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Bible Study Struggling with Genesis 2:10 and 2:7...where is the Garden?

Hi everyone,

I have been studying Genesis very in-depth for months now asking "exactly where is the Garden" and where is "Eden". I have always accepted what I was taught that it is simply "in" Eden wherever that was/is. Here is the verse:

The Lord God planted a garden toward the east, in Eden; and there He placed the man whom He had formed Genesis 2:7

However, this verse has been bothering me for a while. Do you see the wording of it?

Now a river flowed out of Eden to water the garden; and from there it divided and became four rivers Gen 2:10

Ok, do you see how it says the river flowed "out of" Eden to water the Garden? To me, this means the Garden was NOT in Eden or it would be impossible for it to flow "out of" it to water it. The only way it can flow "out of" Eden is if the garden is not in Eden right?

So, I started to dig into the original words at biblehub.com.

As far as I can tell, the word "in" is not in the original language and man has the freedom to say "in" or "of". The original words is just "Eden".

Thus, could it be that the garden was actually east "of" Eden? That would make more sense trying to reconcile the rivers flowing out of Eden to water the garden.

What do you see?
 
Now a river flowed out of Eden to water the garden; and from there it divided and became four rivers Gen 2:10

My home is in California... the water that flows in to kitchen flows from basement... it also flows from the pipe.. or the well which flows from the mountains... California in in the USA so my water also flows from the USA...
My point we can and do waste time trying to make God's Words and thoughts ours... Wanting so badly to understand with our minds when faith is of the heart/spirit
 
Does God really want us to know where Eden is?
Correct point, Kathi. KOOC, we think we know the location of the Ark and people worship it so much that ridiculous amounts of money are waisted each year buying splinters of wood to place in a special place in their homes because they think it sacred. That is idol worship/sin. Then, look at the millions spent each year to get to Jerusalem to walk in the foot steps of Jesus, the dirt is not sacred and yet it is worshipped, more sin. If we knew, exactly where in the Iraq/Iran area the Garden had been, the folks living there could become millionaires in a heart beat. It is not profitable for us to know everything.
 
Does God really want us to know where Eden is?

That may be an answer that is different for each of us. I guess it is possible for me to go outside God's will on this, but I do find much scripture where he tells us to ask, seek and knock. He seems to be happy when we do that and he rewards those who continue to see him.

My opinion I that he wouldn't tell us things if he didn't want us to ask what they mean. I believe he tells us these "clues" so we will seek him further. That is up to each person if they want to or not. Just asking for thoughts from those who are digging deeper.
 
Correct point, Kathi. KOOC, we think we know the location of the Ark and people worship it so much that ridiculous amounts of money are waisted each year buying splinters of wood to place in a special place in their homes because they think it sacred. That is idol worship/sin. Then, look at the millions spent each year to get to Jerusalem to walk in the foot steps of Jesus, the dirt is not sacred and yet it is worshipped, more sin. If we knew, exactly where in the Iraq/Iran area the Garden had been, the folks living there could become millionaires in a heart beat. It is not profitable for us to know everything.

Amen. The carnal minded believer will always seek after and worship the things he can see, feel touch and prove. I believe "Eden" is not a place in the physical realm of Earth. Whether it is or not isn't the point. I believe we can learn a LOT from the order and placement of things in the hidden realms from what God does reveal to us in his written Word.

This is a VERY exciting process uncovering and unveiling Gods (hidden) mystery in Christ!
 
Correct point, Kathi. KOOC, we think we know the location of the Ark and people worship it so much that ridiculous amounts of money are waisted each year buying splinters of wood to place in a special place in their homes because they think it sacred. That is idol worship/sin. Then, look at the millions spent each year to get to Jerusalem to walk in the foot steps of Jesus, the dirt is not sacred and yet it is worshipped, more sin. If we knew, exactly where in the Iraq/Iran area the Garden had been, the folks living there could become millionaires in a heart beat. It is not profitable for us to know everything.
Yes,and the millions that people have spend trying to find Noah's Ark.Trust God.
 
I hope this helps my friend Kicked. It is from John Gill exposition, used by permission from e-sword.

Genesis 2:8
And the Lord God planted a garden eastward in Eden,.... Or "had planted" (m), for this was not now done after the formation of man, but before; and so the word translated "eastward" may be rendered, as it is by some, "before" (n): for the plain meaning is, that God had planted a garden before he made man, even on the third day, when all herbs, and plants, and trees were produced out of the earth. The whole world was as a garden, in comparison of what it is now since the fall: what then must this spot of ground, this garden be, which was separated and distinguished from the rest, and the more immediate plantation of God, and therefore is called the garden of the Lord, Gen_13:10 and which Plato (o) calls διος κηπος, "Jove's garden?" This garden was planted in the country of Eden, so called very probably from its being a very pleasant and delightful country; and though it is not certain, and cannot be said exactly where it was, yet it seems to be a part of Mesopotamia, since it is more than once mentioned with Haran, which was in that country, 2Ki_19:12 and since it was by the rivers Tigris and Euphrates, when they were become one stream, which ran through this country, and parted again at this garden; and the country there, as Herodotus (p) says, is the most fruitful he ever saw; and it seems to be much better to place it here than in Armenia, where the fountain of these rivers is said to be: so Tournefort (q) thinks it lay in the country, or plain of the three churches (or Ejmiadzit), in Armenia, about twenty French leagues distant from the heads of Euphrates and Araxes, and near as many from the Phasis, a country exceeding pleasant and fruitful. A very learned man (r) is of opinion, that the garden of Eden was in the land of Judea to the east, by the lake of Gennesaret or Tiberias, and the lake of Asphaltites, called the Dead sea, and takes in, in its compass, the famous valley, or the great plain, and the plains of Jericho, and great part of Galilee, and all that tract which Jordan flows by, from Gennesaret to the country of Sodom; and he takes the river Jordan to be יאר עדן, "the river of Eden", from whence it has its name of Jordan; and Gennesaret he interprets as if it was גן שר, "Gansar", the garden of the prince, that is, of Adam, the prince of all mankind. He argues from the situation of the place, and the pleasantness and fruitfulness of it, the balsam of Jericho, and other odoriferous plants that grew there, and what are called the apples of paradise: and it must be owned, that this country abounded with gardens and orchards: it is mentioned in the Jewish Misnah, where the commentators (s) say, it was a country in the land of Israel, in which were many gardens and orchards, that produced excellent fruit; and the fruits of Gennesaret are spoken of in the Talmud (t) as exceeding sweet: and with this agrees the account Josephus (u) gives of it, that it is"wonderful in nature and goodness, and through its fertility refuses no plant; everything is set here; the temper of the air suits with different things; here grow nuts, and more winter fruit; and there palms, which are nourished with heat, and near them figs and olives, which require a softer air--not only it produces apples of different sorts, beyond belief, but long preserves them; and indeed the most excellent of fruit; grapes and figs it furnishes with for ten months, without intermission, and other fruit throughout the whole year, growing old, with them.''And it may be further observed, that it is asked by the Jewish Rabbins, why it is called Genesar? and the answer is, because גניסרים, "the gardens of princes"; these are the kings who have gardens in the midst of it: another reason is given, because it belonged to Naphtali, a portion in the midst of it, as it is said, and of "Naphtali a thousand princes", 1Ch_12:34. (w) And it is worthy of remark, that Strabo calls Jericho, which was within this tract, "the paradise of balsam" (x); and there, and hereabout, as Diodorus Siculus (y), and Justin (z) relate, grew this aromatic plant, and nowhere else; it was not to be found in any other part of the world. And it appears from Scripture, that if the plain of Jordan was not the garden of Eden, it is said to be, "as the garden of the Lord", Gen_13:10 and if the "caph" or "as" is not a note of similitude, but of reality, as it sometimes is, it proves it to be the very place; and the above learned writer takes it to be not comparative, but illative, as giving a reason why it was so well watered, because it was the garden of the Lord: and the Jews have some notion of this, for they say, if that the garden of Eden is in the land of Israel, Bethshean is the door of it, or entrance into it; the gloss gives this reason, because the fruits were sweeter than any other (a); and this was near, at the entrance of the great plain before mentioned; and before which was this place, as Josephus says (b): and if the garden of Eden was in those parts, it may be observed, that where the first Adam first dwelt, and where he sinned and fell, Christ the second Adam frequently was; here he conversed much, taught his doctrines, wrought his miracles; and even here he appeared after his resurrection from the dead. But the opinions of men about this place are very many, and there is scarce any country in the whole world but one or another has placed the garden of Eden in it; nay, some have assigned a place for it out of the earth, in the eighth sphere. Such a garden undoubtedly there was somewhere, and it is said to be placed "eastward", either in the eastern part of the country of Eden, see Gen_4:16 or to the east of the desert where Moses was when he wrote; or to the east of Judea, as Mesopotamia was: and if this garden was in Judea, the place assigned for it by the above learned person, it was in the eastern part of that country; see Num_32:19. This garden was an emblem either of the church of Christ on earth, which is a garden enclosed, surrounded with divine power, and distinguished with divine grace; a small spot in comparison of the world; is of Jehovah's planting, and is his property; and is an Eden to his people, where they enjoy much spiritual pleasure and delight: or however of the place and state of the happiness of the saints in the other world, often called a paradise in allusion to this, Luk_23:43 and which is of God's planting, and therefore called the paradise of God, and is an Eden, where are pleasures for evermore: and this seems to be what the Jews mean when they say (c), that the garden of Eden, or paradise, was created before the world was; which is no other than what Christ says of it in other words, Mat_25:34.

and there he put the man whom he had formed; not as soon as he had planted the garden, but as soon as he had made man; and from hence it is generally concluded, that man was made without the garden, and brought from the place where he was formed, and put into it; and which some say was near Damascus: but be it where it will, it is most probable that it was not far from the garden; though there seems no necessity for supposing him to be made out of it; for the putting him into it may signify the appointing and ordering him to be there, and fixing and settling him in it, for the ends and uses mentioned, see Gen_2:15. (After the global destruction of Noah's flood, it is doubtful that the location of the Garden of Eden could be determined with any degree of certainty today. Ed.)

(m) ויטע "plantaverat", V. L. Vatablus, Piscator, Pareus, Drusius, Cartwright; "ornaverat plantis", Junius & Tremellius. (n) מקדם "a principio", V. L. so Onkelos; "antes vel antequam", same in Fagius, Cartwright. (o) In Symposio, apud Euseb. praepar. Evangel. l. 12. c. 11. p. 584. (p) Clio sive, l. 1. c. 193. (q) Voyage to the Levant, vol. 3. p. 161, 162. (r) Nichol. Abrami Pharus Vet. Test. l. 2. c. 16. p. 56. So Texelius (Phoenix, l. 3. c. 7. sect. 7.) takes it to be in the land of Promise, not far from the Dead sea, or sea of Sodom, and in the country about Jordan; and of the same opinion is Heidegger (Hist. Patriarch. Exerc. 4. sect. 42. p. 15.) (s) Maimon. & Bartenora in Misn. Maaserot, c. 3. sect. 7. (t) T. Bab. Beracot, fol. 44. 1. Erubin, fol. 30. 1. & Pesachim, fol. 8. 2. (u) De Bello Jud. l. 3. c. 9. sect. 8. (w) Aruch in voce גנסר, fol. 37. 1. (x) Geograph. l. 16. p. 525. (y) Bibliothec. l. 19. p. 734. (z) E Trogo, l. 36. c. 3. (a) T. Bab. Erubin, fol. 19. 1. (b) Antiqu. l. 12. c. 8. sect. 5. 1 Maccab. v. 52. (c) T. Bab. Pesachim, fol. 54. 1. Nedarim, fol. 39. 2.
 
Now a river flowed out of Eden to water the garden; and from there it divided and became four rivers Gen 2:10

Ok, do you see how it says the river flowed "out of" Eden to water the Garden? To me, this means the Garden was NOT in Eden or it would be impossible for it to flow "out of" it to water it. The only way it can flow "out of" Eden is if the garden is not in Eden right?

No. It means the river watered the garden prior to flowing out of the garden.

As Genesis 3:23 indicates, the garden was located in Eden.

Genesis 3
23 therefore the Lord God sent him out of the garden of Eden to till the ground from which he was taken.



Why can't the garden be located now?

It was destroyed in the flood.
.
 
One way to look at the garden of Eden is as a safe spiritual state where/when one is in an appropriate personal relationship with God. In this sense Eden or it's garden is not defined by its physical place. Mankind was expelled from this preferred protective relationship when he chose to disobey God and decide for himself what is right or wrong, thereby violating the relationship. Jesus has restored that relationship.
 
That may be an answer that is different for each of us. I guess it is possible for me to go outside God's will on this, but I do find much scripture where he tells us to ask, seek and knock. He seems to be happy when we do that and he rewards those who continue to see him.

My opinion I that he wouldn't tell us things if he didn't want us to ask what they mean. I believe he tells us these "clues" so we will seek him further. That is up to each person if they want to or not. Just asking for thoughts from those who are digging deeper.

Many great men of God have asked these kinds of questions, then they wrote down in commentaries what they had found out . I think being in company with Dr Gill isn't a bad thing.
 
Romans 1:19-20
Examine creation to understand.

The planting Jesus describes is the Word planted in men's hearts. Luke 8:11

The rivers divide at the heart (blood rivers)

Out of the belly flow rivers of living water.

These are but symbols to say that in us is the kingdom ( if we open the door and let him in). The word is not in us till He plants it.

Do not try and start hunting the organs especially. Just the spiritual aspect Sinthesis started.

eddif
 
My home is in California... the water that flows in to kitchen flows from basement... it also flows from the pipe.. or the well which flows from the mountains... California in in the USA so my water also flows from the USA...
My point we can and do waste time trying to make God's Words and thoughts ours... Wanting so badly to understand with our minds when faith is of the heart/spirit
Boy I appreciate several posts lately.
I Corinthians 2:14-16
Says our old mind is turned into the mind of Christ. Our carnal mind can not see the things we need to see, but our renewed mind can.
Philippians 2:5

Philippians 2:4
If we have good water in our pipes, we should want good water in other peoples pipes. In other words: if we repented, accepted Jesus, received power from on high, should we not want others to have the same?

If the water of Eden waters Eden's garden, should not that concept water also water good gardens outside Eden. Adam and Eve could not get to the tree of life to renew their minds, but IMHO we can .

I really believe the great commission allows us to share the gospel ( good news of the kingdom). I found an outside faucet at your home ( metaphorically speaking), and on drinking it helped my mind ( again metaphorically speaking). So if the faucet runs it waters the neighbors garden.


eddif
 
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