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Stop prophesying what jesus couldn't even know

bodhitharta

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Jesus said he did not know the Hour of his return, that only His Father knew and yet we get tons of failed prophecies including the first of the failed prophecies starting with Jesus although he did admit he did not know but look at the list:

Failed prophecies:
About 30 CE: The Christian Scriptures (New Testament), when interpreted literally, appear to record many predictions by Jeshua of Nazareth (Jesus Christ) that God's Kingdom would arrive within a very short period, or was actually in the process of arriving. For example, Jesus is recorded as saying in Matthew 16:28: "...there shall be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom." In Matthew 24:34, Yeshua is recorded as saying: "...This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled." Since the life expectancy in those days was little over 30 years, Jesus appears to have predicted his second coming sometime during the 1st century CE. It didn't happen. More details.
About 60 CE: Interpreting the Epistles of Paul of Tarsus literally, his writings seem to imply that Jesus would return and usher in a rapture during the lifetime of persons who were living in the middle of the 1st century. More details.
About 90 CE: Saint Clement 1 predicted that the world end would occur at any moment.
2nd Century CE: Prophets and Prophetesses of the Montanist movement predicted that Jesus would return sometime during their lifetime and establish the New Jerusalem in the city of Pepuza in Asia Minor.
365 CE: A man by the name of Hilary of Poitiers, announced that the end would happen that year. It didn't.
375 to 400 CE: Saint Martin of Tours, a student of Hilary, was convinced that the end would happen sometime before 400 CE.
500 CE: This was the first year-with-a-nice-round-number-panic. The antipope Hippolytus and an earlier Christian academic Sextus Julius Africanus had predicted Armageddon at about this year.
968 CE: An eclipse was interpreted as a prelude to the end of the world by the army of the German emperor Otto III.
992: Good Friday coincided with the Feast of the Annunciation; this had long been believed to be the event that would bring forth the Antichrist, and thus the end-times events foretold in the book of Revelation. Records from Germany report that a new sun rose in the north and that as many as 3 suns and 3 moons were fighting. There does not appear to be independent verification of this remarkable event.
1000-JAN-1: Many Christians in Europe had predicted the end of the world on this date. As the date approached, Christian armies waged war against some of the Pagan countries in Northern Europe. The motivation was to convert them all to Christianity, by force if necessary, before Christ returned in the year 1000. Meanwhile, some Christians had given their possessions to the Church in anticipation of the end. Fortunately, the level of education was so low that many citizens were unaware of the year. They did not know enough to be afraid. Otherwise, the panic might have been far worse than it was. Unfortunately, when Jesus did not appear, the church did not return the gifts. Serious criticism of the Church followed. The Church reacted by exterminating some heretics. Agitation settled down quickly.
1000-MAY: The body of Charlemagne was disinterred on Pentecost. A legend had arisen that an emperor would rise from his sleep to fight the Antichrist.
1005-1006: A terrible famine throughout Europe was seen as a sign of the nearness of the end.
1033: Some believed this to be the 1000th anniversary of the death and resurrection of Jesus. His second coming was anticipated. Jesus' actual date of execution is unknown, but is believed to be in the range of 27 to 33 CE.
1147: Gerard of Poehlde decided that the millennium had actually started in 306 CE during Constantine's reign. Thus, the world end was expected in 1306 CE.
1179: John of Toledo predicted the end of the world during 1186. This estimate was based on the alignment of many planets.
1205: Joachim of Fiore predicted in 1190 that the Antichrist was already in the world, and that King Richard of England would defeat him. The Millennium would then begin, sometime before 1205.
1284: Pope Innocent III computed this date by adding 666 years onto the date the Islam was founded.
1346 and later: The black plague spread across Europe, killing one third of the population. This was seen as the prelude to an immediate end of the world. Unfortunately, the Christians had previously killed a many of the cats, fearing that they might be familiars of Witches. The fewer the cats, the more the rats. It was the rat fleas that spread the black plague.
1496: This was approximately 1500 years after the birth of Jesus. Some mystics in the 15th century predicted that the millennium would begin during this year.
1524: Many astrologers predicted the imminent end of the world due to a world wide flood. They obviously had not read the Genesis story of the rainbow.
1533: Melchior Hoffman predicted that Jesus' return would happen a millennium and a half after the nominal date of his execution, in 1533. The New Jerusalem was expected to be established in Strasbourg, Germany. He was arrested and died in a Strasbourg jail.
1669: The Old Believers in Russia believed that the end of the world would occur in this year. 20 thousand burned themselves to death between 1669 and 1690 to protect themselves from the Antichrist.
1689: Benjamin Keach, a 17th century Baptist, predicted the end of the world for this year.
1736: British theologian and mathematician William Whitson predicted a great flood similar to Noah's for OCT-13 of this year.
1792: This was the date of the end of the world calculated by some believers in the Shaker movement.
1794: Charles Wesley, one of the founders of Methodism, thought Doomsday would be in this year.
1830: Margaret McDonald, a Christian prophetess, predicted that Robert Owen would be the Antichrist. Owen helped found New Harmony, IN.
1832?: Joseph Smith (1805-1844) was the founder of the Church of Christ, which became the Restorationist movement after many schisms. It now includes The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints -- a.k.a. the Mormons, and about a hundred other denominations and sects. He heard a voice while praying. He wrote, in Doctrines and Covenants section 130:

14: "I was once praying very earnestly to know the time of the coming of the Son of Man, when I heard a voice repeat the following:"

15: "Joseph, my son, if thou livest until thou art eighty-five years old, thou shalt see the face of the Son of Man; therefore let this suffice, and trouble me no more on this matter."

16: "I was left thus, without being able to decide whether this coming referred to the beginning of the millennium or to some previous appearing, or whether I should die and thus see his face."

17: "I believe the coming of the Son of Man will not be any sooner than that time." 14
The year in which this event occurred is not recorded. However, one commentator suggested 1832 or earlier. 16 Smith is later recorded as having said:
"I prophesy in the name of the Lord God, and let it be written--the Son of Man will not come in the clouds of heaven till I am eighty-five years old." 17

Smith would have reached the age of 85 during 1890. Unfortunately, by that year, Smith had been dead for almost a half century, having been assassinated by a mob. Note that his prophecy is ambiguous. It can be interpreted that:

Jesus would return during 1890 (which did not materialize) or that
1890 would pass without Jesus' return (which did come to pass).

1843-MAR-21: William Miller, founder of the Millerite movement, predicted that Jesus would come on this date. A very large number of Christians accepted his prophecy.
1844-OCT-22: When Jesus did not return, Miller predicted this new date. In an event which is now called "The Great Disappointment," many Christians sold their property and possessions, quit their jobs and prepared themselves for the second coming. Nothing happened; the day came and went without incident.
1850: Ellen White, founder of the Seven Day Adventists movement, made many predictions of the timing of the end of the world. All failed. On 1850-JUN-27 she prophesized that only a few months remained before the end. She wrote: "My accompanying angel said, 'Time is almost finished. Get ready, get ready, get ready.' ...now time is almost finished...and what we have been years learning, they will have to learn in a few months." 10
1856 or later: At Ellen White's last prediction, she said that she was shown in a vision the fate of believers who attended the 1856 SDA conference. She wrote "I was shown the company present at the Conference. Said the angel: 'Some food for worms, some subjects of the seven last plagues, some will be alive and remain upon the earth to be translated at the coming of Jesus." 11 That is, some of the attendees would die of normal diseases; some would die from plagues at the last days, others would still be alive when Jesus came. "By the early 1900s all those who attended the conference had passed away, leaving the Church with the dilemma of trying to figure out how to explain away such a prominent prophetic failure." 12
1891: Mother Shipton, a 16th century mystic predicted the end of the world: "...The world to an end shall come; in eighteen hundred and eighty-one."
1891 or before: On 1835-FEB-14, Joseph Smith, the founder of the Mormon church, attended a meeting of church leaders. He said that the meeting had been called because God had commanded it. He announced that Jesus would return within 56 years -- i.e. before 1891-FEB-15. (History of the Church 2:182)
1988-MAY: A 1981 movie titled "The man who saw tomorrow" described some of Nostradamus predictions. Massive earthquakes were predicted for San Francisco and Los Angeles.
1988-OCT-11: Edgar Whisenaut, a NASA scientist, had published the book "88 Reasons why the Rapture will Occur in 1988." It sold over 4 million copies.
About 1990: Peter Ruckman concluded from his analysis of the Bible that the rapture would come within a few years of 1990.


ALL COMPLETELY WRONG! We should really give it up and worship God Almighty and always be ready.
 
bodhitharta said:
Jesus said he did not know the Hour of his return, that only His Father knew and yet we get tons of failed prophecies including the first of the failed prophecies starting with Jesus although he did admit he did not know but look at the list:

Failed prophecies:
About 30 CE: The Christian Scriptures (New Testament), when interpreted literally, appear to record many predictions by Jeshua of Nazareth (Jesus Christ) that God's Kingdom would arrive within a very short period, or was actually in the process of arriving. For example, Jesus is recorded as saying in Matthew 16:28: "...there shall be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom." In Matthew 24:34, Yeshua is recorded as saying: "...This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled." Since the life expectancy in those days was little over 30 years, Jesus appears to have predicted his second coming sometime during the 1st century CE. It didn't happen. More details.
About 60 CE: Interpreting the Epistles of Paul of Tarsus literally, his writings seem to imply that Jesus would return and usher in a rapture during the lifetime of persons who were living in the middle of the 1st century. More details.

.
about the first comment here, Gods kingdom arriving was not about the second coming. It was about the kingdom of God coming and it was coming when Jesus walked with them it was literally happening. Jesus told them that His kingdom is within them, and that His kingdom comes not with observation. Everyone that Jesus brought the gospel of the kingdom to had the kingdom of God come unto them and everyone that believed recieved the kingdom.- also pauls writings to not infer that it would happen in their life time what scriptures did you think did this?

Also Jesus not knowing the hour does not mean we cannot know the generation and the season. We may not know the exact day on a calender but we are given signs by him to see so we will know when the time is coming.
 
bodhitharta said:
About 30 CE: The Christian Scriptures (New Testament), when interpreted literally, appear to record many predictions by Jeshua of Nazareth (Jesus Christ) that God's Kingdom would arrive within a very short period, or was actually in the process of arriving. For example, Jesus is recorded as saying in Matthew 16:28: "...there shall be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom."
True, but Jesus does not "come in His Kingdom when He returns - He comes into His kingdom when He wins the victory on the Cross - He is already a King, He became one 2000 years ago.

So his statement was indeed correcltly prophetic. There were indeed those who "did not taste death" until they had witnessed the resurrection.

bodhitharta said:
In Matthew 24:34, Yeshua is recorded as saying: "...This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled." Since the life expectancy in those days was little over 30 years, Jesus appears to have predicted his second coming sometime during the 1st century CE. It didn't happen. More details.
As per my previous point, and as per many posts in other recent threads, in Matthew 24, Jesus is not talking about his "coming" in the sense of a 2nd coming - He is referring to His "royal coming" - His enthronement as King. And that took place back in the first century.

So, yet again, Jesus' prophecy came true - the generation He was speaking to did indeed witness all the things He described.
 
GodspromisesRyes said:
.....Gods kingdom arriving was not about the second coming. It was about the kingdom of God coming and it was coming when Jesus walked with them it was literally happening...
I entirely agree.
 
We may not know the hour but many do know the season.......
 
1Th 5:4 But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief:

That day will only overtake those who are in darkness , like a thief.
 
As for:

Matthew 16:28: "...there shall be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom."

Remember Jesus said His kingdom was not of this world? Did not Stephen see Jesus coming into His kingdom (not of this world) when he saw Jesus standing at the right hand of Power?

Jesus was also talking about His ascension, the son of man coming into His kingdom, which is not of this world.

Most prophesies were two fold, one for the current generation when they destroyed Jerusalem. And it is reflected as a distant foresahdow of the judgement of those in New Jerusalem, when the angels mark those who mourn for Jerusalem and destroys the others (war in heaven) when the fallen angels, the residents of heaven are kicked out of heaven.

The natural foreshadows the spiritual. 40 years passed for Jerusalem to be destroyed, 40 Jubilees (2000 years) for the day of the Lord, the day of judgement...

In the bible interpretation, it's not one thing or another but one thing AND another. If we don't look at it this way we make God a liar on all fronts.

So if some scriptures seem to contradict themselves, reason the word to include both as true as both are from God.
 
MMarc said:
As for:

Matthew 16:28: "...there shall be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom."

Remember Jesus said His kingdom was not of this world? Did not Stephen see Jesus coming into His kingdom (not of this world) when he saw Jesus standing at the right hand of Power?
While I do not necessarily disagree with your comment on Stephen, I politely suggest that you are not in line with the scriptural picture if you claim Jesus' kingdom is not "of this world", at least if you mean that Jesus is not presently king of this present material world.

From John 18:

Pilate then went back inside the palace, summoned Jesus and asked him, "Are you the king of the Jews?" 34"Is that your own idea," Jesus asked, "or did others talk to you about me?"
35"Am I a Jew?" Pilate replied. "It was your people and your chief priests who handed you over to me. What is it you have done?" 36Jesus said, "My kingdom is not of this world. If it were, my servants would fight to prevent my arrest by the Jews. But now my kingdom is from another place."


In verse 36, Jesus seems to be saying "My kingdom has nothing to do with earthly kingdoms, so there is no 'political' dimension to my kingdom".

As it turns out, there is a huge translation issue here. Here is the rendering of verse 36 as per the NET Bible:

Jesus replied, “My kingdom is not from this world. If my kingdom were from this world, my servants would be fighting to keep me from being 1 handed over 2 to the Jewish authorities. 3 But as it is, my kingdom is not from here

The NET version is, my sources indicate, true to the original Greek. The greek word that is rendered “from†(above in the bolded and underlined cases) has the following definition:

“a primary preposition denoting origin (the point whence action or motion proceeds), from, out (of place, time, or cause; literal or figurative; direct or remote)â€Â

When the word is used properly, we see that the “not of this world†reading is misleading. The intended meaning is that the Kingdom that has been brought to earth is from Heaven - that is, Heaven is the point of origin for the Kingdom that has been initiated.

Jesus is a King. Jesus' kingdom, while not from this world, is rather clearly for this world.
 
MMarc said:
Most prophesies were two fold, one for the current generation when they destroyed Jerusalem. And it is reflected as a distant foresahdow of the judgement of those in New Jerusalem, when the angels mark those who mourn for Jerusalem and destroys the others (war in heaven) when the fallen angels, the residents of heaven are kicked out of heaven.
I am open to this possibility. However, a competing theory is that events in heaven run "in parallel" to event on earth.

One proponent of this view is NT Wright, who argues as follows in respect to material in the book of Revelation:

chapters 4 and 5, where John the Seer is summoned to become for a while a spectator at the heavenly court, watching as the whole creation pours out its ceaseless praise before its creator. This is not a vision of the ultimate future  that comes in chapters 21 and 22  but of the heavenly dimension of present reality. When John is told that he will be shown “what must take place after this†(4:1), this does not mean that chapters 4 and 5 themselves are a vision of the future; they are a vision of the throne room, where ceaseless worship is made, within which the vision of the future is to be vouchsafed to the seer as the sealed scroll (5:1) is gradually unsealed. It seems in 4:1-2 that “coming up to heaven†and “being in the Spirit†are functionally equivalent; heaven and earth are the interlocking spheres of God’s single creation, and when John is “in the spirit,†he is suddenly open to and aware of the heavenly dimension of what we call ordinary life

I am not sure if this is relevant to your specific comment, but I put it on the table for consideration.
 
There is a difference between prophesying & educating yourself on the signs.


Christ became mad at his own disciples because they were able to determine the signs of the weather better then his own second coming. I teach people to learn the signs of Christ's return with the objective of showing them prophecy fulfilled both past and present. The idea is to convince a nonbeliever the bible is true. I also talk about gods love and the gospel of Jesus Christ. .

Does Christ not command us to watch the signs Matt 24:42 ??

Why did he give the dream to Daniel then ?
 
Drew said:
MMarc said:
As for:

Matthew 16:28: "...there shall be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom."

Remember Jesus said His kingdom was not of this world? Did not Stephen see Jesus coming into His kingdom (not of this world) when he saw Jesus standing at the right hand of Power?
While I do not necessarily disagree with your comment on Stephen, I politely suggest that you are not in line with the scriptural picture if you claim Jesus' kingdom is not "of this world", at least if you mean that Jesus is not presently king of this present material world.

From John 18:

Pilate then went back inside the palace, summoned Jesus and asked him, "Are you the king of the Jews?" 34"Is that your own idea," Jesus asked, "or did others talk to you about me?"
35"Am I a Jew?" Pilate replied. "It was your people and your chief priests who handed you over to me. What is it you have done?" 36Jesus said, "My kingdom is not of this world. If it were, my servants would fight to prevent my arrest by the Jews. But now my kingdom is from another place."


In verse 36, Jesus seems to be saying "My kingdom has nothing to do with earthly kingdoms, so there is no 'political' dimension to my kingdom".

As it turns out, there is a huge translation issue here. Here is the rendering of verse 36 as per the NET Bible:

Jesus replied, “My kingdom is not from this world. If my kingdom were from this world, my servants would be fighting to keep me from being 1 handed over 2 to the Jewish authorities. 3 But as it is, my kingdom is not from here

The NET version is, my sources indicate, true to the original Greek. The greek word that is rendered “from†(above in the bolded and underlined cases) has the following definition:

“a primary preposition denoting origin (the point whence action or motion proceeds), from, out (of place, time, or cause; literal or figurative; direct or remote)â€Â

When the word is used properly, we see that the “not of this world†reading is misleading. The intended meaning is that the Kingdom that has been brought to earth is from Heaven - that is, Heaven is the point of origin for the Kingdom that has been initiated.

Jesus is a King. Jesus' kingdom, while not from this world, is rather clearly for this world.

Thanks for that I should have been more clear. But the fact remained His true Kingdom at that time was not of that world, hence why those who stood there would not taste death until they saw Jesus enter in His Kingdom.

Luke 9

11 Now as they heard these things, He spoke another parable, because He was near Jerusalem and because they thought the kingdom of God would appear immediately. 12 Therefore He said: “A certain nobleman went into a far country to receive for himself a kingdom and to return. 13 So he called ten of his servants, delivered to them ten minas, and said to them, ‘Do business till I come.’ 14 But his citizens hated him, and sent a delegation after him, saying, ‘We will not have this man to reign over us.’
15 “And so it was that when he returned, having received the kingdom and to return (...)

That's the Kingdom Jesus went to go get for us so that after the resurrection we will be reconciled with Jesus. John 14

2 In My Father’s house are many mansions;[a] if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. 3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and receive you to Myself; that wher I am, there you may be also. 4 And where I go you know, and the way you know.â€Â
 
MMarc said:
Thanks for that I should have been more clear. But the fact remained His true Kingdom at that time was not of that world, hence why those who stood there would not taste death until they saw Jesus enter in His Kingdom.
I disagree with your position on the matter of Jesus' kingship. Jesus became a king 2000 years. And He came into His kingdom on the cross. So, indeed, His statement was true - there were indeed those who did not taste death till Jesus entered His Kingship.

Here in Mark 10, James and John ask something of Jesus:

James and John, the two sons of Zebedee, came up to Jesus, saying, "Teacher, we want You to do for us whatever we ask of You." 36And He said to them, "What do you want Me to do for you?" 37They said to Him, "Grant that we (AH)may sit, one on Your right and one on Your left, in Your glory."

What are they asking? They expect that Jesus is going to Jerusalem to be enthroned as King – despite what Jesus has told them, they have not come to terms that Jesus is going to Jerusalem to die. What is Jesus’ answer?

But Jesus said to them, "You do not know what you are asking. Are you able (AI)to drink the cup that I drink, or (AJ)to be baptized with the baptism with which I am baptized?" 39They said to Him, "We are able." And Jesus said to them, "The cup that I drink (AK)you shall drink; and you shall be baptized with the baptism with which I am baptized. 40"But to sit on My right or on My left, this is not Mine to give; (AL)but it is for those for whom it has been prepared."

Jesus is cryptically telling them that He comes into his Kingship on the cross and those who will be on his left and right will be the two brigands that are crucified with him. That, of course, was why Jesus tells James and John that they do not know what they are asking.

I believe that there are many other scriptural arguments that conclusively show that Jesus became King of this very world more than 2000 years ago.
 
MMarc said:
Luke 19

11 Now as they heard these things, He spoke another parable, because He was near Jerusalem and because they thought the kingdom of God would appear immediately. 12 Therefore He said: “A certain nobleman went into a far country to receive for himself a kingdom and to return. 13 So he called ten of his servants, delivered to them ten minas, and said to them, ‘Do business till I come.’ 14 But his citizens hated him, and sent a delegation after him, saying, ‘We will not have this man to reign over us.’
15 “And so it was that when he returned, having received the kingdom and to return (...)

I think you have the timing wrong. You think that the return refers to the 2nd coming, and so you conclude that Jesus is not yet king of this world.

I suggest, but will not argue the point in this post, that Jesus is talking about the history of God and Israel. The command "do business until I come" is not a command given by Jesus before He leaves, only to return later, it is God's commands to Israel (in the past) to fulfill their covenant obligations. Remember the exile - God has "left" Israel and promised to return.

Jesus's first coming - 2000 years ago - is the promised return. And he is now asking Israel to give acocunt for her covenant behaviour.
 
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