subset of prosperity preachers, tbd

[His_nee (Jeff)]

to be determined (tbd) : what subset of prosperity preachers (/preaching?) as a topic is needed and edifying today ?
..
i specify subset, because the topic is potentially humongous in tangents and full flushing out.
..
perhaps it will take or we can benefit from whatever number of posts in the meantime though,
not to be verbose, too many words, but to seek truth and clarification from God's Word.

 

[JLB]

to be determined (tbd) : what subset of prosperity preachers (/preaching?) as a topic is needed and edifying today ?
..
i specify subset, because the topic is potentially humongous in tangents and full flushing out.
..
perhaps it will take or we can benefit from whatever number of posts in the meantime though,
not to be verbose, too many words, but to seek truth and clarification from God's Word.

What part of the prosperity message do you find to be balanced and truthful?


JLB

 

[Gary]

1 Timothy 6
3 If anyone teaches otherwise and does not consent to wholesome words, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which accords with godliness,
4 he is proud, knowing nothing, but is obsessed with disputes and arguments over words, from which come envy, strife, reviling, evil suspicions,
5 useless wranglings of men of corrupt minds and destitute of the truth, who suppose that godliness is a means of gain. From such withdraw yourself.
6 Now godliness with contentment is great gain.
7 For we brought nothing into this world, and it is certain we can carry nothing out.
8 And having food and clothing, with these we shall be content.
9 But those who desire to be rich fall into temptation and a snare, and into many foolish and harmful lusts which drown men in destruction and perdition.
10 For the love of money is a root of all kinds of evil, for which some have strayed from the faith in their greediness, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows.


Titus 1
10 For there are many insubordinate, both idle talkers and deceivers, especially those of the circumcision,
11 whose mouths must be stopped, who subvert whole households, teaching things which they ought not, for the sake of dishonest gain.


2 Peter 2
3 By covetousness they will exploit you with deceptive words; for a long time their judgment has not been idle, and their destruction does not slumber.


Romans 16
18 For those who are such do not serve our Lord Jesus Christ, but their own belly, and by smooth words and flattering speech deceive the hearts of the simple.

.

 

[His_nee (Jeff)]

What part of the prosperity message do you find to be balanced and truthful?

JLB

none of it. ("the prosperity message") = as proclaimed by adherents of earthy, fleshy, worldly seekers(even if they claim to be 'spirit minded' or such).

for another thread, or part of this one?, "the prosperity message" = as proclaimed by apostles is altogether different and wonderful, and is about true life in Christ Jesus, about non-seen, not worldly, values, about clean non-filthy wealth and without using filthy/greedy/hurtful ways of getting it.

 

[JLB]

1 Timothy 6
3 If anyone teaches otherwise and does not consent to wholesome words, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which accords with godliness,
4 he is proud, knowing nothing, but is obsessed with disputes and arguments over words, from which come envy, strife, reviling, evil suspicions,
5 useless wranglings of men of corrupt minds and destitute of the truth, who suppose that godliness is a means of gain. From such withdraw yourself.
6 Now godliness with contentment is great gain.
7 For we brought nothing into this world, and it is certain we can carry nothing out.
8 And having food and clothing, with these we shall be content.
9 But those who desire to be rich fall into temptation and a snare, and into many foolish and harmful lusts which drown men in destruction and perdition.
10 For the love of money is a root of all kinds of evil, for which some have strayed from the faith in their greediness, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows.


Titus 1
10 For there are many insubordinate, both idle talkers and deceivers, especially those of the circumcision,
11 whose mouths must be stopped, who subvert whole households, teaching things which they ought not, for the sake of dishonest gain.

2 Peter 2
3 By covetousness they will exploit you with deceptive words; for a long time their judgment has not been idle, and their destruction does not slumber.


Romans 16
18 For those who are such do not serve our Lord Jesus Christ, but their own belly, and by smooth words and flattering speech deceive the hearts of the simple.

.

Those are great scriptures and should be heeded in the fear of the Lord.

Let's discuss some scriptures that speak to us about being blessed financially, so that we will have an answer for those who are looking to prosper and be in health, ever as their soul prospers.


JLB

 

[Gary]

Let's discuss some scriptures that speak to us about being blessed financially,

I'm listening.
.

 

[Deborah13]

What part of the prosperity message do you find to be balanced and truthful?


JLB

3Jn 1:2 beloved, concerning all things I desire thee to prosper, and to be in health, even as thy soul doth prosper,

 

[JLB]

1 Timothy 6
3 If anyone teaches otherwise and does not consent to wholesome words, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which accords with godliness,
4 he is proud, knowing nothing, but is obsessed with disputes and arguments over words, from which come envy, strife, reviling, evil suspicions,
5 useless wranglings of men of corrupt minds and destitute of the truth, who suppose that godliness is a means of gain. From such withdraw yourself.
6 Now godliness with contentment is great gain.
7 For we brought nothing into this world, and it is certain we can carry nothing out.
8 And having food and clothing, with these we shall be content.
9 But those who desire to be rich fall into temptation and a snare, and into many foolish and harmful lusts which drown men in destruction and perdition.
10 For the love of money is a root of all kinds of evil, for which some have strayed from the faith in their greediness, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows.


Titus 1
10 For there are many insubordinate, both idle talkers and deceivers, especially those of the circumcision,
11 whose mouths must be stopped, who subvert whole households, teaching things which they ought not, for the sake of dishonest gain.

2 Peter 2
3 By covetousness they will exploit you with deceptive words; for a long time their judgment has not been idle, and their destruction does not slumber.


Romans 16
18 For those who are such do not serve our Lord Jesus Christ, but their own belly, and by smooth words and flattering speech deceive the hearts of the simple.

.

Those are great scriptures that certainly need to be heeded in the fear of the Lord.

Could we discuss some scriptures that teach us about prospering and being health even as our soul prospers.


There are some who are called to be givers and stewards of wealth to be distributed to God's people as directed and led by the Holy Spirit.

Let's discuss some of the ministries in the kingdom and how they function.

I will let you choose some scriptures that speak to us of these things.


Thanks JLB

 

[JLB]

3Jn 1:2 beloved, concerning all things I desire thee to prosper, and to be in health, even as thy soul doth prosper,

Thanks Deb, great scripture.

What about some scriptures that show us about ministry functions that would be called to give.


JLB

 

[JLB]

32 Now the multitude of those who believed were of one heart and one soul; neither did anyone say that any of the things he possessed was his own, but they had all things in common. 33 And with great power the apostles gave witness to the resurrection of the Lord Jesus. And great grace was upon them all. 34 Nor was there anyone among them who lacked; for all who were possessors of lands or houses sold them, and brought the proceeds of the things that were sold, 35 and laid them at the apostles' feet; and they distributed to each as anyone had need. 36 And Joses, who was also named Barnabas by the apostles (which is translated Son of Encouragement), a Levite of the country of Cyprus, 37 having land, sold it, and brought the money and laid it at the apostles' feet. Acts 4:32-37

This effort was initiated and led, as well as watched over by the Holy Spirit, for this is what the Holy Spirit set up as a lifestyle when He was poured out on the day of Pentecost.

All things in common, that none would lack.


Does anyone believe that there are those who are poor and lack anything that they need in Heaven?

This is the Kingdom of God coming to earth, so that "on earth, just as it is in heaven", will be a reality, not just a prayer that we pray and nothing happens.


JLB

 

[Eugene]

to be determined (tbd) : what subset of prosperity preachers (/preaching?) as a topic is needed and edifying today ?
..
i specify subset, because the topic is potentially humongous in tangents and full flushing out.
..
perhaps it will take or we can benefit from whatever number of posts in the meantime though,
not to be verbose, too many words, but to seek truth and clarification from God's Word.

Is it also possible to back your thoughts here with scripture? Thanks.

 

[agua.]

32 Now the multitude of those who believed were of one heart and one soul; neither did anyone say that any of the things he possessed was his own, but they had all things in common. 33 And with great power the apostles gave witness to the resurrection of the Lord Jesus. And great grace was upon them all. 34 Nor was there anyone among them who lacked; for all who were possessors of lands or houses sold them, and brought the proceeds of the things that were sold, 35 and laid them at the apostles' feet; and they distributed to each as anyone had need. 36 And Joses, who was also named Barnabas by the apostles (which is translated Son of Encouragement), a Levite of the country of Cyprus, 37 having land, sold it, and brought the money and laid it at the apostles' feet. Acts 4:32-37

This effort was initiated and led, as well as watched over by the Holy Spirit, for this is what the Holy Spirit set up as a lifestyle when He was poured out on the day of Pentecost.

All things in common, that none would lack.


Does anyone believe that there are those who are poor and lack anything that they need in Heaven?

This is the Kingdom of God coming to earth, so that "on earth, just as it is in heaven", will be a reality, not just a prayer that we pray and nothing happens.


JLB

JLB are you saying this model is something we should all do ie. pool our possessions ?

 

[His_nee (Jeff)]

in acts, this happened spontaneously, joyously, and without fear (and obviously without need or rules to do it).
when this happens again, with Yhwh's people immersed in Yeshua, it is again /still spontaneous, joyous, and without (any) fear, and without rules saying to do it.

 

[reba]

in acts, this happened spontaneously, joyously, and without fear (and obviously without need or rules to do it).
when this happens again, with Yhwh's people immersed in Yeshua, it is again /still spontaneous, joyous, and without (any) fear, and without rules saying to do it.

no rules?
3 But Peter said, Ananias, why hath Satan filled thine heart to lie to the Holy Ghost, and to keep back part of the price of the land?

4 Whiles it remained, was it not thine own? and after it was sold, was it not in thine own power? why hast thou conceived this thing in thine heart? thou hast not lied unto men, but unto God.

 

[His_nee (Jeff)]

look again. (rules are important, so i couldn't say "no rules" ) .
.
.
.edit next/this(28th) morning, added>
i.e. they did not share everything out of rules nor because of rules to do so.
they shared everything spontaneously, graciously, fully freely... ... ...

sorrowful note that even though in Scripture God gives specific and direct rules to take care of the poor (widow and orphan AND working poor) generously, in the Old and in the New Testament , (inserted p.s. NOT willy-nilly, not couch potatoes!, not like welfare today in the usa/elsewhere?) ....

even with God's directions, the 'church' today does not obey, freely or otherwise, and in fact teaches against what Scripture says and their practices directly oppress the poor, and/or ignore them,
in many places and ways. ... ...

 

[JLB]

JLB are you saying this model is something we should all do ie. pool our possessions ?

Those who had lands and houses sold them and brought the proceeds...

This scripture is not referring to wage earners but people of wealth, using there wealth for a God given purpose.

The end result: Nor was there anyone among them who lacked; they distributed to each as anyone had need.

How important was this operation to the Holy Spirit?

I Think the Christian Community, where people look after one another and share with each other like a family is the model that pleases God and is done in heaven.

I don't think God wants any of His children to be without food, water and shelter.

I find this model in the wilderness, where the Cloud by day and Fire by night was upon them, and none lacked.

I believe in an outpouring or revival setting this type of life style still happens, maybe not so much in America, but more so in third world countries.

There are basically two forms of lifestyle in the world today; The system and the community.


JLB

 

[for_his_glory]

Most of these types of preaching on prosperity, which I have sat under, but no more, are usually a blab it and grab it doctrine that is so far from truth as if it was true we would all be rich and I know I'm not rich monetarily as we live paycheck to paycheck, but do live comfortably. Our prosperity from God is His blessings of health and our welfare that we handle well that which we do have and not squander it away. God has opened the doors for us to go and work to make a living for our self and our families and it's through what we have that we can help meet the needs of others. Even if you can only afford change in a can to help feed the needy or help with hospital expenses of another this is giving from your heart. Never be hardhearted towards anyone as you never know who it is you are helping.

Jesus said if he can trust us with a little he will give us much. This doesn't mean he will give us money on a silver platter, it means Gods blessings will be greater in our life as we increase with what we have we can help others even more. We should never lend expecting to get it back, but always give from the heart. Prosperity is not always about money, but about Gods blessings and we blessing others.


Deu 15:7 If there be among you a poor man of one of thy brethren within any of thy gates in thy land which the LORD thy God giveth thee, thou shalt not harden thine heart, nor shut thine hand from thy poor brother:
Deu 15:8 But thou shalt open thine hand wide unto him, and shalt surely lend him sufficient for his need, in that which he wanteth.
Deu 15:9 Beware that there be not a thought in thy wicked heart, saying, The seventh year, the year of release, is at hand; and thine eye be evil against thy poor brother, and thou givest him nought; and he cry unto the LORD against thee, and it be sin unto thee.
Deu 15:10 Thou shalt surely give him, and thine heart shall not be grieved when thou givest unto him: because that for this thing the LORD thy God shall bless thee in all thy works, and in all that thou puttest thine hand unto.
Deu 15:11 For the poor shall never cease out of the land: therefore I command thee, saying, Thou shalt open thine hand wide unto thy brother, to thy poor, and to thy needy, in thy land.

Luke 16:10 He that is faithful in that which is least is faithful also in much: and he that is unjust in the least is unjust also in much.

Php 4:19 But my God shall supply all your need according to his riches in glory by Christ Jesus.