the Bible that tells Christians not to go and see Episode 3. So, it's entirely a (Personal) descision that no one else has the right to condemn.

As for your asking me if I agree that any pleasure outside of God's will is wrong, yes absolutely. I do agree with you on that. But, that still does not negate the fact that He gives us richly all things to Enjoy. He wants us to have pleasure. Not outside of His will, but inside. If we abide in Him and His Word abides in us then we can ask whatever we "Desire" and it (Will) be done for us. Not (Might) be done for us,... but (Will) be done for us. Those are the words of Jesus Himself in John 15.

 

[ndp]

Re: ...

As for your asking me if I agree that any pleasure outside of God's will is wrong, yes absolutely. I do agree with you on that.

So would this be an accurate outline of your logic:

Premise: Any pleasure outside of God's will is wrong.

Premise: God wants me to have pleasure.

Premise: It would give me pleasure to go see Star Wars Episode III.

Conclusion: Therefore, it must be God's will for me to go see Star Wars Episode III.

:-? --ndp

 

[JoelW]

...

Actually, if I really did want to see the movie just to have a little fun and enjoy myself I would. Not because I am shirking off my responsibility to God, but because by that time I would have already known whether it was okay with Him or not. I don't have to spend a long time praying about it. If God did not want me to see it He would let me know. And, if He let me know that I should not go and see it then I would not go.

You are absolutely right that Christians should be considerate of God. That is not the issue. The issue is that there are some extremely hurtful things that are said on that website that needs to be corrected. No one want's their Christian walk called into question when they are not doing anything that can clearly be shown from Scripture is wrong. When it comes to things like going to see Episode 3, people should not be "Manipulated" into seeing things from a particular viewpoint. If they are not allowed to have their own viewpoint about things that the Bible does not directly address then that is abuse of power.

Please, I hope you are not offended by anything that I have written. That was not my intention at all. My intention was to show that God is not all about misery and suffering. Yes, if we suffer (with) Him... not apart fom Him... we will Reign with Him. There are times when we are called to battle, but there are also times when we are called to pleasure. Solomon tells us that there is a time for war, and a time to play. A time to cry and a time to laugh.

Jesus is Emmanuel... God (With) us. He Himself went through tough times. But, there were also times that He spent in the company of playful children. We as Christians need to learn that balance. We are not always called to war. We are also called to play.

So, while I agree with you, that we should be considerate of God, we are also being (In-considerate) of Him when all we do is unsheath the sword. Remember when Jesus told Peter to put his sword back in it's sheath? He tells us to do the same thing a lot of the times, but we don't listen. We fight and struggle all the time in our attempts to "Please Him", but never see just how disappointed He is, in that we are so full of war that we forget how to be children.

We need to learn when it is time to just put down the sword and take a break. We can't fight all the time. Some of the most awesome revelations about God came to me when I just stopped trying to please Him, and sat back and listened. Just like when God was not revealed to Elijah in the powerful wind, the earthquake and the destroying fire... He reveals Himself in the strangest ways. He reveals Himself in times of rest. In a still small voice.

So, we need to just stop fighting to please Him and just let Him give us rest. Because His yoke really is easy, and His burdon light. (Matthew 11;28-30) That's the way our Christian life should be. Remember that Jesus Himself condemned having heavy burdons (Luke 11;46). So, we should not be trying to place any on people. Especially our Christian brothers and sisters.

God bless you much

 

[ndp]

Re: ...

If God did not want me to see it He would let me know. And, if He let me know that I should not go and see it then I would not go.

And He can't use a website like the one we're discussing for precisely that purpose?

The issue is that there are some extremely hurtful things that are said on that website that needs to be corrected.

Sorry, but I didn't see anything hurtful about it at all. Certainly, it could be viewed as offensive by some people, but then some people thought Jesus' preaching was offensive too. Actually, the gospel is supposed to be offensive to our sinful nature.

Personally, I'd like to see more websites like the StarFast one, calling Christians to take a good, long look at their lives and ask a few serious questions. You talk later about striking a balance. Well, the problem is that, in today's church, the balance is way heavier on the "let's just have fun and do what we want" side, than the "holiness and surrender to the will of God" side. So, to me, this site serves simply to redress a little of the "balance."

No one want's their Christian walk called into question when they are not doing anything that can clearly be shown from Scripture is wrong.

Personally, I welcome my Christian walk being questioned at any time and for any reason. Anyone who is genuinely seeking to follow Jesus and follow Scripture should welcome any kind of questioning or challenge that drives them back to Scripture and to seek the face and voice of God.

As for this specific issue, Scripture very clearly says that we should not be engrossed in, or love, anything in the world - which, of course, includes movies. Therefore, if anyone cares so much about a Star Wars movie that they are looking forward to going to see it, and they're not prepared to give it up as a witness to their love for God, then I'd say there's a legitimate Scriptural point behind whatever "questioning" the site is doing.

If people have a clear conscience, or if they just don't agree and want to go see the movie anyway, then they're free to do so. It seems to me like the only people who make a fuss are the ones who have precisely the kind of problem the site is trying to deal with.

When it comes to things like going to see Episode 3, people should not be "Manipulated" into seeing things from a particular viewpoint. If they are not allowed to have their own viewpoint about things that the Bible does not directly address then that is abuse of power.

With all due respect, give me a break! If that site is trying to "manipulate" people into seeing things from a particular point of view, then you are doing exactly the same thing with all your posts here. There's no point even opening up this line of bogus argument.

Please, I hope you are not offended by anything that I have written.

Not in the slightest.

That was not my intention at all. My intention was to show that God is not all about misery and suffering.

I'm very well aware of that fact already, and have never said anything to suggest otherwise.

Yes, if we suffer (with) Him... not apart fom Him... we will Reign with Him. There are times when we are called to battle, but there are also times when we are called to pleasure.

Quite so. But, going back to the issue at hand, the question is then: have you been "called" to go see Episode III, or are you just doing it because you want to please yourself? That is really the fundamental issue here.

So, while I agree with you, that we should be considerate of God, we are also being (In-considerate) of Him when all we do is unsheath the sword.

As I've already said, I fully agree that either extreme is sinful. And, as I've tried to point out, the only way to get the "balance" correct is to be led by the Holy Spirit and surrendered to God's will - not to somehow think that we can decide for ourselves when we need to play and when we need to fight (to use your analogy.) That's the whole foundation of the Christian life - to deny ourselves our own desires, and only do God's will, just as Jesus did. That doesn't mean we don't play, or we don't watch movies, or we don't do other "fun" things - it just means that we let Him lead us into those things rather than just following our own selfish desires. That way, there is holiness in everything and we can be separate from the world even while in the world.

I'm not sure what's so hard to understand about that. Although I can see how so many "Christians" find it hard to accept or put into practice.

So, we need to just stop fighting to please Him and just let Him give us rest.

Of course. But I don't think anyone's been talking about "fighting to please Him" and I don't see that that's what this site is doing either. It's about love for God. It's about humbling ourselves and allowing God to show us where we are too engrossed in the world and in our own pleasure. It's about an opportunity to be convicted by the Holy Spirit and take a small step towards repentance.

Remember that Jesus Himself condemned having heavy burdons (Luke 11;46). So, we should not be trying to place any on people. Especially our Christian brothers and sisters.

If you think skipping a movie is a "heavy burden" then I would respectfully suggest that you've got some spiritual issues that need to be dealt with. I really don't see how a website that is calling people to voluntarily fast from a movie in order to make what, for me, is a very valid and important point, is placing a "heavy burden" on anyone?!

All said and done, I would suggest that your own defensiveness is projecting a lot of "meaning" onto that site that simply isn't there. So, peacefully and respectfully, I'd encourage you to go and rethink this whole thing and start with admitting the possibility that you might just be plain wrong.

--ndp

 

[JoelW]

...

You asked if God could use that website to reveal to me that I should fast, my answer is No, He would not. (1st John 2;27) tells me that I don't need someone else to tell me what God wants. He does it Himself "In" me. So, that website has no bearing on what I "Should" do. If God did not specifically tell me to fast the film, then the choice is up to me.

Read 1st Corinthians 7 and you will find that Paul (Never) commanded a husband and wife to fast from sexual intimacy. He simply said that if they wanted to they can. But, it must be a "Consentual" fast, not a solitary fast. So, if one wanted to fast and the other did not, the one who wanted to fast is commanded by Paul Not to deprive his/her spouse of sexual intimacy. In other words, if it's not a "Consentual" fast, then it does not apply. Which means that fasting from pleasure is a "Choice", not a command. Which means, from the issue of fasting from pleasure, God leaves that choice up (to you.) So, I don't agree that you have to have God's permission to fast from pleasure. That is (No) sign of love, to have to ask God to fast from pleasure for Him. If you don't choose it, God will not choose it for you either.

But, if you want to know what God's way of fasting is, look in Isaiah 58;5-12. God actually reveals that the (fast) He wants is (Not) one where you afflict your soul and deprive yourself of pleasure,... but that you help the needy. THAT is the (Fast) that God has chosen.

Some have thought by Jesus' words in Matthew 9;15 is a (Command) to fast, but if you take it as a command then you must know "How" to fast. What is God's way of fasting? Look at Isaiah 58;5-12 again. Not fasting from food and pleasure, but helping the needy. So, if you take Jesus' words in Matthew 9;15 as a command then go back to Isaiah 58;5-12 to find out (How) God wants you to fast.

I however take Jesus' words,... not to be a command,... but a Prophecy.

Again, I am not saying that it's alright for a Christian to live their life solely for pleasure, so don't take me the wrong way. Scripture already warns us of that in (2nd Timothy 3;4). And, I have already stated that I am (Not) against fasting from Episode 3. This thread is all about the way that the website in question is written. It is spiritual arm-twisting. If it was laid out solely as a (Request) rather than a condemnation of people's choices then it would have been alright. But, the author makes it abundantly clear in the third paragraph that Christians who see the movie are on their way to Hell. Yes, the third paragraph is about (Christians), not sinners. Because, you (don't) pray that sinners will not go to a movie,... you pray for their' Salvation. So, the third paragraph is nothing but a condemnation leveled against Christians who go to see the movie.

And, as for the whole "Engrossing" issue, you are right about that. But, no one here has said that they would not be prepared to skip seeing it have they? And, even if anyone did, it would still give you no right pass judgement on them. God is the one who will set things right (In Them). Not you and not me.

I have no problem with what you wrote about the "Balance" issue. That is true. But, that is (Not) what the website is preaching. People are not reading into that website what is not there. They are seeing what it really is. It's abusive, arrogant, and even dangerous in some of the things it says. Getting away from the Christians being condemned for watching Episode 3 for a moment,... It's just not right to tell someone that God thinks they are worth nothing. God called Jacob "Precious" in Isaiah 43;4. And in Acts 10;34 we read that God is (No) respecter of persons. So, if Jacob was highly valued to God, then so is everyone else.

Jesus revealed in John 3;16-17 that God (Deeply) loves the world. You don't love something that is of no value to you. That's just the way it is.

God even thinks that there is something "Valuable" about satan. He would not allow Michael the Archangel to insult satan in the book of Jude. So, clearly God respects everyone,... even the devil.

Now, as for your insinuation that I think skipping a movie is a "Heavy Burdon", it reveals just how much you twist people's words. I NEVER said that skipping Episode 3 is a heavy burdon. I was showing how that the website in question is very condemning of people who don't see things like the author sees them. That is nothing more than a trip back to the days of the Pharisees. Condemning anyone who does not share their viewpoint. Remember, all this is about the website in question. If I thought that skipping Episode 3 was a heavy burdon then I would not have been commending people's choices to do so all this time would I?

That website is not calling for a "Voluntary" fast as you put it. It's actually condemning the choice Not to fast from it. Don't you see,... something that is "Voluntary" is NOT a choice between a right and a wrong,... but it is a choice between two rights. There is absolutely nothing in that article that suggests that if people choose to go and see the film then it is alright. On the contrary, according to that article there is only "One" right choice to be made. That removes any sense of "Voluntary" choice there is, and replaces it with arm-twisting.

 

[ndp]

Re: ...

You asked if God could use that website to reveal to me that I should fast, my answer is No, He would not. (1st John 2;27) tells me that I don't need someone else to tell me what God wants. He does it Himself "In" me. So, that website has no bearing on what I "Should" do. If God did not specifically tell me to fast the film, then the choice is up to me.

And yet all through Scripture God frequently uses men to speak to other men. But apparently you are somehow exempt from this.

But, if you want to know what God's way of fasting is, look in Isaiah 58;5-12. God actually reveals that the (fast) He wants is (Not) one where you afflict your soul and deprive yourself of pleasure,... but that you help the needy. THAT is the (Fast) that God has chosen.

And so you don't think that using $25 to evangelize and spread the gospel, instead of going to please yourself with a movie, is helping the needy?

And, I have already stated that I am (Not) against fasting from Episode 3.

That's nice, but it's easy to say that while you're not actually doing it yourself, isn't it.

But, the author makes it abundantly clear in the third paragraph that Christians who see the movie are on their way to Hell.

That's a highly inaccurate and misleading statement. What it actually says is this:

"Out of love for those who are watching Star Wars on the way to hell, Christians and churches everywhere should be setting an example by fasting from this movie."

This is nowhere even close to saying that any Christian who sees the movie is on their way to Hell. It's a simple statement of fact: many people who are watching Star Wars (either unbelievers, or those who may simply "claim" to be Christians) are on their way to Hell. I can't see any argument to this, especially if you take into account Matthew 7:23.

It's no wonder you have problems with the site, if this is an example of how you're distorting what it says.

And, as for the whole "Engrossing" issue, you are right about that. But, no one here has said that they would not be prepared to skip seeing it have they?

Again, with all due respect, give me a break! Being "prepared" to do something, and actually doing it are two very different things! Does Jesus say we must be "prepared" to give up everything to follow Him, or does He say we actually have to give up everything to be His disciple?

Anyone can say they would be "prepared" to do something. I think someone once said that the road to Hell is paved with good intentions, or something like that.

And, even if anyone did, it would still give you no right pass judgement on them. God is the one who will set things right (In Them). Not you and not me.

What an incredibly cold and unloving attitude!

People are not reading into that website what is not there.

Your own previous distortion of the "Christians who see the movie are going to Hell" issue firmly disproves this point.

It's just not right to tell someone that God thinks they are worth nothing.

I looked up the references they provided and it seems quite Biblical to me. Sorry, but I don't see what your problem is on that one either.

Jesus revealed in John 3;16-17 that God (Deeply) loves the world. You don't love something that is of no value to you. That's just the way it is.

Maybe we humans in our sinful nature don't love anything that we think is worthless, but God isn't restricted by our rules or our sin, is He? Unless you're trying to put God in a box - in which case He's not really God.

It seems to me that it is precisely the fact that God does love something that is of no value, and that He did die for those who were worthless, that is what makes the gospel and the love of God so amazing.

To be honest, I think this is the worst thing you've written yet. I find your attempt to reduce the gospel down to some merely human level seriously insulting to the gospel and the glory of God.

God even thinks that there is something "Valuable" about satan. He would not allow Michael the Archangel to insult satan in the book of Jude. So, clearly God respects everyone,... even the devil.

You appear to have a severely warped idea of "value" and "respect."

If I thought that skipping Episode 3 was a heavy burdon then I would not have been commending people's choices to do so all this time would I?

Again, it's easy to say whatever you want when your not actually doing anything yourself except criticizing some website.

There is absolutely nothing in that article that suggests that if people choose to go and see the film then it is alright.

I may have said this before, but isn't the point that we are to be led by God through the Holy Spirit. If we just choose to go see the movie then, yes, that is totally wrong. If we are truly led by the Holy Spirit to go see the movie, then that's fine.

And, on that note, I notice that you did not answer my previous question:

"But, going back to the issue at hand, the question is then: have you been "called" to go see Episode III, or are you just doing it because you want to please yourself? That is really the fundamental issue here."

--ndp

 

[JoelW]

...

1st John 2;27 is there (Precisely) to warn me not to take other people's word for it. I will not take another person's word to fast something. If God does not say it to me (personally) then I will not take a website's word for it just because they claim it's what God wants.

Read Acts 17, where the Bereans were actually (Commended) because they would (Not) take the Apostle's word as God's word. They went and studied it out for themselves. So, I will not take anyone's word, that I should fast Episode 3. I will be persuaded in my own mind.

As for your comment about not using $25 to evangelize and spread the Gospel rather than pleasing myself, first off you have no idea what you are talking about. What if, for instance I take that money and go to a movie, only to find out that the person sitting next to me needs to hear about Christ. That could be the very reason why I have not felt like God wanted me to avoid seeing it. And, even if that were not the case, what if God had a spiritual blessing to impart to me (From) that movie? Or, what if God wanted me to go see the movie just to have a little pleasure,... or what if it's all three in one?

You see, your comment about using my money to evangelize rather than seeing the movie has no bearing at all on what I should do with it. What if I gave some money to fund a Christian cause, only to find that it went not to needs, but to some selfish gain of someone else? You are not God, so you have no buisness telling me what I should and should not do with the money I get anyway. You say that I am putting God in a box, yet you try to limit my ability to believe that He could use Any circumstance for revealing Himself to the world, even if I spend money on a movie-ticket.

And, about your comment about it being easy to say, that I am not against fasting the film,... I will just say to you that it's none of your buisness what I do in my walk with Christ. You would not have even made that statement if you were not trying to show how spiritually corrupted that I am. And, your statement about using $25 dollars to aid evangelism instead of using it for my pleasure shows just how untrustworthy your advice really is.

Answer me this. How do you "Know" that God is speaking through you on this issue? You might say "It's Scriptural",... but so is enjoying yourself. So, how do you (Know) that it is God telling you to tell me those things? Don't point to scripture to prove your point, because I could also do the same to prove mine. You see what is going on here? You are trying to get it across that God is speaking these things through you to me, yet you are acting as If God cannot be saying (something else) to me. That my stance on this issue is the wrong stance. That is the perfect example of Pharisee religion.

THAT is why Paul ordered Christians to stop disputing over such petty things, which only end in strife. Neither of us are giving ground on this issue, so it's stupid to continue it.

Now, for the issue of the third paragraph on the website in question,... as I have already stated, why isn't it even hinted that if a Christian feels alright to see the movie that they can do so without sin? The reason that it is not is because the website makes it very clear that to not fast the film is sin. You may say differently, but you will be wrong. No where in that article is it even hinted that it's Okay to see the movie, which makes it manipulation. It is a one-sided article whether you think so or not.

About the being "Prepared" issue that you brought up, how do you know that I have not already abandoned all to follow Him? Just because I say that it's alright for me to go to a movie, is that saying that I have not left all and followed Him? If you say "Yes", then you are putting yourself in the position of being a judge, which Jesus and Paul both ardently condemned. If you say "No", then why do you bring it up at all? The only reason you even brought up that point is to accuse me of not leaving all to follow Him, which you should have been wise enough not to do. Remember that Jesus said that if you judge others you will be judged by the same standard. He also said that those who live by the sword will die by it. So, work out your own Salvation with fear and trembling, and I will do the same for myself. Thank you.

And, no... people are Not mis-interpreting that website. It is still a "Cold" and "Unloving" website, as you have accused me of being.

And, as for your remark about people being worthless to God, let me give you a little lesson in what the greek word for "Loved" means in John 3;16. "For God so (Loved) the world that He gave His Only Begotten Son..." The greek word for "Loved" is (Agapao). It's meaning is... "Of Persons-- to welcome, to entertain, to be (Fond Of), to Love Dearly." I looked up the meaning of "fond" and found it to mean "Highly Prized, Highly (Valued)." So, by Jesus' own words, discovered in the greek, we find that God was (Fond Of) the (Persons) of this world. He considers them "Highly Prized, Highly Valuable".

So, I don't care what anyone says, God does Not think that people are worthless. So, that website got it all wrong. If God really thought people are worthless then why didn't Jesus make that clear in John 3;16? He did make something clear however,... the total opposite.

And, as for being led by the Holy Spirit,... how do you know that I am not being led? Are you assuming that I am not, simply because I see nothing wrong in choosing to go and see the movie? You made the statement that to "Choose" to go and see the movie is wrong. Acts 15;40 shows Paul making a "Choice". He (Chose) Silas. It did not say that Holy Spirit chose him, or even that he (Prayed) about it. This choice was made through a bitter arguement, yet you don't find Paul being condemned because of it. Acts 6;5 shows that (They) chose Steven. So, clearly God allows us to make choices in some things.

Now for your question "Have you been (Called) to go see Episode 3, or are you just doing it to please yourself?". First off, I don't even like the Star Wars movies. But, if I go to see Episode 3, I am doing so to have some pleasure. If however the Lord wants be to abstain from seeing it He will let me know, and I will. As of yet He has not. So, if I don't get a No from Him, I feel free to choose to see it or not to see it. And, that (choice) is Not a "Sin".

You have made the mistake in thinking that God cannot work through (Our) choices. The scriptures I have provided show otherwise. There really are certain things that God (Wants) us to make choices on. He doesn't always want us coming to Him for every decision. That is why in 1st Corinthians 7, Paul made it clear numerous times that the advice he was giving was (from him) and not the Lord. That's not to say that he made the decision without praying about it first, but then again he never said that he prayed about it at all. The interpretation is left entirely up to the reader, otherwise God would have made it clear either way.

As I have stated all along, I have no problem with people fasting the film. It is the way that the website was composed that I have a problem with. It is composed in a way that robs people of the choice made in good conscience to see it. I don't have much problem with your theology. It's just that the website in question needs to be redone in parts, so as to not be so manipulative in some parts, and downright cruel in others.

 

[ndp]

Well, I don't think a detailed reply to that message is really necessary. It speaks for itself quite well enough.

2 Tim 3:1 But mark this: There will be terrible times in the last days.
2 Tim 3:2 People will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boastful, proud, abusive, disobedient to their parents, ungrateful, unholy,
2 Tim 3:3 without love, unforgiving, slanderous, without self-control, brutal, not lovers of the good,
2 Tim 3:4 treacherous, rash, conceited, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God--
2 Tim 3:5 having a form of godliness but denying its power. Have nothing to do with them.

--ndp

 

[JoelW]

...

Yes you are right. My last post was quite long, and I apologize for that. I honestly didn't think it would be that long. I will pay more attention next time

I agree with your post about 2nd Timothy. But, the point is not to try and condemn another person's walk with Christ. The point is that we both should be humble enough to recognize where we went wrong. This arguement would have not continued for so long had we both not been too proud to just let it rest.

And, I do apologize for letting it continue. I should have just backed off, but I didn't.

That is not to say that I think I was wrong with my conclusions about that website. But, I was wrong to take it so personally.

Let's just bury the hatchet okay. Christians should not be warring with one another when we already have an enemy out for us both.

God bless you much

 

[JoelW]

...

I want to make a few things clear so that everybody will understand where I am coming from. Ndp is absolutely right about consulting the Lord for decisions. I don't want anybody getting the impression that I am advocating leaving God out of your decision-making processes.

The point that I was trying to make is that God shows us a great deal of respect when He allows us to make certain choices on our own. Paul's statements in 1st Corinthians 7 about giving advice that the Lord did not specifically tell him shows that God wants us to understand that there are certain things He will not tell us to do, but we have to decide for ourselves. That is (Not) to say that Paul was arrogant for making the decision to give advice without the Lord's direct guidance. For all any of us knows Paul could have prayed for days, seeking an answer to give the Corinthian Christians.

But ultimately, you have Paul confessing that the advice he was giving was from (Him) and not the Lord. That says a great deal about how God sees us. He wants us to know that He desires to trust us. He wants us to know that He will not intervene in every choice that comes to us to make, but that in some decisions He will trust us to make the right one.

Again, that is not to say that it is alright to leave God completely out of it. We should not be dis-respectful of Him. So, I whole-heartedly agree with ndp on that. And, I apologize for making it sound any other way.

 

[peter33]

lol the title of this thread made me laugh.